Seeking opinions of the almighty CAP ES Gods and Goddesses

[pascocap2002]

I have not been active in CAP and CAP operations as I have spend a vast amount of time out of the country from 2006 until now. I have kept my CAP membership and attended meetings while in the states but I really have not been active in CAP.

I am expired:

CUL
FLM
FLS
GTL
GTM-1
GTM-2
GTM-3
MO
MRO
MS
MSO
UDF

Even thought my Eservices says I am expired, can I still wear the badges?

[Alaric]

Yes, per 35-6, one can wear the badges even once they have expired, however you cannot serve in the position until it appears as active on your 101 card

[Storm Chaser]

Any badges you're entitled to should be approved in Ops Quals eServices under ES Awards (CAP Basic and Senior Ground Team Badges, and CAP Emergency Services Patch) and CAP Ratings (CAP Observer Rating).

If they're approved (show green), then you can continue to wear them. If they're not, but you have a CAPF 2A or equivalent documentation showing the award, then upload it in Ops Quals and submit it for approval.

Once the badges or patches have been awarded, the award is permanent.

[jeders]

Once the badges or patches have been awarded, the award is permanent.

Except, I believe, the GES patch requires you to be current in a specialty.

[Storm Chaser]

Once the badges or patches have been awarded, the award is permanent.

Except, I believe, the GES patch requires you to be current in a specialty.

You're correct. You must be current and qualified as a GES and an additional ES specialty to continue to wear the ES Patch according to CAPR 35-6.

[wacapgh]

Once the badges or patches have been awarded, the award is permanent.

Except, I believe, the GES patch requires you to be current in a specialty.

For award of the patch. Once awarded, always worn. The only patch that has to come off if not current is the CPR patch
Table 6-2
NOTES:
1. Any nationally recognized patch awarded by a certifying agency (Heart Association, American Red
Cross, etc.) upon completion of a CPR training course. Patch will be removed when no longer
current.

[Eclipse]

+1 "Current and qualified" for initial award, no verbiage about removing it (other then good taste).

[arajca]

+1 "Current and qualified" for initial award, no verbiage about removing it (other then good tastepersonal preference).

FTFY

[LSThiker]

For award of the patch. Once awarded, always worn. The only patch that has to come off if not current is the CPR patch

The CISM patch also comes off once you are no longer active on a CISM team.

[Storm Chaser]

+1 "Current and qualified" for initial award, no verbiage about removing it (other then good taste).

CAPR 35-6 doesn't have any verbiage about "initial award" either. You have to be current and qualified to be awarded the other ES awards as well, but the ES Patch is the only one that uses the term "current"; the ground team badges, for example, only say "qualified".

This is also the interpretation provided by the CAP Knowledgebase, as stated here:
http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2045/kw/emergency%20services%20patch

[Eclipse]

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/u_082203095100.pdf
CAPR 35-6, Page 2
"3. Requirements for Award of the CAP Emergency Services Patch. Current and qualified in accordance with CAPR
60-3, CAP Emergency Services Training and Operational Missions as a general emergency services member with one
additional specialty qualification."

Says nothing about removing it.  That KB answer has nothing to support the assertion.

[Storm Chaser]

Maybe so. But CAPR 35-6 says that you have to be "current" and "qualified" for the ES Patch, while it only says you have to be "qualified" for the Ground Team Badges. Obviously, different people interpret the "current" part of the text differently. How do we know that your interpretation of the regulation is correct, while that of NHQ is not? 

Perhaps the regulation should be more clear and concise on this regard. Regulations should not leave anything open to interpretation.

[Luis R. Ramos]

"Current" and "qualified" only applies to "award," not for "wear." If it applied to not wearing when not current and/or not qualified it would also state so.

Flyer

[Storm Chaser]

So you don't have to be "current" to be awarded the Ground Team Badge, just "qualified"? Hmm... There seems to be a disconnect there since you can't have one without the other.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Storm-

Who did you replied to? It helps if people would name the one they replied to... And if to me, you must realize that sometimes we leave off some part(s) of the message, then go back to correct it but it is like doing piecemeal thinking. Now do not tell me this has not happened to you...?



Flyer

[Eclipse]

So you don't have to be "current" to be awarded the Ground Team Badge, just "qualified"? Hmm... There seems to be a disconnect there since you can't have one without the other.

No.  You can still get the GT badge at NESA and not be current or qualified, or at least you could when 35-6 was last updated.

[Storm Chaser]

So you don't have to be "current" to be awarded the Ground Team Badge, just "qualified"? Hmm... There seems to be a disconnect there since you can't have one without the other.

No.  You can still get the GT badge at NESA and not be current or qualified, or at least you could when 35-6 was last updated.

The exact wording of the regulation for the Basic Ground Team Badge is "1) Be qualified as a CAP ground team member in accordance with the CAP 60-series regulations or 2) Graduate from the CAP National Ground Search And Rescue School Advanced Course or equivalent program..." (emphasis mine) So obviously, you have to be "qualified" as a ground team member (i.e. GTM3) in order to be awarded the badge, if you haven't attended NESA or similar program (by the way, I know of one person who graduated from NESA last year, but didn't get qualified and wasn't awarded the badge). The same is said of CAP aeronautical badges (solo pilot, pilot, ballon pilot, observer, etc.). If you're qualified, though, you are also current, right? The regulation says "Be qualified" not "Have been qualified", correct? Okay.

This same regulation states that you have to be "Current and qualified..." (emphasis mine) to be awarded the ES Patch. Why add "current" only for the patch? If they don't mean what CAP Knowledgebase and others are interpreting, then why use that specific word, which is not used with any other badge in that regulation? It seems to me that if that's not the intent, then adding that extra word just make things confusing.

[Eclipse]

So you don't have to be "current" to be awarded the Ground Team Badge, just "qualified"? Hmm... There seems to be a disconnect there since you can't have one without the other.

No.  You can still get the GT badge at NESA and not be current or qualified, or at least you could when 35-6 was last updated.

The exact wording of the regulation for the Basic Ground Team Badge is "1) Be qualified as a CAP ground team member in accordance with the CAP 60-series regulations or 2) Graduate from the CAP National Ground Search And Rescue School Advanced Course or equivalent program..." (emphasis mine) So obviously, you have to be "qualified" as a ground team member (i.e. GTM3) in order to be awarded the badge, if you haven't attended NESA or similar program (by the way, I know of one person who graduated from NESA last year, but didn't get qualified and wasn't awarded the badge). The same is said of CAP aeronautical badges (solo pilot, pilot, ballon pilot, observer, etc.). If you're qualified, though, you are also current, right? The regulation says "Be qualified" not "Have been qualified", correct? Okay.

The problem is that you're quoting regulations that are no longer in synch.  Back in 2002, when 35-6 was last revised,
it was not only possible, but common for members, especially cadets, to come back from NESA with a GT badge, yet still not
be qualified as GTMs.  Generally this was because of the lack of First Aid training, which many never received or cared about.
They remained in trainee status, and were never qualified, yet were compliant on wearing the GT badge.

This same regulation states that you have to be "Current and qualified..." (emphasis mine) to be awarded the ES Patch. Why add "current" only for the patch? If they don't mean what CAP Knowledgebase and others are interpreting, then why use that specific word, which is not used with any other badge in that regulation? It seems to me that if that's not the intent, then adding that extra word just make things confusing.

Again, 35-6 predates the "permanent" award (at least system-wise) of the patch, or any other badges.

As you say the KB is interpreting, which as were routinely point out is beyond the scope and authority of the SMEs who answer those questions.
The reg indicates how the patch is awarded, and since there is no verbiage anywhere that requires it be removed, there's no interpretation to make.

Why the redundant terms? No idea, especially since in this context "current" and "qualified" mean the exact same thing and are interchangeable.
You can't be "current" without being "qualified" and you can't be "qualified" without being "current".

The only other status' are "Trainee" or "expired", and you can't be "current" or "qualified" when you are "trainee" or "expired".

[SarDragon]

Qualified and current are separate.

Qualified means that you have completed the requirements to hold the position. Current means that you your proficiency is meets or exceeds an established minimum.

For example, a pilots certificate never expires, but his currency does. If he doesn't fly for a number of months/years, all he needs is to pass a medical and demonstrate proficiency in order to fly again. The same system mostly works for ES ratings. In our ES world, if you've lapsed long enough, you get purged from the system, and have to start over.

[Eclipse]

In our ES world, if you've lapsed long enough, you get purged from the system, and have to start over.

You don't get purged, you drop to trainee status.