Clarification of badge location on ABUs

[Luis R. Ramos]

The expectations for a Ground Team include the 4 rs.

A shoe-shine kit is still required gear for GTMs, that's ridiculous.... No one expects someone to be starched and clean after a real day in a real field in 85 weather plus FLWG humidity.

After a day in the field no expectation to be starched and clean.

But remember the shoe shine kit is included in the 5-day pack. Not in the 24-hour pack. 

Or do you want your ground team to stay, in the case of a five-day mission dirty, and to begin each day looking worse?

If you think including a shoe shine kit in your gear is ridiculous and you rant against that, remember that part of your gear also includes taking an extra uniform. Why not rant against that also?

Clean uniform with lousy looking boots? To me that is ridiculous...

[RNOfficer]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

Starch makes a cotton uniform non-breathable, which defeats the purpose of a field uniform.

I was in the USMC, which is somewhat known for its concern for uniform sharpness. It was a court-martial offense to starch or dry clean the utility uniform.

[jdh]

You can look sharp without starching a crease that'll almost cut you into a UTILITY uniform.  Most of this was started by staff/office folks that were told they HAD to wear BDUs and they decided to starch them to make it as sharp as their blues.  Over time, it became an unwritten standard and those of us that were actually working in those uniforms would get looked down on (or deity forbid actually counseled) about our appearance.  I would press my BDUs everytime they came out of the wash (and sometimes in the middle of the week), but I wasn't going to starch a uniform I was going to take into the field.  It made no sense.  THAT'S why Big Blue decided to make the no starch rule (well...that and the fact that if you get hit by an infrared illuminator, you'll light up like a beacon under night vision gear).

I'm already starting to see it in the AD world.  There's a LT I see around base occasionally that has the collar and lapels of his ABUs sewn down.  IMHO, it just looks ridiculous on a utility uniform. You don't have to look like a duffel bag -- take pride in the uniform, but you don't have to make the pants stand up by themselves either.

What is missed in a CAP context is that for many members, especially cadets, the field uniform is the one they wear the most,
most likely to be largely ignored by mom and dad, left in a lump on the bedroom floor, and for many, many members never worn in any environment
outside a regular meeting or encampment.

Worn in a meeting-only context, a properly ironed set of BDUs can probably be worn 2-3 times per washing, ironing, cleaners, etc.
for most members that's possibly a month or two if dress uniforms and PT are accounted for?  Hardly the herculean of maintenance
which seems a Rubicon.

As to even bringing up the idea of IR luminescence in a CAP context, whether starch, laundry detergent, or mil-spec vs. other vendor,
that's totally irrelevant.

A shoe-shine kit is still required gear for GTMs, that's ridiculous, and shows how much CAP tries to emulate a military model
over common sense when copy/pasting curriculum.  No one expects someone to be starched and clean after a real day in a
real field in 85 weather plus FLWG humidity.

But there's nothing wrong with CAP members pressing ABUs, BDUs, or CFUs, especially in a public-facing environment,
or a situation like an encampment where you're being judged on appearance.

Field performance bravado and uniform appearance are not mutually exclusive, and those who
portend they are are usually showing other cards as well.

People notice.

The polish protects the boots and help to improve water resistance.

[Eclipse]

The polish protects the boots and help to improve water resistance.

Or you could just buy waterproof boots that don't require polish.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Waterproof boots...

In a dry day when there is no rain it is akin to starching your BDUs...

Retains humidity and heat...

[Eclipse]

Waterproof boots...

In a dry day when there is no rain it is akin to starching your BDUs...

Sympatex disagrees with you.

Water & BBP proof, comfortable on the hottest days.

[DoubleSecret]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

Starch makes a cotton uniform non-breathable, which defeats the purpose of a field uniform.

I was in the USMC, which is somewhat known for its concern for uniform sharpness. It was a court-martial offense to starch or dry clean the utility uniform.

Just curious ... are there any published cases where someone was tried by court-martial for starching or dry cleaning their utility uniform?

[Spaceman3750]

Waterproof boots...

In a dry day when there is no rain it is akin to starching your BDUs...

Retains humidity and heat...

Enter the magic of foot powder...

[PHall]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

Starch makes a cotton uniform non-breathable, which defeats the purpose of a field uniform.

I was in the USMC, which is somewhat known for its concern for uniform sharpness. It was a court-martial offense to starch or dry clean the utility uniform.

Just curious ... are there any published cases where someone was tried by court-martial for starching or dry cleaning their utility uniform?

I doubt very seriously that anybody actually was court-martialled. But I have no doubt who-so-ever that Marines have received NJP, aka Article 15's for this.
Marines hand out NJP like it's candy.

[SarDragon]

The Marines call it "Office Hours", and it's an interesting evolution to participate in as a witness. Much more fun than a Captain's Mast in the same capacity.

[raivo]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if that rule disappears in the next few years and starching ABUs becomes a de facto requirement, the same way it did with the BDU.

[rmutchler]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if that rule disappears in the next few years and starching ABUs becomes a de facto requirement, the same way it did with the BDU.

There is no rule to starch ABUs.  The recommendation from DLATS is to not starch, hot press or dry clean according to the product description

[LSThiker]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if that rule disappears in the next few years and starching ABUs becomes a de facto requirement, the same way it did with the BDU.

There is no rule to starch ABUs.  The recommendation from DLATS is to not starch, hot press or dry clean according to the product description

Yes there is a rule about starching ABUs from the USAF, that is not too:

AFI 36-2903, Chapter 5.1:

Do not starch or hot  press  the  ABU.  Light  ironing  and  center  creasing  of  enlisted  chevrons  is  authorized;  however,  repeated  hot  pressing  or  heavy  ironing  will  accelerate  the  overall  wear  of  the  fabric.

However, there was also a no starching the BDUs but that simply disappeared over time even though the product care tag kept saying do not starch the BDUs. 

[Eclipse]

The tags say what they say, so do the AFIs, but "accelerating the wear" isn't relevent in a CAP context, either.

Not when the average member wears them maybe 8 hours a month on the high side and a couple weeks in the year.

[LSThiker]

The tags say what they say, so do the AFIs, but "accelerating the wear" isn't relevent in a CAP context, either.

Not when the average member wears them maybe 8 hours a month on the high side and a couple weeks in the year.

No one said it was.  The topic shifted to NJP and rules for starching.

[stillamarine]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

Starch makes a cotton uniform non-breathable, which defeats the purpose of a field uniform.

I was in the USMC, which is somewhat known for its concern for uniform sharpness. It was a court-martial offense to starch or dry clean the utility uniform.

Since when? When I was in we starched our cammies. Heavily. You could always tell someone that had been to Oki by the heavy amounts of starch that Mamasan used that lasted for years. Hell I have a pair now, almost 20 years later that if I ironed them they'd probably stand up on their own.

[stillamarine]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

Starch makes a cotton uniform non-breathable, which defeats the purpose of a field uniform.

I was in the USMC, which is somewhat known for its concern for uniform sharpness. It was a court-martial offense to starch or dry clean the utility uniform.

Just curious ... are there any published cases where someone was tried by court-martial for starching or dry cleaning their utility uniform?

I doubt very seriously that anybody actually was court-martialled. But I have no doubt who-so-ever that Marines have received NJP, aka Article 15's for this.
Marines hand out NJP like it's candy.

Although I agree on the handing out office hours like candy (In my time you weren't a real Marine til you had at least one) but I doubt anyone got it for this reason.

[PHall]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

Starch makes a cotton uniform non-breathable, which defeats the purpose of a field uniform.

I was in the USMC, which is somewhat known for its concern for uniform sharpness. It was a court-martial offense to starch or dry clean the utility uniform.

Just curious ... are there any published cases where someone was tried by court-martial for starching or dry cleaning their utility uniform?

I doubt very seriously that anybody actually was court-martialled. But I have no doubt who-so-ever that Marines have received NJP, aka Article 15's for this.
Marines hand out NJP like it's candy.

Although I agree on the handing out office hours like candy (In my time you weren't a real Marine til you had at least one) but I doubt anyone got it for this reason.

Staff Sergeant and the First Sergeant may have a differing opinion!

[stillamarine]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

Starch makes a cotton uniform non-breathable, which defeats the purpose of a field uniform.

I was in the USMC, which is somewhat known for its concern for uniform sharpness. It was a court-martial offense to starch or dry clean the utility uniform.

Just curious ... are there any published cases where someone was tried by court-martial for starching or dry cleaning their utility uniform?

I doubt very seriously that anybody actually was court-martialled. But I have no doubt who-so-ever that Marines have received NJP, aka Article 15's for this.
Marines hand out NJP like it's candy.

Although I agree on the handing out office hours like candy (In my time you weren't a real Marine til you had at least one) but I doubt anyone got it for this reason.

Staff Sergeant and the First Sergeant may have a differing opinion!

I was a SSGT. There were other ways for me to deal with a mope that didn't have a squared away uniform. And it was taken care of before First Sergeant saw it....

[PHall]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

Starch makes a cotton uniform non-breathable, which defeats the purpose of a field uniform.

I was in the USMC, which is somewhat known for its concern for uniform sharpness. It was a court-martial offense to starch or dry clean the utility uniform.

Just curious ... are there any published cases where someone was tried by court-martial for starching or dry cleaning their utility uniform?

I doubt very seriously that anybody actually was court-martialled. But I have no doubt who-so-ever that Marines have received NJP, aka Article 15's for this.
Marines hand out NJP like it's candy.

Although I agree on the handing out office hours like candy (In my time you weren't a real Marine til you had at least one) but I doubt anyone got it for this reason.

Staff Sergeant and the First Sergeant may have a differing opinion!

I was a SSGT. There were other ways for me to deal with a mope that didn't have a squared away uniform. And it was taken care of before First Sergeant saw it....

I thought that First Sergeants were omnipresent. They saw everything!