Paramilitary

[raivo]

Reading over the question (and the other sub-bullets) I suspect the intent is more to find out if you used to belong to the IRA, or if you're part of a group that's likely to wind up on the news in a standoff with the ATF.

But I doubt anyone's going to give it a second thought if you say you're in CAP, unless they don't know what CAP is and have to go look it up.

[USACAP]

This is legal advice:
Respond, confidently, with "NO."
DHS is NOT looking for Orgs formally associated with DoD or the USG (CAP, ROTC, Sea Cadets etc).
They need to know if you've joined the Pennsylvania Military Reserve, Jamat al-Furqua or the Michigan Militia (to name a couple).
CAP does NOT meet the criteria of what we're looking for.
You may answer "YES" if you desire, but you really don't have to unless you want to highlight the positive civic participation in CAP or display your willingness to be forthcoming or whatever (but I think your CAP membership will be noted elsewhere, yeah??).
Really though - you don't have to answer "YES" because CAP absolutely does not meet the criteria we define for militia.  CAP is not a militia for the purposes described here.

Part 11 gets more complicated, however, as you noted.
If you learned how to shoot a .22 @ a Boy Scout camp or a CAP encampment, for example, they do want to know the specifics of any and all firearms-related training.

Actually...this is an important question for me, not just barracks lawyering.

The reason this is important is so that I can truthfully answer Question 15(B) on USCIS form N-400 ("Application for Naturalization")
https://www.uscis.gov/n-400

15.  Were you ever a member of, or did you ever serve in, help, or otherwise participate in any of the following groups:
...
B.  Paramilitary unit?  (a group of people who act like a military group but are not part of the official military)

(Emphasis in original)

[PHall]

This is legal advice:
Respond, confidently, with "NO."
DHS is NOT looking for Orgs formally associated with DoD or the USG (CAP, ROTC, Sea Cadets etc).
They need to know if you've joined the Pennsylvania Military Reserve, Jamat al-Furqua or the Michigan Militia (to name a couple).
CAP does NOT meet the criteria of what we're looking for.
You may answer "YES" if you desire, but you really don't have to unless you want to highlight the positive civic participation in CAP or display your willingness to be forthcoming or whatever (but I think your CAP membership will be noted elsewhere, yeah??).
Really though - you don't have to answer "YES" because CAP absolutely does not meet the criteria we define for militia.  CAP is not a militia for the purposes described here.

Part 11 gets more complicated, however, as you noted.
If you learned how to shoot a .22 @ a Boy Scout camp or a CAP encampment, for example, they do want to know the specifics of any and all firearms-related training.

Actually...this is an important question for me, not just barracks lawyering.

The reason this is important is so that I can truthfully answer Question 15(B) on USCIS form N-400 ("Application for Naturalization")
https://www.uscis.gov/n-400

15.  Were you ever a member of, or did you ever serve in, help, or otherwise participate in any of the following groups:
...
B.  Paramilitary unit?  (a group of people who act like a military group but are not part of the official military)

(Emphasis in original)

Are you a admitted to the bar lawyer? You would need to be one to give legal advice.

[Eclipse]

Are you a admitted to the bar lawyer? You would need to be one to give legal advice.

Judge Judy would agree:


Also, anytime I have ever discussed this issue with people who have to vet applications, backgrounds, etc.,
has indicated "it's better err on the side of caution, and let the evaluator disregard, then raise any red flag..."

[Garibaldi]

Seeing as how CAP is not, and can never be, an armed anything, I doubt we fall under the umbrella of a militia. I would think they are looking for the aforementioned groups, or any group of armed mercenaries, Mountain Men, or any org that wants to overthrow the government by violent means.

Just my opinion.

Nice Judge Judy facepalm.

[USACAP]

I helped write the screening criteria ...

This is legal advice:
Respond, confidently, with "NO."
DHS is NOT looking for Orgs formally associated with DoD or the USG (CAP, ROTC, Sea Cadets etc).
They need to know if you've joined the Pennsylvania Military Reserve, Jamat al-Furqua or the Michigan Militia (to name a couple).
CAP does NOT meet the criteria of what we're looking for.
You may answer "YES" if you desire, but you really don't have to unless you want to highlight the positive civic participation in CAP or display your willingness to be forthcoming or whatever (but I think your CAP membership will be noted elsewhere, yeah??).
Really though - you don't have to answer "YES" because CAP absolutely does not meet the criteria we define for militia.  CAP is not a militia for the purposes described here.

Part 11 gets more complicated, however, as you noted.
If you learned how to shoot a .22 @ a Boy Scout camp or a CAP encampment, for example, they do want to know the specifics of any and all firearms-related training.

Actually...this is an important question for me, not just barracks lawyering.

The reason this is important is so that I can truthfully answer Question 15(B) on USCIS form N-400 ("Application for Naturalization")
https://www.uscis.gov/n-400

15.  Were you ever a member of, or did you ever serve in, help, or otherwise participate in any of the following groups:
...
B.  Paramilitary unit?  (a group of people who act like a military group but are not part of the official military)

(Emphasis in original)

Are you a admitted to the bar lawyer? You would need to be one to give legal advice.

[SAREXinNY]

Does the application say "militia" or "paramilitary organization?"  People are using both terms in this discussion, and I think the two are very, very different.

[MHC5096]

Regarding the N-400, the answer to the paramilitary question would be NO regarding CAP. Take my word for it. I've been an Immigration Officer for the past 15 years and I spent 5 years adjudicating those applications and another 2 supervising officers who do.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Regarding the N-400, the answer to the paramilitary question would be NO regarding CAP. Take my word for it. I've been an Immigration Officer for the past 15 years and I spent 5 years adjudicating those applications and another 2 supervising officers who do.

And if anything, this thought did not enter my mind when I said "NO" on my application in 2010, and certainly nothing came of it.

[Garibaldi]

Does the application say "militia" or "paramilitary organization?"  People are using both terms in this discussion, and I think the two are very, very different.

I meant paramilitary org, but militia are the examples I used. I would say that any uniformed organization that has no affiliation with their "parent" service, such as the Sea Cadets, the dreaded HHSNBN's Ranger organization and others that emphasize military training over academics like ROTC and CAP, WITHOUT WEAPON TRAINING, should be considered as a paramilitary organization. Militias like the Mountain Men and others, who put the emphasis on "rigorous" (using that term loosely) weapons training should also be looped in this category, though they are mainly advocating the violent overthrow of our government, and are probably (don't honestly know) covered in another section.

Just my opinion, but as we know, I'm often wrong.

[THRAWN]

Does the application say "militia" or "paramilitary organization?"  People are using both terms in this discussion, and I think the two are very, very different.

I meant paramilitary org, but militia are the examples I used. I would say that any uniformed organization that has no affiliation with their "parent" service, such as the Sea Cadets, the dreaded HHSNBN's Ranger organization and others that emphasize military training over academics like ROTC and CAP, WITHOUT WEAPON TRAINING, should be considered as a paramilitary organization. Militias like the Mountain Men and others, who put the emphasis on "rigorous" (using that term loosely) weapons training should also be looped in this category, though they are mainly advocating the violent overthrow of our government, and are probably (don't honestly know) covered in another section.

Just my opinion, but as we know, I'm often wrong.

Your info on the Sea Cadets is not quite right....

An easy way to find out what these words mean is to us a dictionary. Simple definitions there...

[RogueLeader]

What a dictionary defines and how the government defines terms =/=.  I'd check how the government defines them, and go from there.

[JeffDG]

What a dictionary defines and how the government defines terms =/=.  I'd check how the government defines them, and go from there.

Well, for paramilitary, all you get is what the question says (a group that acts like the military while not being part of the military).

For militia, there is no guidance in the USCIS documentation.  I am answering yes based on the US Code reference above.

[Майор Хаткевич]

What a dictionary defines and how the government defines terms =/=.  I'd check how the government defines them, and go from there.

Well, for paramilitary, all you get is what the question says (a group that acts like the military while not being part of the military).

For militia, there is no guidance in the USCIS documentation.  I am answering yes based on the US Code reference above.

Hey, it's a headache for you, not us.

(5)   Regarding paramilitary membership(Part 11. Item. 15.B.),what if applicants belong(ed) to a paramilitary branch organization registered in the United States?[size=inherit]Respond "no."  USCIS is not looking for organizations that are associated with the United States military, such as ROTC. [/size][/font][/size][size=inherit] [/size][/font][/size]

[size=inherit][/font]

[Holding Pattern]

This is legal advice:

In all my time on the internet, I must say, this is the first time I've ever seen anyone do this.

[Майор Хаткевич]

This is legal advice:

In all my time on the internet, I must say, this is the first time I've ever seen anyone do this.

Reddit.com/r/legaladvice

[MHC5096]

If I was adjudicating your N-400 and you marked YES, I would ask you some follow-up questions and when you mentioned Civil Air Patrol I would have you change your answer to NO and initial and date the change. That said, I obviously know what CAP is. Most Immigration Services Officers won't have a clue about CAP and won't be willing to proceed without issuing a N-14 Request for Evidence (RFE). Expect delays in the adjudication of your application.

[JeffDG]

If I was adjudicating your N-400 and you marked YES, I would ask you some follow-up questions and when you mentioned Civil Air Patrol I would have you change your answer to NO and initial and date the change. That said, I obviously know what CAP is. Most Immigration Services Officers won't have a clue about CAP and won't be willing to proceed without issuing a N-14 Request for Evidence (RFE). Expect delays in the adjudication of your application.

If you mark yes, the instructions are to provide an explanation as to why.  No need to ask, the explanation in full detail will be provided.

[Майор Хаткевич]

If I was adjudicating your N-400 and you marked YES, I would ask you some follow-up questions and when you mentioned Civil Air Patrol I would have you change your answer to NO and initial and date the change. That said, I obviously know what CAP is. Most Immigration Services Officers won't have a clue about CAP and won't be willing to proceed without issuing a N-14 Request for Evidence (RFE). Expect delays in the adjudication of your application.

If you mark yes, the instructions are to provide an explanation as to why.  No need to ask, the explanation in full detail will be provided.

Unless they want more information. Thus delaying the application.


Seriously. Look at the other questions. Do they sound like they are asking about things you hear on the news? War zones? Child soldiers? Nazi concentration camp guards? Those are questions about your life before you came to the US. CAP is not, and never has been considered a paramilitary organization in the sense the USCIS is interested in knowing.

[JeffDG]

If I was adjudicating your N-400 and you marked YES, I would ask you some follow-up questions and when you mentioned Civil Air Patrol I would have you change your answer to NO and initial and date the change. That said, I obviously know what CAP is. Most Immigration Services Officers won't have a clue about CAP and won't be willing to proceed without issuing a N-14 Request for Evidence (RFE). Expect delays in the adjudication of your application.

If you mark yes, the instructions are to provide an explanation as to why.  No need to ask, the explanation in full detail will be provided.

Unless they want more information. Thus delaying the application.


Seriously. Look at the other questions. Do they sound like they are asking about things you hear on the news? War zones? Child soldiers? Nazi concentration camp guards? Those are questions about your life before you came to the US. CAP is not, and never has been considered a paramilitary organization in the sense the USCIS is interested in knowing.

Well, then they should word the form, or the official instructions, that way.

The moment I sign the N-400 I become a member of the Militia of the United States.  By the definition on the form, CAP can easily be considered a paramilitary organization.  My firearms safety course when I was 12 is "weapons training".

The last question was on my I-485 too, and I'm giving the same "Yes" answer to it.  Just like they worded the criminal history portion in such a way as it includes every parking, traffic or other ticket you may have ever received in your life.