Encampment/JROTC JCLC Issue

[AirForceBlue117]

(I'm not sure if this is the right place to post, but...) I attended a JROTC Cadet Leadership Challenge early this summer, I had a Captain in CAP tell me that if I finished JCLC that it could count as an CAP Encampment and I can receive the Encampment Ribbon. But also, let's say I attend a Encampment in the Winter. Can I apply as Cadet Staff at the Winter Encampment since JCLC counted as a Basic Encampment?

[lordmonar]

There is a procedure for getting encampment credit for JROTC Camp.  See 52-16 and your DCC/Commander for details.

You can only get the encampment ribbon for going to encampment (IIRC)....getting credit for it does not mean you can wear the ribbon.

If you get encampment credit.....and having that is a Pre-req for staff....then yes.

[AirForceBlue117]

Alright. By the way, does it have to be an Air Force JROTC Summer Camp, or is it open to all branches of JROTC?

[lordmonar]

Alright. By the way, does it have to be an Air Force JROTC Summer Camp, or is it open to all branches of JROTC?

It can be any....but it has to go to NHQ for approval.   Like I said....52-16 and your DCC has the answers for you.

[RogueLeader]

Alright. By the way, does it have to be an Air Force JROTC Summer Camp, or is it open to all branches of JROTC?

Check your messages for a pm.

[AirForceBlue117]

I'm sure how I will be able to because after he completion of JCLC, they give you an award and recognition of going. I wouldn't know how to certify that I completed JCLC to NHQ.

[abdsp51]

It can be any....but it has to go to NHQ for approval.   Like I said....52-16 and your DCC has the answers for you.

52-16 says encampment credit for AFJROTC summer leadership school only.  There are perks for being in it but the encampment credit is for AFJROTC only.

[AirForceBlue117]

I don't see why that would be...from what people have told me and what I have experienced, JCLC and CAP Encampment are about neck and neck. So I wouldn't see why it would be Air Force JCLC only.

[AirForceBlue117]

Plus, that seems unjust because Cadets can't help that their school is Army or Navy JROTC, so it is limiting Cadets who just happen to be in that small percentage of schools. It just doesn't seem right...

[abdsp51]

I don't see why that would be...from what people have told me and what I have experienced, JCLC and CAP Encampment are about neck and neck. So I wouldn't see why it would be Air Force JCLC only.

Have you been to encampment at all? I doubt they are neck and neck and they have different curriculum.   As to why it would be that is what NHQ has established they will take credit for.

You can promote at an accelerated rate for being in JROTC regardless of branch, wear up to three JROTC ribbons on your CAP uniform and you receive encampment credit for completion of the AFJORTC SLC. 

CAPR52-16 Para 10-1.a and 10-1.b

[abdsp51]

Plus, that seems unjust because Cadets can't help that their school is Army or Navy JROTC, so it is limiting Cadets who just happen to be in that small percentage of schools. It just doesn't seem right...

You get some credit for being in an Army or Navy JROTC program you just don't get credit for the summer courses. 

[AirForceBlue117]

From what I have collected between JCLC Participants and Encampment Participants, the only thing that seems to be different is the uniform and little things within the curriculum.

[abdsp51]

From what I have collected between JCLC Participants and Encampment Participants, the only thing that seems to be different is the uniform and little things within the curriculum.

But you can not say definitively as you have not participated in encampment.

[Salty]

When in doubt, attend the CAP encampment.  You'll be better for the experience.

[MSG Mac]

Cadet AirForceBlue117

Your question was answered with a citation from CAPR 52-16, which is the Cadet Program's Bible.
Why ask, if you're not going to accept the answer?
Meanwhile attend a CAP Encampment when you can and continue with your CAP career.
As a FLWG member, you have a Winter Encampment available, if you can't get into one this summer.

[PHall]

AirForceBlue117, go look in CAPR 52-16 (Cadet Program Manual) in Encampment section.
If you do it on-line there will be a link to what the current training requirements are to complete a CAP encampment.
If you did at least 80%  of the requirements at your JROTC Summer Leadership Course, then you may have a case.
If you didn't, then enjoy the FLWG Winter Encampment.

[Garibaldi]

I see 5...repeat FIVE answers that direct the OP to RTFM.

Is there some disconnect somewhere that makes a cadet not able to realize that 5 answers directing them to the correct manual is probably the right thing to do, and not repeat the questions, or keep going after answers we aren't going to give?

I don't understand this instant gratification thing, I guess. I was always told to RTFM when I had a questions that my immediate superiors did not know the answer to.

FIVE times is four times too many to tell someone to RTFM.

[abdsp51]

AirForceBlue117, go look in CAPR 52-16 (Cadet Program Manual) in Encampment section.
If you do it on-line there will be a link to what the current training requirements are to complete a CAP encampment.
If you did at least 80%  of the requirements at your JROTC Summer Leadership Course, then you may have a case.
If you didn't, then enjoy the FLWG Winter Encampment.

He completed an Army JROTC summer course not the AFJROTC course.  52-16 says credit may be given for the AFJROTC course on Para 10-1.b.

[abdsp51]

I see 5...repeat FIVE answers that direct the OP to RTFM.

Is there some disconnect somewhere that makes a cadet not able to realize that 5 answers directing them to the correct manual is probably the right thing to do, and not repeat the questions, or keep going after answers we aren't going to give?

I don't understand this instant gratification thing, I guess. I was always told to RTFM when I had a questions that my immediate superiors did not know the answer to.

FIVE times is four times too many to tell someone to RTFM.

Most kids these days can't think for themselves.   They want the answer they want and that's it, any answer that is not the answer they want  is invalid and wrong even if it's a correct one.  Asking most people to look an answer up in reference material is asking way to much of them and it is definitely a generational thing.

[MSG Mac]

This is the actual page and Chapter you want. You will also have to have a copy of the curriculum and training plan from your JROTC course. Please review the requirements for encampments in R52-16, Chapter 9.

9-5. Equivalent Programs. CAP grants encampment credit to cadets who complete equivalent activities hosted by other cadet organizations. AFJROTC summer leadership schools (local nomenclature varies) are an equivalent program. NHQ/CP evaluates other possible equivalents on a case-by-case basis. To qualify as an equivalent program, the activity must be:
• sponsored by a cadet organization,
• conducted according to a military-style training model,
• conducted in-residence, with overnight experience, and
• designed to fulfill 70% of the CAP encampment program's learning goals.
Cadets request credit for their potentially equivalent program through their unit commander to NHQ/CP. Cadets are requested to include links to program descriptions, curriculum outlines, schedules, etc.

[Eclipse]

^ So take this, prepare a military-style memo to your CC, and ask him to review it and forward if he thinks it meets the mandate.

A couple things - considering the new encampment curriculum and the number of contact hours, if whatever the OP completed
isn't at least "close", NHQ may not approve it.

Second, as indicated, completing "other" may well get you encampment credit for your Mitchell, but it won't count towards
an encampment ribbon, nor will it likely be considered very highly if applying for staff of a CAP activity, especially if it
is one where there is a fair amount of competition for staff slots.

I know as an encampment CC, this came up once or twice, and the reality was that the cadets who had not attended
a CAP encampment, had no real idea how CAP encampments worked, and the risk of a staffer, especially high-placed,
"importing" the SOP of some other organization were too high to warrant giving the cadet a "pass" on the initial.

[Luis R. Ramos]

You guys did answer the cadet in question with correct answers. I do have to point out that his reaction is not that far apart from some senior members who are told again and again the correct answer(s) but (s)he still insists in the incorrect approach... We have more than a few of those senior members in here... So please do not be too hard on him...

[abdsp51]

Without having a copy of the curriculum for the JCLC it's hard to compare the two.  I quick look over looks like it may come close however, there does not appear to be anything aerospace related.  Also the D&C aspect may be called into question as there are many differences between how the Army does D&C compared to how the AF does D&C. 

This also poses a question of can a Sq CC decide not to up channel something like this?  Plus what are the statistics of NHQ approving other cadet orgs camps etc?

[AirForceBlue117]

Without having a copy of the curriculum for the JCLC it's hard to compare the two.  I quick look over looks like it may come close however, there does not appear to be anything aerospace related.  Also the D&C aspect may be called into question as there are many differences between how the Army does D&C compared to how the AF does D&C. 

This also poses a question of can a Sq CC decide not to up channel something like this?  Plus what are the statistics of NHQ approving other cadet orgs camps etc?

I believe I can locate a curriculum sheet as I was Staff at JCLC, I just need to see my Op Orders. As for D&C, AJROTC is about 85% the same as to CAP (When I was doing Drill for CAP - Color Guard, Honor Guard, etc. - They basically had moslty the same movements and commands).

[abdsp51]

I believe I can locate a curriculum sheet as I was Staff at JCLC, I just need to see my Op Orders. As for D&C, AJROTC is about 85% the same as to CAP (When I was doing Drill for CAP - Color Guard, Honor Guard, etc. - They basically had moslty the same movements and commands).

There are major major differences between the two especially when it comes to color guard and standard drill.  Being the same and 85% the same are two different things.

[lordmonar]

And once again......send it up to NHQ for approval.

The worse they could do is say no.

Trying to convince one of us that your CLC is equivalent to an encampment is just wasting your time.

[SARDOC]

Plus, that seems unjust because Cadets can't help that their school is Army or Navy JROTC, so it is limiting Cadets who just happen to be in that small percentage of schools. It just doesn't seem right...

You get some credit for being in an Army or Navy JROTC program you just don't get credit for the summer courses.

That's not necessarily True.  It's evaluated on a case by case basis.

9-5. Equivalent Programs. CAP grants encampment credit to cadets who complete equivalent
activities hosted by other cadet organizations. AFJROTC summer leadership schools (local nomenclature
varies) are an equivalent program. NHQ/CP evaluates other possible equivalents on a case-by-case basis.
To qualify as an equivalent program, the activity must be:

• sponsored by a cadet organization,
• conducted according to a military-style training model,
• conducted in-residence, with overnight experience, and
• designed to fulfill 70% of the CAP encampment program's learning goals.
Cadets request credit for their potentially equivalent program through their unit commander to NHQ/CP.
Cadets are requested to include links to program descriptions, curriculum outlines, schedules, etc.

PLEASE IGNORE.  Duplicate Quote.  I don't want to Nuke the Post

[Tim Medeiros]

I believe I can locate a curriculum sheet as I was Staff at JCLC, I just need to see my Op Orders. As for D&C, AJROTC is about 85% the same as to CAP (When I was doing Drill for CAP - Color Guard, Honor Guard, etc. - They basically had moslty the same movements and commands).

There are major major differences between the two especially when it comes to color guard and standard drill.  Being the same and 85% the same are two different things.

While the movements and commands may be different, the purpose of D&C among each of the services is still the same.  It's kind of like trying to decide whether or not to code something in VB.NET or C#, both have the same purpose (building windows applications, as an example) they just do it in different ways.