Cadet Competition

[Alaric]

Does anyone know if a decision has been made one way or another regarding NCC for 2015?

[PHall]

The Cadet Programs Section at National is working the issue. No final decisions have been made as of last weekend.

[jeders]

According to the Cadet programs slides from the national conference, new rules and procedures should be in place by January 2015 for a relaunch in December 2015.

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/CP01__Cadet_News__Innovations__Redu_4634FFA71F7E7.pdf

[USAFAHopeful]

Can someone explain what the new CPFT proposal means? Greatly appreciated.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Can someone explain what the new CPFT proposal means? Greatly appreciated.

Means they are considering going away from the rigid "This is what you need to make" system to an "improvement" system, along with less common testing, but more common physical activities.

[USAFAHopeful]

Do you know how this "improvement" system will work?

[Eclipse]

Do you know how this "improvement" system will work?

No one can say for sure, but presumably you would need to do "more" or "better" each time you test.

This is how the BSA does it for some ranks, and as my son pointed out, it's fairly simple to game,
which is why objective standards are, IMHO, better.

Theoretically a cadet "improving" could progress and never get near what is expected today.

More watering down.  What should be done is press PT as more then "testing day" which is how it's handled
in many units.

[Ned]

What should be done is press PT as more then "testing day" which is how it's handled in many units.

I think there is broad consensus that our PT program needs to be more than just a monthly test + "exercise on your own so you can pass."

After all, our stated goal is to have cadets "develop a habit of regular exercise."  And while we have provided some nutrition and fitness training guidance in CAPP 52-18, some of it is a bit dated and in any event many units do not treat fitness as vital component of our cadet program.

Which is why the national CP shop has done their homework and is opening a conversation about how to improve and update the PT program.  The white paper discussed in Vegas (and COS) is a start of the conversation.

We discussed in other threads, I believe, part of the problem: the fact that the President's Council no longer supports the testing process that we adopted and incorporated into the CPFT.  That makes it harder for us to claim that our standards are realistic and based on actual testing data.

And since we need some sort of new test / evaluation, it is an excellent time to improve our program and update nutrition information, fitness training programs, and other materials.  We also need to develop lesson plans for local units and perhaps even create a fitness-centric NCSA or two.   Plus identify additional incentives for cadets to develop and sustain fitness -- maybe some sort of PT Excellence Badge.  Or whatever.

So now is the time to look around, find available resources, and be creative in creating a fun and effective fitness program.

[USAFAHopeful]

Agreed.

[Майор Хаткевич]

What should be done is press PT as more then "testing day" which is how it's handled in many units.

I think there is broad consensus that our PT program needs to be more than just a monthly test + "exercise on your own so you can pass."

After all, our stated goal is to have cadets "develop a habit of regular exercise."  And while we have provided some nutrition and fitness training guidance in CAPP 52-18, some of it is a bit dated and in any event many units do not treat fitness as vital component of our cadet program.

Which is why the national CP shop has done their homework and is opening a conversation about how to improve and update the PT program.  The white paper discussed in Vegas (and COS) is a start of the conversation.

We discussed in other threads, I believe, part of the problem: the fact that the President's Council no longer supports the testing process that we adopted and incorporated into the CPFT.  That makes it harder for us to claim that our standards are realistic and based on actual testing data.

And since we need some sort of new test / evaluation, it is an excellent time to improve our program and update nutrition information, fitness training programs, and other materials.  We also need to develop lesson plans for local units and perhaps even create a fitness-centric NCSA or two.   Plus identify additional incentives for cadets to develop and sustain fitness -- maybe some sort of PT Excellence Badge.  Or whatever.

So now is the time to look around, find available resources, and be creative in creating a fun and effective fitness program.

Never been, but isn't PJOC the CAP "Fitness centered NCSA"?


That said, how is a once a year event furthering the goal of "regular fitness"?


Perhaps as part of the NCC, there should be a a CAP "Strong(wo)man" competition? Have it locally, progressing to higher levels? Throw in some bling to wear on uniforms, and there will be interest.


Honestly, most units seem to meet for 2 hours a week.


You've got about 48-50 usable weeks in the year, when you factor out holidays that fall on or around meeting nights and are typically cause to cancel meetings. That means roughly 4 meetings per month, and 8 contact hours (10 if you have a longer meeting).


What do some of these meetings consist of these days? At least 20-30 minutes of announcements and opening formations. You've got your regular monthly safety that takes out at least 15 minutes a month. There's at least a 5-10 minute break in between. At least a 5 minute closing formation. So we're already looking at a generously "low" weekly loss of 35 minutes from your already limited 120-150 minutes. So now we're really talking 6 hours to 8 hours left, and we still need to fit in 5 hours of required curriculum. The 1 hour a month "required" for fitness currently, really takes about that much time to run the PT in anything larger than 10-12 cadet units. Unless there's a way to change our meeting model or requirements, there's no more "time" for PT activities as a unit. Cadets would rather do Leadership, AE, O-Flights and a range of other activities instead of extra PT. At least based on personal, cadet and SM, 11 year experience, PT night is the lowest attendance night, especially with some who "Passed it last month".

[Eclipse]

Other then testing, PT can and should be done outside the regular meetings, i.e. at home, every day.

A log signed bny mom, dad, or school coach would suffice to at least set the tone.  Yes, a few would sacrifice integrity
for expedience, but that would be reflected in not improving.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Other then testing, PT can and should be done outside the regular meetings, i.e. at home, every day.

A log signed bny mom, dad, or school coach would suffice to at least set the tone.  Yes, a few would sacrifice integrity
for expedience, but that would be reflected in not improving.

And that's my point. We don't have enough contact hours to MAKE this a CAP mission. I'd be all for removing PT testing completely, and ONLY doing it for milestones/every 6 months/3 stripes/achievement/etc. Let the cadets set their own pace. Have real data to back up the goals to be met.

[Garibaldi]

As a former cadet who loathed all forms of exercise, I never saw the purpose in PT once a month at meetings. Back then, we did PT in our fatigues and  boots. Once, I ran the mile in bare feet because (this was practice for drill comp) I neglected to bring my tennis shoes, and it was either that or run in my low quarters. I still don't see the purpose of PT. Kids get their exercise at PE in school or extracurricular activities.

It should be taken out of the program, like USAFAUX said. Make it for milestones. Perhaps even for those who WANT to PT for a special activity such as PJOC or HMRS or NESA, which are physically demanding, we can have a PT program that starts maybe 6 months prior to the activity so they don't die when they get there.

I don't know. There's a lot of good in the program, but a lot that could be done way different. We're not the military or a service academy/military prep program.

[Eclipse]

I still don't see the purpose of PT. Kids get their exercise at PE in school or extracurricular activities.

No, they really don't, especially in high school.

Adolescents are increasingly sedentary and budget crises coupled with increased academic expectations are
reducing PE time to near zero in some schools.

A lot of kids don't participate in extracurricular anything, especially sports.

I agree that CAP already has far too little contact time, and much of it is wasted on
repeating announcements, and the safety nonsense.  Two things to eliminate off the top.

What might be nice, for starters, would be that when you have people show to a meeting unprepared, they
do PT instead of drill.

[LSThiker]

Never been, but isn't PJOC the CAP "Fitness centered NCSA"?

That said, how is a once a year event furthering the goal of "regular fitness"?

I have not been to PJOC, but I would not call it a fitness centered NCSA.  Rather, it is an orientation into a military career field that requires a high level of fitness. 

I think a fitness centered course to be more like the Army's Master Fitness Training Course.

We don't have enough contact hours to MAKE this a CAP mission. I'd be all for removing PT testing completely, and ONLY doing it for milestones/every 6 months/3 stripes/achievement/etc.

While I would not be entirely opposed to the idea of having CPFT required for only milestones, I think it would be better to keep the CPFT for every achievement.  This way, the cadet is constantly reminded each month (usual testing schedule) rather than waiting 5 months or so between tests and then only "preparing" for it a few weeks (days) before.  Keeping a person on a regular basis, I think is better.  Similar results can be found when school classes have weekly quizzes.  It forces a student to keep up on the material as opposed to when the class only offers tests. 

On the other hand, you could move towards something similar to the Army and USAF.  They simply have to have a passing PFT on file to promote or have any other favorable actions (awards, schools, PME, etc), which are typically offered either every 6 months or 1 year (Guard and Reserve).  So in CAP's case, to promote you must have a passing CPFT on file within the last 4 or 6 months, which would be close to once every milestone. 

I would move towards something a little stiffer if they fail their CPFT, it is a warning.  Fail 2 CPFTs then prohibition from non-meeting activities.  Obviously, this creates its own problems.

[SarDragon]

As a former cadet who loathed all forms of exercise, I never saw the purpose in PT once a month at meetings. Back then, we did PT in our fatigues and  boots. Once, I ran the mile in bare feet because (this was practice for drill comp) I neglected to bring my tennis shoes, and it was either that or run in my low quarters. I still don't see the purpose of PT. Kids get their exercise at PE in school or extracurricular activities.

It should be taken out of the program, like USAFAUX said. Make it for milestones. Perhaps even for those who WANT to PT for a special activity such as PJOC or HMRS or NESA, which are physically demanding, we can have a PT program that starts maybe 6 months prior to the activity so they don't die when they get there.

I don't know. There's a lot of good in the program, but a lot that could be done way different. We're not the military or a service academy/military prep program.

That's the problem - lots of kids don't get that exercise any more. This obviously varies from district to district, but when I was in HS, and going to gym class twice a week, we didn't have a lot of fat kids in school. Yes, there are other factors involved, including diet, and the Internet, but lack of exercise is the big one.

[LSThiker]

Kids get their exercise at PE in school or extracurricular activities.

When I was in junior high yes I did.  We had gymnastics, regular PT tests, weight lifting, and others for the entire year.  Our gym teachers (male and female) were both former Marines.  However, when I got to high school, PE was ping pong, bowling, and other items for 1/3 of the year. 

It should be taken out of the program, like USAFAUX said. Make it for milestones. Perhaps even for those who WANT to PT for a special activity such as PJOC or HMRS or NESA, which are physically demanding, we can have a PT program that starts maybe 6 months prior to the activity so they don't die when they get there.

I don't know. There's a lot of good in the program, but a lot that could be done way different. We're not the military or a service academy/military prep program.

While we are not in the military nor are we a service academy, but we are a military orientation program in a manner.  The cadet program is centered on the military system with military orientation courses.  The CPFT needs to be kept for all students and not just the ones thinking of PJOC, HMRS, NESA, etc. 

[NC Hokie]

My squadron has to devote 1.5 hours each month to meet the new requirement that units schedule a fitness activity other than the CPFT each month.  Why?  Because there's no way we can get everyone through the CPFT in less than an hour, and scheduling less than thirty minutes for the other activity isn't enough time to do anything worthwhile.

Yeah, I know that doing the CPFT every month is not the best use of our limited time, but I am committed to giving my cadets an opportunity to check each promotion box every month.  It would be nice to let those who do not need to test do something else during that time, but I do not have the manpower to adequately supervise two separate groups of cadets.

I suspect that mine isn't the only smallish unit that has these issues.

That said, I do think that fitness is an important part of the cadet program, but I would totally support an effort to make physical fitness testing another "on your own time" activity like the aerospace and leadership tests.  My fitness program would then be a 30 minute block every other week consisting of calisthenics and a 1/2 mile formation run, with classroom sessions on health, etc. ready to go in the event of inclement weather.  This would give me 30 minutes of flex time back...

...until the next mandate comes down from NHQ. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

Eeeeww....30 minute health sessions? That's what school is for. Cadets are in CAP for anything BUT that.

[Eclipse]

with classroom sessions on health, etc.

Now cadets, this part of the flower is called the stamen, and this is the stigma...now write the names
on the other parts of the flower in your book.

Cadet Shufflebottom!  DO NOT READ AHEAD! 

((Good times))

[NC Hokie]

Eeeeww....30 minute health sessions? That's what school is for. Cadets are in CAP for anything BUT that.

with classroom sessions on health, etc.

Now cadets, this part of the flower is called the stamen, and this is the stigma...now write the names
on the other parts of the flower in your book.

Cadet Shufflebottom!  DO NOT READ AHEAD! 

((Good times))

Look, it's me and mini-me. 

First, this is a backup plan.  I thought that was obvious, but I guess I was wrong.  In a perfect world, it would never be used, but I don't live in a perfect world.

Second, health in this case = nutrition and DDR stuff.  You know, a topic covered in CAPP 52-18 and a part of the cadet program NHQ has been pushing hard in the last couple of years.

You guys might have offered suggestions for fun indoor fitness activities appropriate for a small classroom when the weather keeps cadets indoors.  You didn't.  I guess the opportunity to bring the snark was just too hard to pass up.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Heh. I've finally been called a mini-Eclipse. Awesome.

Take it as you will. I'm 24. I still remember life before adulthood. High school. Even 6-8 grades (moved to the US mid 6th grade, so I don't think my Eastern Bloc experience will count).

I had health classes in 6th, 7th, 8th, and 10th grades. It wasn't all miracle of life and abstinence either. It covered nutrition, the benefits of excersise, and DDR.

You know what wasn't interesting? Rehashing the same stuff year after year. You know what I would have loathed as a cadet back then? Having to do the same thing in CAP. I wasn't in CAP to get a nutrition class. I was in for the military aspect. Others were in for the AE. Still others were in to pad college resumes.

None of us were there for 52-18. Knew it cover to cover, but it was a resource. A resource to knowing what I need for promotion, and some advice on how to do it. All. It. Ever. Was.  All. It. Will. Ever. Be. (In its current form). You need indoor "PT" activities? That a tough one. Its tough enough in the snowy part of the country to do TESTING in the winter time. Want some ideas? Visit a Future Soldier meeting at your recruiters office. Bear crawls, flutter kicks, mountain climbers, pushups, sit ups, pushup up position. Do the Step Test. Do a medicine ball toss. But you know what? That's still lame. It's still only 10+/- hours a month. We won't have any impact on the cadets actual fitness, nor should we try. Give them a resource? Sure. Encourage them to use it? Of course. But it won't mean a [darn] thing when the new GTA VI comes out, and they forget all about it.

[MajorM]

Personally I would like to see a blend of approaches.  For the non-milestone achievements you need to progress better than the last test.  For the milestone you meet an age and gender appropriate standard.  This would be of particular value in Phase I and II.

We have three hour meetings each week and even we have a challenge fitting it all in. I understand the premise... To show cadets there are fun ways to get fitness into your life.  It's an admirable goal and can be a good morale builder too.  But there is the issue of trying to cram 10lbs of stuff into a 5lbs bag.