Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 24, 2017, 03:21:39 AM
Home Help Login Register
News:

CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Encampments & NCSAs  |  Topic: Sunglasses as contraband
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5  All Print
Author Topic: Sunglasses as contraband  (Read 7359 times)
vorteks
Seasoned Member

Posts: 225

« Reply #40 on: May 16, 2016, 12:14:19 PM »

... not sure what that means, anyway.

I apologize for the lip, all - reading back my posts, it was (unintentionally) present.

No way a teenager doesn't know what trolling means in this day and age.
Logged
jenidlg
Recruit

Posts: 7
Unit: SWR-NM-001

« Reply #41 on: May 16, 2016, 12:48:52 PM »

I think it is important to note that all decisions involving encampments and other CAP activities are reviewed for the safety and health of the cadets, probably before most other things are done.  Issues like these (sunglasses, color of swimsuits) are considered, reviewed and looked at by the people who understand the circumstances involved and have the knowledge and experience to make good decisions (safety officers, wing commanders, past encampment commanders).

As an encampment commander myself this year, I'm slightly frustrated with the amount of time I've had to spend justifying my decisions to cadets.  My instinct is to say, "if you don't like how it's being run, don't come" but the reality is, there will always be people who don't like the rules that are set and we'll always have to spend time explaining ourselves to them.  Welcome to a volunteer organization.   :D
Logged
Unit Commander, WMCS
Cadetter
Forum Regular

Posts: 156

« Reply #42 on: May 16, 2016, 03:56:10 PM »

Not sure why I can't be 15 (or almost 14... well, duh, this is my 3rd encampment, so I can't be 12), varitec. Of course I know what trolling is :P (and have done it in the past)...
Logged
PA Guy
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 709

« Reply #43 on: May 16, 2016, 06:29:01 PM »

Actually, sunglasses do help prevent cataracts, the number one cause of blindness in the world....

From a medical standpoint the typical encampment does not offer enough UV exposure to have any effect on cataract formation.
Logged
Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,525

« Reply #44 on: May 16, 2016, 06:36:13 PM »

PA,

Is not cataract formation cumulative? I thought it was...

1 hour here, 10 hours at the encampment, 5 hours during O-flights... and to say nothing about his home exposure...
Logged

Squadron Administrative Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
Live2Learn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 467

« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2016, 07:10:33 PM »

Now you're really stretching. Sunglasses do NOT, for the most part, protect you from skin cancer, the predominate UV-caused form of cancer. If the encampment head shed says no sunglasses, then no sunglasses.

Sunglasses do, however, reduce the likelihood of long term issues with eye health.  It is a small stretch re: skin cancer, though they do reduce exposure of the skin around the eyes that are difficult to safely slather with sun block.

I think the discussion of $200 or $400 dollar glasses is a red herring.  If the glasses are Rx, end of discussion.  They are medically required. 
Logged
Live2Learn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 467

« Reply #46 on: May 16, 2016, 07:25:13 PM »

PA,

Is not cataract formation cumulative? I thought it was...

1 hour here, 10 hours at the encampment, 5 hours during O-flights... and to say nothing about his home exposure...

Agree.  It is cumulative damage that contributes to cataracts.  At least that's what my ophthalmologist tells me.  As far as "O" flights are concerned, we gain enough altitude to expose our eyes to a lot of UV.  It is possible to sunburn the orbs at 5K and above, and it's not pleasant.  I advise cadets to bring a good pair of sun glasses on every "O" flight. 

That said, the Rx sun glasses are like any other personal item.  It's up to the cadet to keep track of them. 

The NESA photo files are interesting.  Quite a lot of SR members have sun glasses.  What's the rationale for allowing old eyes some protection from the sun, but prohibiting cadets from protecting their long term prospects for good vision?
Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,996

« Reply #47 on: May 16, 2016, 08:13:17 PM »

O Rides, NESA, and just about anything else is NOT encampment, where uniformity and attention to details like packing lists
is an important aspect.
Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Cadetter
Forum Regular

Posts: 156

« Reply #48 on: May 16, 2016, 08:33:52 PM »

Indeed, sir. Although safety is important regardless. (But judgements as to what is safe and what is not differ)
Logged
Майор Хаткевич
200,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,075
Unit: GLR-IL-049

« Reply #49 on: May 16, 2016, 09:03:36 PM »

Indeed, sir. Although safety is important regardless. (But judgements as to what is safe and what is not differ)


Lets see. I'm 26 years, 3 months, and some days old. I've worn sun glasses at encampment zero times in 8 encampments. I've worn sun glasses during my life maybe a few hundred days? That might be too high. Not blind yet, in fact my vision now is better than 2 years ago.
Logged
Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,525

« Reply #50 on: May 16, 2016, 09:18:07 PM »

Capt, like I said, effects on vision is cumulative. At 26, you are too young to see the effects of such cumulation.

It is like hearing loss. If you are assigned to an artillery battery, are you not told to use hearing protection when firing those guns? Are you not told to protect your hearing in other ways?

At 26, or 36 you may still be too young to feel the effects of those barrages you fired yesterday or a week ago. But hearing loss at a later age compared with others at that later age can be attributed to those earlier barrages...

 ???
Logged

Squadron Administrative Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
grunt82abn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 201

« Reply #51 on: May 16, 2016, 09:29:10 PM »

Capt, like I said, effects on vision is cumulative. At 26, you are too young to see the effects of such cumulation.

It is like hearing loss. If you are assigned to an artillery battery, are you not told to use hearing protection when firing those guns? Are you not told to protect your hearing in other ways?

At 26, or 36 you may still be too young to feel the effects of those barrages you fired yesterday or a week ago. But hearing loss at a later age compared with others at that later age can be attributed to those earlier barrages...

 ???

Thats like comparing apples and rocks. Firing off 1,000's of, 105mm or better, rounds versus standing in formation with cool guy sunglasses on is another. We might have the cadets try wearing their patrol cap correctly, it should block the sun just fine to meet safety requirements for shielding their eyes from the bright sun. Another tip is NOT to have them looking directly into the sun wondering what is going on back home. Just a thought
Logged
Sean Riley, TSGT
US Army 1987 to 1994, WIARNG 1994 to 2008
DoD Firefighter Paramedic 2000 to Present
Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,525

« Reply #52 on: May 16, 2016, 09:50:11 PM »

Just several thoughts.

It is not comparing apples and oranges. The results of both effects is the sum.

You can get 10 (loss of a sense) whether you add 5+5 (artillery) or 6+4 (UV).

And you get UV on your eye several ways, not just "looking at the sun."

1. You get UV on your eye by reflection from ground.
2. Encampments are held in military bases and air bases. Where there are no trees, or trees have been cut.
3. UV is reflected from runways.
4. UV is reflected from the dry, whitish ground.
5. UV is coming not only from the sun but the effect of no trees around to help shield.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2016, 09:53:17 PM by Luis R. Ramos » Logged

Squadron Administrative Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,317
Unit: Classified

« Reply #53 on: May 16, 2016, 10:10:50 PM »

Or this

1) Sunglasses not on packing list AKA contraband
2) Sunglasses not allowed in formation (cadets spend a lot of time in formation at encampment)
Logged
HGjunkie
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,616

« Reply #54 on: May 16, 2016, 10:45:40 PM »

Sunglasses should be one of those things where cadet personal safety trumps the regs, for CAP purposes anyways. I'm always miserable when I'm outside in any bright weather without my sunglasses, and I don't want issues 30 years down the road because I wasn't allowed to wear them. Patrol caps are not good for protection from anything other than direct sunlight in your face, and you still have to contend with the multiple other ways the UV can get to your eyes (reflection, etc). We let them wear multitudes of different hydration systems, outer garments (cold weather), and other non-uniform uniform items, and nobody is up in arms about that looking unprofessional. CAP is not the military, and while we should try to match the Air Force closely in certain respects there are things which we can (or should) deviate from since encampment is not supposed to be like BMT where your individuality is stripped from you and you're rebuilt into a warfighter from the ground up.
Logged
retired
C1C USAFA
grunt82abn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 201

« Reply #55 on: May 16, 2016, 11:11:51 PM »

Here is my ultimate, not very humble, opinion about sunglasses: Unless you can specifically point it out in a regulation that allows it, they are not allowed. 2) I am sure that someone in charge will follow this regulation to the letter and will enforce the "no sunglasses" regulation when at encampment. 3) Standing on a soap box and complaining how opposed you are to this regulation on this forum will solve nothing. 4) If you want to see this regulation changed, research the common causes of cataracts and eye injury due to long term, direct exposer to the sun, the actual medically recommended fix for limiting exposer and damage, and submit your findings and results to NHQ's. Who knows, with a little bit of work, the regulation might get changed.
Logged
Sean Riley, TSGT
US Army 1987 to 1994, WIARNG 1994 to 2008
DoD Firefighter Paramedic 2000 to Present
PA Guy
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 709

« Reply #56 on: May 16, 2016, 11:29:15 PM »

PA,

Is not cataract formation cumulative? I thought it was...

1 hour here, 10 hours at the encampment, 5 hours during O-flights... and to say nothing about his home exposure...

Yes, it is cumulative over a life time. The typical CAP encampment does not have a significant impact. If the encampment is being run according to the current regulation outdoor UV is limited. Cadets are not exposed to direct sunlight from sunrise to sunset. Remember, we are talking about cumulative exposure over a lifetime. Don't be obtuse.
Logged
PA Guy
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 709

« Reply #57 on: May 16, 2016, 11:33:08 PM »

Now you're really stretching. Sunglasses do NOT, for the most part, protect you from skin cancer, the predominate UV-caused form of cancer. If the encampment head shed says no sunglasses, then no sunglasses.

Sunglasses do, however, reduce the likelihood of long term issues with eye health.  It is a small stretch re: skin cancer, though they do reduce exposure of the skin around the eyes that are difficult to safely slather with sun block.

I think the discussion of $200 or $400 dollar glasses is a red herring.  If the glasses are Rx, end of discussion.  They are medically required.

If they are medically required accompanied by a note it is a done deal. Medically required is not the issue.
Logged
Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,525

« Reply #58 on: May 16, 2016, 11:35:01 PM »

PA, you are the obtuse one! I was the one that pointed the cumulative effect!

Add encampments, you add to the cumulation. By them selves alone, it is as you state. No discernible effect.

However the discussion has morphed from "sunglasses may be allowed in 20 years" to "has to be done now."

As previously stated, follow the packing list. Follow regs. Now it is not allowed. So do not wear them.

 ;)
Logged

Squadron Administrative Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
Майор Хаткевич
200,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,075
Unit: GLR-IL-049

« Reply #59 on: May 17, 2016, 01:34:14 AM »

PA, you are the obtuse one! I was the one that pointed the cumulative effect!

Add encampments, you add to the cumulation. By them selves alone, it is as you state. No discernible effect.

However the discussion has morphed from "sunglasses may be allowed in 20 years" to "has to be done now."

As previously stated, follow the packing list. Follow regs. Now it is not allowed. So do not wear them.

 

I wonder what the sitindoorsandgame vs gooutsideandplay impact is.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5  All Print 
CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Encampments & NCSAs  |  Topic: Sunglasses as contraband
 


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.13 | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.091 seconds with 20 queries.