Senior Members in Formation?

[coudano]

Yeh we wear hats during uniform inspection, even if it's inside.

[NIN]

<snippage>

As a commander, I suggested to my deputy commander that he take charge of the senior formation (once we had enough seniors to actually stand in formation and not look utterly lame.

Just out of curiosity, how many is generally enough? And, where does the flight usually stand in relation to the cadets? I haven't been able to find the answer to that.

The senior flight was literally the "senior" flight and thus occupies the "right of the line."   

From the commander's position in front of the unit, it was (left to right): Seniors Flight, Alpha Flight, Bravo Flight, Charlie or NCO Training Flight, Basic Flight.

Now, we did make a "Composite Squadron adjustment" and that was the Cadet First Sergeant fell the "cadet" side of the squadron in, aligned off the senior flight (we had an expansion joint in the concrete floor that we used as a baseline).  The seniors were generally at attention while the shirt got his report.  The cadet commander would get his report from the shirt, and then face about.  The senior flight commander would take x steps forward to align himself with the cadet commander (it often varied a step or two, depending on how tall the 1SG was, etc) and I'd get my report from the Deputy for Seniors or XO and the Cadet Commander (my Deputy for Cadets preferred to prowl the back of the formation looking for knee-lockers after our 2nd or 3rd "splat" cadet...). The senior flight commander could probably have stayed back at the normal flight commander distance, but it looked weird when you'd have 1 flight commander reporting to the CO and then this other guy in front of 3-4 flight commanders reporting, too.   If commands needed to be echoed, of course on the cadet side you had an "extra echelon" in there, so the cadet commander would echo the command and the senior flight commander would echo along with the cadet flight commanders.

That was a personal preference to a "way that looked mostly right and wasn't covered in the D&C manual.."  It came off smoother than it reads here.

[Private Investigator]

Don't ask why this is in B&W, but BITD our seniors formed up every single meeting.  Here is a smaller formation of just 8 or 9 seniors, but we often boasted as many as 15 to 20.

I always thought it to be a positive thing and gave the squadron commander an opportunity to have everyone's attention for opening/closing announcements and recognition.

That is also great for espirit de corps. Also all your Seniors in the same uniform, impressive too.   :clap:

[Walkman]

Also all your Seniors in the same uniform, impressive too.   :clap:

Wasn't there a time that all SMs could wear AF style uniforms, regardless of H/W? Wondering if this shot was during that time...

[Luis R. Ramos]

Nope, never was. As far as I can remember - up to 1990 at least, there have been Ht / Wt / Grooming standards.

Some seniors ignored them.

Flyer

[Eclipse]

Nope, never was. As far as I can remember - up to 1990 at least, there have been Ht / Wt / Grooming standards.

Some seniors ignored them.

Up until the introduction of the blue field uniforms in the early 2000's, members could wear the camo BDUs without
grade if they did not meet height or grooming standards.

[Luis R. Ramos]

That is true about the BDU, but when the OP posted "AF style uniforms," I assumed he/she was referring to the Blues only.

Flyer

[EMT-83]

Nope, never was. As far as I can remember - up to 1990 at least, there have been Ht / Wt / Grooming standards.

Some seniors ignored them.

Up until the introduction of the blue field uniforms in the early 2000's, members could wear the camo BDUs without grade if they did not meet height or grooming standards.

As in "you're not too heavy, you're too short" to wear the AF uniform? 

[Eclipse]

Nope, never was. As far as I can remember - up to 1990 at least, there have been Ht / Wt / Grooming standards.

Some seniors ignored them.

Up until the introduction of the blue field uniforms in the early 2000's, members could wear the camo BDUs without grade if they did not meet height or grooming standards.

As in "you're not too heavy, you're too short" to wear the AF uniform? 

No one wants a bunch of you little fellers running around playing Army!

[okeecap]

I do not agree with the height and weight standards to a degree, but there is a guy in our squadron who does not meet H/W but he is not in any way fat he is a cop and quite fit but he is almost 50lbs over, now on that note there is another guy who looks pretty fat but is within h/w.  now it should be a case by case because just being more than the AF say does not mean you will make the uniform look bad.  Though I am within the standards i personally disagree with H/W for CAP and the military.  The military should be able to take all healthy candidates who want to serve the did long ago.

[RogueLeader]

I do not agree with the height and weight standards to a degree, but there is a guy in our squadron who does not meet H/W but he is not in any way fat he is a cop and quite fit but he is almost 50lbs over, now on that note there is another guy who looks pretty fat but is within h/w.  now it should be a case by case because just being more than the AF say does not mean you will make the uniform look bad. 

Most commanders don't want to be the one making that call.  It makes for less drama if a reg says it.

Enforcement is another issue.

[Eclipse]

I do not agree with the height and weight standards to a degree, but there is a guy in our squadron who does not meet H/W but he is not in any way fat he is a cop and quite fit but he is almost 50lbs over, now on that note there is another guy who looks pretty fat but is within h/w.  now it should be a case by case because just being more than the AF say does not mean you will make the uniform look bad.  Though I am within the standards i personally disagree with H/W for CAP and the military.  The military should be able to take all healthy candidates who want to serve the did long ago.

Few people 50lbs over the CAP chart are "not fat", that's a LOT of extra muscle, and he won't be able to buy USAF shirts anyway, nor
is he probably capable of lifting his arms high enough to salute.

[okeecap]

This member it was more of the BDUs that he wanted to wear.

[Stonewall]

Wasn't there a time that all SMs could wear AF style uniforms, regardless of H/W? Wondering if this shot was during that time...

Yes, and I think this was was pre-silly BBDU.  It was a good time for sure.

[Garibaldi]

Wasn't there a time that all SMs could wear AF style uniforms, regardless of H/W? Wondering if this shot was during that time...

Yes, and I think this was was pre-silly BBDU.  It was a good time for sure.

I remember seeing very obese SMs wearing the pickle suits. Then...then...the SMURF SUIT was born. Oh, the humanity. I remember when it was on trial in Florida(?) and most everyone was praying it wouldn't catch on. It did, but it died a slow, unnatural death. Slooooooowwwwwww.

[AngelWings]

Why would anyone obese stuff themselves in the picklesuit? You'd look like a green sausage running around? I am entitled to talk, I am a former big guy myself 

As for Seniors standing in formation, I could see an opportunity to have a cadet or two from the senior staff teach Seniors how to stand at formation in a composite squadron! It would be one helluva sight, that is for sure 

[Luis R. Ramos]

As to the Smurf suit...

An uncle gave me a white stocking cap. I just did not make the connection. One day I was wearing that blue suit and I put on the cap...

OhhHHHHHHHH the INhumanity!!!!!

Flyer

[Stonewall]

You can see in the pic I posted in page one, the larger guy in the picture.  He was way over max weight standards and to be quite honest, he didn't look bad in BDUs.

For our squadron, it just made sense to have SMs in formation.  We didn't do it to make cadets feel good, or show that we could do it too, we just did it.  The CC would address the whole squadron on the armory's drill floor and it would have looked like crap if the cadets were looking sharp in formation while seniors stood around in a gaggle.

To be honest, I miss it...A LOT!

ETA:  Below is a pic of my current squadron (I'm not active, nor am I in this pic).  I really miss everyone wearing the same uniform.

[Stonewall]

I found another (B&W) pic from the same time the other one was taken.  Here, the cadets are in the foreground with the seniors (more than the 1st pic on page 1) in the background.

Notice how EVERYONE, especially the cadets, are in the SAME UNI-FORM.  This, versus the uniform of my current squadron in a mix of uniforms.  The bottom pic is my old squadron too.

[Luis R. Ramos]

No, EMT.

As in with that weight, you are too short for that uniform!

I have participated in only one encampment, as what was known as TAC officer, I think there is now a different name or designation. I was talking to a co-TAC officer, there were 2 TACs per flight. This guy tells me he was a high-performing AD USAF NCO but had to get out because his commander judged he was too heavy and did not pass the exam.

He told me a story in which his unit had to take one test running as a unit. Although the commander was within the correct HT-WT standards, she was so exhausted she was almost ready to drop out. My co-TAC stated he told another NCO "you carry her I will carry her equipment" on top of his own equipment which was an M-60 machine gun. The unit finished the run, everyone with no demerits.

One night we went on a night map reading exercise. At the end, one cadet officer, he was 18 or 19 years old, drops water on my co-TAC. Both start running, the cadet to evade the TAC, the TAC to grab the cadet. The TAC was about 40, heavy-looking, but he managed to keep up with the cadet, one hair too short of the cadet.

Tell me if a 40-year-old, stocky-looking, can keep up with an 18 or 20-year-old can be considered fit or not. Either he is fit, or there is something seriously wrong with that cadet.

Flyer