Unit Commanders

[Flying Pig]

CAP's Term Limits are longer than the military's. The intent is to have experienced personnel move up and pass their expertise on to a wider audience and allow up and coming officers to lead at the Squadrobs and Groups.

Unfortunately CAP doesn't work like that.  People in CAP don't move around like military commanders who move up, and then get paid moves to other bases.  People join CAP and stay in one place.  In CAP there is no incentive to climb the ladder other than for that members personal interest.  Just look at how many people DONT apply to be a Wing or Group CC.  I don't know that its ever been a REAL issue, although I know with my old squadron I was told personally that if I didn't take over the Sq, it was just going to be disbanded.  And I have seen instances where someone took the spot with a groan, when the current CC was more than willing to stay on.   I think the current system seems to work fine, and If I recall there are provisions for extensions if no other commander can be found?  I think it was 3yrs with a 1yr extension.  Really, if you cant find a replacement in 4yrs, then something is wrong anyway.  Unless all of your membership walks out at the 3.5yr mark.

[Storm Chaser]

The problem I have with a CC being on for indefinite periods are that a CC can end up burnt-out, as happened with my former CC, who also happened to be a good friend.

Also, a CC can begin to think a unit is his/her "turf"...in which case a cleaning-out is necessary...which is why I support the term limitations.

You're 100% correct. Those are some of the reasons why term limits were put in place.

Really, if you cant find a replacement in 4yrs, then something is wrong anyway.  Unless all of your membership walks out at the 3.5yr mark.

Exactly.

[LSThiker]

Really, if you cant find a replacement in 4yrs, then something is wrong anyway.  Unless all of your membership walks out at the 3.5yr mark.

In which case, then something is wrong anyway.

[JC004]

Units that struggle because the leadership is lacking tend to lack good candidates for command, because they've left by the time a change rolls around.  These units get stuck in a cycle, especially if there is a lack of major support from above to break the cycle.

[lordmonar]

especially if there is a lack of major support from above to break the cycle.

And that ladies and gentlemen is the key to all the problems term limits are supposed to solve.

Stagnate leadership....group/wing should make a fix.
No opportunity for growth for lower officers.....group/wing should make the fix.

Now don't get me wrong....3-4 years in the hot seat is just about right for most people.   But I don't see the need to move an effective commander simply because his/her time is up.

[Eclipse]

Term limits simply replace leadership with bureaucracy.

The vacuum of the former is generally filled with the latter.

Something CAP seems unable, or unwilling to accept, thus the increasing administrative and regulatory burden.

CAP isn't growing leaders, or even good managers, so the things that most companies and services would
assume as a matter of fact, aren't even on the radar, and thus have to be added to inspections and the regs.

[DoubleSecret]

And that ladies and gentlemen is the key to all the problems term limits are supposed to solve.

Stagnate leadership....group/wing should make a fix.
No opportunity for growth for lower officers.....group/wing should make the fix.

Some groups/wings cause that leadership stagnation, and deter applications by how they do day-to-day business.  They might grow the pool of aspiring CCs simply by being easier to work with.  I've known a number of dedicated, unit-level officers who don't apply because their higher HQ makes things unduly onerous.  The unit level stuff can be a headache all on its own, but having to cater to some HHQ person's sense of self-importance is a migraine.

[w7sar]

To quote:
"Some groups/wings cause that leadership stagnation, and deter applications by how they do day-to-day business.  They might grow the pool of aspiring CCs simply by being easier to work with.  I've known a number of dedicated, unit-level officers who don't apply because their higher HQ makes things unduly onerous.  The unit level stuff can be a headache all on its own, but having to cater to some HHQ person's sense of self-importance is a migraine."

ABSOLUTELY!

Unfortunately a lot of folks in "higher" headquarters have not been in a squadron for decades and have no clue to how much is required of today's squadron commanders/members. 

A deal killer is someone "above" who just sits, issues directives or requests or creates forms and loads the usual few in a squadron that try to follow the rules ... until the squadron folk just give up.  And add in parents who are there to support their kids ... and the huge burden from above just burns them out so when their kid loses interest, the parents quit too.  And then there are the higher headquarters folk who believe there is a problem (perhaps with a singular event) who decide to add roadblocks shotgun style in the form of "review mechanisms" to improve something that probably didn't need improving.  It's a power thing ... "I will make you jump through hoops to show you how important I am."  (Where the opposite is true ... "I will help you achieve greatness by helping remove barriers to your progress or at least take the time to help you understand why you are being asked to do something."

The SINGLE most important question a supervising staff/commander should ask is "What is the impact of this new idea/requirement/form/supplement on the SQUADRON member? And is this additional "thing" really needed?" 

If it adds to a member's burden and the member has no understanding of "WHY", chances are that it will tip the balance toward inactivity ... Things like requiring reports that no one (who requires them) actually reads or holding up some action for an ad hoc committee review (sometimes not even defined in a supplement/regulation).

LEADING (vs. managing) volunteers is an interesting animal.  Occupy enough of their time with meaningless demands, and a volunteer will take their time and talents elsewhere.

But .. just my opinion. 

[Eclipse]

the usual few in a squadron that try to follow the rules ... until the squadron folk just give up.  And add in parents who are there to support their kids ... and the huge burden from above just burns them out so when their kid loses interest, the parents quit too.  And then there are the higher headquarters folk who believe there is a problem (perhaps with a singular event) who decide to add roadblocks shotgun style in the form of "review mechanisms" to improve something that probably didn't need improving.  It's a power thing ... "I will make you jump through hoops to show you how important I am."  (Where the opposite is true ... "I will help you achieve greatness by helping remove barriers to your progress or at least take the time to help you understand why you are being asked to do something."

The bold is the root of the problem, not when higher HQ starts directing people to do their jobs.

If your unit is run by "a few", or you have members in uniform who won't do much more then sit and watch their cadets,
you're not doing it correctly.  Neither is sustainable, nor fits the proper model.

I love how when CC's fail in the mandates they accepted voluntarily, it becomes everyone else's "fault" that they aren't / can't
do their jobs and what is both expected of them and which they agreed to do.

Don't like it?  LEAVE.

"But there's no one else to do my job."

You're just made your own point...

[lordmonar]

No mission ready unit was inspection ready....no inspection ready unit was mission ready.

This is an old military joke.....but it applies to CAP more so then the military.

[Eclipse]

Yeah.

More BS.  CAP needs to try "mission ready" on for size for a while before it
can make those kinds of jokes.

If I ever see it I'll take a pic.

[lordmonar]

Yeah.

More BS.  CAP needs to try "mission ready" on for size for a while before it
can make those kinds of jokes.

If I ever see it I'll take a pic.

Come by my squadron...you will see it every Tuesday.

[JeffDG]

Yeah.

More BS.  CAP needs to try "mission ready" on for size for a while before it
can make those kinds of jokes.

If I ever see it I'll take a pic.

Come by my squadron...you will see it every Tuesday.

yeah, he thinks the failures of his wing, like wing commanders unable to break bad news to people, apply to everyone else.

[Eclipse]

Yeah.

More BS.  CAP needs to try "mission ready" on for size for a while before it
can make those kinds of jokes.

If I ever see it I'll take a pic.

Come by my squadron...you will see it every Tuesday.

Yeah, well if anything Area 51 Composite is the exception that proves the
rule.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Yeah, well if anything Area 51 Composite is the exception that proves the
rule.

SIR-I must warn you, from one officer to another, that the existence of PCR-NV-666 has never been acknowledged officially, unofficially, through rumour or hearsay by the Pacific Coast Region CAP, National Headquarters CAP, CAP-USAF, USAF-CAP, any General officer, any Cabinet secretary, Steven Spielberg, Sir Ridley Scott or Uncle Tom Cobley.

[rustyjeeper]

Yeah, well if anything Area 51 Composite is the exception that proves the
rule.

SIR-I must warn you, from one officer to another, that the existence of PCR-NV-666 has never been acknowledged officially, unofficially, through rumour or hearsay by the Pacific Coast Region CAP, National Headquarters CAP, CAP-USAF, USAF-CAP, any General officer, any Cabinet secretary, Steven Spielberg, Sir Ridley Scott or Uncle Tom Cobley.

Kudo's on the OPSEC warning! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Private Investigator]

No mission ready unit was inspection ready....no inspection ready unit was mission ready.

This is an old military joke.....but it applies to CAP more so then the military.

From my experience as an IG in CAP. That is very true but more Units are not mission ready or inspection ready. Some Units do both poorly or not at all. 

[PHall]

Yeah, well if anything Area 51 Composite is the exception that proves the
rule.

SIR-I must warn you, from one officer to another, that the existence of PCR-NV-666 has never been acknowledged officially, unofficially, through rumour or hearsay by the Pacific Coast Region CAP, National Headquarters CAP, CAP-USAF, USAF-CAP, any General officer, any Cabinet secretary, Steven Spielberg, Sir Ridley Scott or Uncle Tom Cobley.

Okay, for the LAST FRICKIN' TIME.......    There is no Pacific Coast Region.  It's Pacific Region, period...    PCR is used because Puerto Rico wing uses PR.

Comprende?

[MSG Mac]

Yeah, well if anything Area 51 Composite is the exception that proves the
rule.

SIR-I must warn you, from one officer to another, that the existence of PCR-NV-666 has never been acknowledged officially, unofficially, through rumour or hearsay by the Pacific Coast Region CAP, National Headquarters CAP, CAP-USAF, USAF-CAP, any General officer, any Cabinet secretary, Steven Spielberg, Sir Ridley Scott or Uncle Tom Cobley.

Okay, for the LAST FRICKIN' TIME.......    There is no Pacific Coast Region.  It's Pacific Region, period...    PCR is used because Puerto Rico wing uses PR.

Comprende?

Rename it as the West Wing. Martin Sheen can be the Region Commander

[lordmonar]

MSG Mac......my security officer would like to have a few words with you.   Can you come to my office and bring all the contents of your desk with you?   :angel: 

No black helos. We use white unmarked vans now.