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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Encampments & NCSAs  |  Topic: Signature on Form 31
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Buckle Up Buckaroo
Recruit

Posts: 13

« on: March 30, 2016, 06:56:32 PM »

Hey team,   So I just paid for my NCSA today (a powered flight academy). I'm 18 years old, but still live with my family. Since I'm legally an adult now, am I able to sign where it says my parents need to sign at the last page of Form 31?
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RMW14
Member

Posts: 54
Unit: NER-PA-010

« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2016, 07:42:49 PM »

I can't seem to find the part in the regs but I am positive that as long as you have "Cadet" attached to your membership, your adult "legality" means nothing when it comes to the paperwork.
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Ryan Weir Capt
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Eclipse
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« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2016, 07:46:04 PM »

https://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/917/kw/cadet%20signing%20form

KB Article data Nov 2015

Q: After a cadet has turned 18 years of age, does CAP require that his/her parents continue to sign parental consent forms or similar documents such as applications for national cadet special activities?

A: Yes. There is no provision in CAPR 52-16 Cadet Program Management 1 November 2015 to exempt parent or guardian signatures on the CAPF 31 Application for CAP Encampment or Special Activity Oct 13 for cadets over 18. Indeed there are certain obligations parents or guardians incur when a cadet of any age attends a National Cadet Special Activity (NCSA) so signatures are very important. See Paragraph 8-4f  below.

8-4. National Cadet Special Activities.
f. Early Dismissal. If due to medical or disciplinary reasons a cadet must be sent home early from a NCSA, including International Air Cadet Exchange (IACE), it shall be the obligation of the parent(s) or legal guardian(s) to pay for transportation and/or related costs. Parents acknowledge this obligation by signing their cadetís CAPF 31, Application for CAP Encampment or Special Activity.
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Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,520

« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2016, 08:12:22 PM »

I was assigned to medical duties for the first half of the New York 2013 Encampment. One of the cadets was over 18, was going to enter the National Guard I think. His parents did not sign the medical. He brought some over-the-counter meds. Or had other meds. During in-process I had to contact his parents. His father said "Do you realize he is over 18?"

My answer was "Yes sir but you still have to sign the form."

They had to drive to where the Encampment was taking place...
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stillamarine
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« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2016, 09:35:11 PM »

I can see where the confusion may come from. The Boy Scouts of America's Learning for Life (Exploring) does not require a parent's signature if the Explorer is over the age of 18.
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Tim Gardiner, 1st LT, CAP

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Spaceman3750
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Posts: 2,609

« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2016, 11:24:20 PM »

I was assigned to medical duties for the first half of the New York 2013 Encampment. One of the cadets was over 18, was going to enter the National Guard I think. His parents did not sign the medical. He brought some over-the-counter meds. Or had other meds. During in-process I had to contact his parents. His father said "Do you realize he is over 18?"

My answer was "Yes sir but you still have to sign the form."

They had to drive to where the Encampment was taking place...

CAPR 160-14-6. No Restrictions on Cadets Over Age of Majority. Nothing in this regulation shall limit the ability of CAP cadet members over the age of majority in the state in which the activity is conducted either to possess or self-administer prescription, non-prescription drugs, herbals, vitamins or supplements.

The updated reg would have just come out at the time, but adult cadets don't need a permission slip for meds.
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Tim Day
Seasoned Member

Posts: 257
Unit: MER-VA-102

Virginia Wing Civil Air Patrol
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2016, 03:06:49 PM »

I was assigned to medical duties for the first half of the New York 2013 Encampment. One of the cadets was over 18, was going to enter the National Guard I think. His parents did not sign the medical. He brought some over-the-counter meds. Or had other meds. During in-process I had to contact his parents. His father said "Do you realize he is over 18?"

My answer was "Yes sir but you still have to sign the form."

They had to drive to where the Encampment was taking place...

CAPR 160-14-6. No Restrictions on Cadets Over Age of Majority. Nothing in this regulation shall limit the ability of CAP cadet members over the age of majority in the state in which the activity is conducted either to possess or self-administer prescription, non-prescription drugs, herbals, vitamins or supplements.

The updated reg would have just come out at the time, but adult cadets don't need a permission slip for meds.

Cadets of majority need parental signatures (in wet ink) on the CAPF 31 but not on the CAPF 160s. They can sign for themselves on the CAPF 32.
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Tim Day
Lt Col CAP
Virginia Wing Encampment Commander
Prince William Composite Squadron Commander
Fubar
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« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2016, 03:10:33 PM »

Cadets of majority need parental signatures (in wet ink) on the CAPF 31 but not on the CAPF 160s. They can sign for themselves on the CAPF 32.

It's stuff like this that drives parents and cadet programs folks nuts. It's all tied to legal issues though, so I'm not sure there is much that can be done about it.
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Tim Day
Seasoned Member

Posts: 257
Unit: MER-VA-102

Virginia Wing Civil Air Patrol
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2016, 03:48:17 PM »

Cadets of majority need parental signatures (in wet ink) on the CAPF 31 but not on the CAPF 160s. They can sign for themselves on the CAPF 32.

It's stuff like this that drives parents and cadet programs folks nuts. It's all tied to legal issues though, so I'm not sure there is much that can be done about it.
For one thing, we as activity leaders could stop requiring CAPF 31 requirements for most activities as they are not required (unless there's an HAA, I believe). Since we have HAA at encampment, we require a 31 but not a 32, since we meet the requirement by posting the required details on our website, see this FAQ.

Medical forms are standard anywhere... not much we can do about that.   
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Tim Day
Lt Col CAP
Virginia Wing Encampment Commander
Prince William Composite Squadron Commander
thebeggerpie
Recruit

Posts: 49
Unit: SWR-TX-371

« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2016, 04:06:46 PM »

 Question, so a cadet that is over the age of 18 but no longer lives with his parents, would still need his parents' signatures on the Form 31, right?

 Where is the logic there?
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lordmonar
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« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2016, 04:16:41 PM »

Question, so a cadet that is over the age of 18 but no longer lives with his parents, would still need his parents' signatures on the Form 31, right?

 Where is the logic there?
We write one set of rules for cadets......and for that 1% that is outside of the norm...they have to work out the kinks.

The other side is....if a cadet wants to be an "adult" then he should convert to senior membership.

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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
almostspaatz
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« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2016, 04:21:08 PM »

The other side is....if a cadet wants to be an "adult" then he should convert to senior membership.

But cadets have more fun...(sometimes) >:D
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C/Maj Steve Garrett
Storm Chaser
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« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2016, 04:49:41 PM »

Question, so a cadet that is over the age of 18 but no longer lives with his parents, would still need his parents' signatures on the Form 31, right?

 Where is the logic there?
We write one set of rules for cadets......and for that 1% that is outside of the norm...they have to work out the kinks.

The other side is....if a cadet wants to be an "adult" then he should convert to senior membership.

I agree. If a cadet wants to be treated like an adult member, the he or she should convert their membership status and assume the responsibilities that come with it.
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RogueLeader
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Posts: 3,626
Unit: Of measure

« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2016, 05:43:26 PM »

The other side is....if a cadet wants to be an "adult" then he should convert to senior membership.

But cadets have more fun...(sometimes) >:D

I don't disagree, but there needs to be a line.  Because, seriously, what physiological or mental difference between 17years 364 days compared to 18 years 0 days?  Statistically none.  Yet, even the law makes that distinction.

CAP made the distinction that the CAPF 31 requires a wet signature for cadets.  You could make the case that it shouldn't be that way, and there is a solution: type up the change you want to see and send it up the flag pole, and see who salutes.
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Tim Day
Seasoned Member

Posts: 257
Unit: MER-VA-102

Virginia Wing Civil Air Patrol
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2016, 09:32:53 AM »

Question, so a cadet that is over the age of 18 but no longer lives with his parents, would still need his parents' signatures on the Form 31, right?

 Where is the logic there?

The logic is that a person over 18 has voluntarily chosen to remain a cadet, which by definition places them in a position of lesser authority than a senior member. While logical, NHQ/CP stepped back from that a bit with the CAPF 32. I believe there is a discussion going on about how to better integrate the two forms.

It's possible that a cadet over 18 might not have a parent or guardian available to sign the CAPF 31. In that case, I would route a request for an exception to policy to NHQ/CP explaining the situation.
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Tim Day
Lt Col CAP
Virginia Wing Encampment Commander
Prince William Composite Squadron Commander
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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Encampments & NCSAs  |  Topic: Signature on Form 31
 


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