Squadron Patch Approval Process

[Shotgun]

My unit is in the process of creating an updated squadron patch that more closely follows the standards set forth by AFI 84-105.

We are submitting the patch for approval by the Wing CC IAW CAPM 39-1.

However, 39-1 does not really specify the mechanism or process for the approval. I guess technically, verbal approval would suffice, but we wish some sort of written proof of the approval

I'm just curious to what other unit's have done to document their patch's approval.

Our unit will be creating an official memo for the Squadron CC to submit to the Wing CC with a graphic version of the patch and the blazon added as attachment. I'm hoping that we will get an memo approving the patch in return which we can then stick in our files.

Has anyone taken another track? How do you prove your squadron patch was approved by your Wing King

[arajca]

What you're doing is basically the process.

The only other item to add is to send a patch with the graphic and blazon to the National Historian for archiving once approved. Some wing historians like getting one as well.

[GroundHawg]

Im going to go on my first captalk rant, so please bear with me.

As of the 2011 National Board, the Wing Commanders no longer have the authority to approve patches. There is now an office of CAP Heraldry that has to approve all new squadron patches. There are certain requriements that the patch MUST have, and others that patch MUST NOT have. But, you can not get the requriements in writing, as they dont exsist. You have to submit a write up with the design as to what the significance of the design is.

We had been wearing a patch that was for years and requested a replacement letter of approval with our design meaning write up, and our patch design was denied. So even though we had it approved at one time, had been reimbursed for the patches cost by wing, and were only requesting a replacement letter, we now can no longer wear our squadron patch. DUMB.

All this drama, and yet I cant find a single regulation or update that actually says this new process is the "law". I do have several emails from the so called CAP office of heraldry, that as far as I can tell from regulations, does not exsist. If I were a wing king, until they actually updated the process ON PAPER, I would approve patches based on current regulations.

If anyone would like a copy of the emails I have concerning this, I would be more than happy to supply them.

Rant over. 

[Eclipse]

Office of CAP what now?

Cite please.

[RiverAux]

Thats an interesting rant -- a claim that a new office has been created with authority over this process but that you can't find any reg to back it up. 

The obvious answer is that no such office has been created and that you have been misinformed. 

[Shotgun]

Im going to go on my first captalk rant, so please bear with me.

As of the 2011 National Board, the Wing Commanders no longer have the authority to approve patches. There is now an office of CAP Heraldry that has to approve all new squadron patches.

. . .

If anyone would like a copy of the emails I have concerning this, I would be more than happy to supply them.

I've done a lot of research on the creation of our unit's insignia and this is the first I've ever heard of this. There has been no mention of this topic in the meeting minutes, regs, knowledge base, eServices, Volunteer, or CAP community forums that I can find.

In addition, there is no "Office of Heraldry" contact info listed on the CAP website.
 
I'd be more than happy to comply with such a new procedure, but I'm pretty sure a series of email message don't qualify as official policy.

UPDATE:  I did find a mention of an "Office of CAP Heraldry" in a CAP Historian PPT presentation. However it was listed as a "Future Historical Project".  Future Historical?   (Kind of oxymoronic    )

Link

--Edit: Fixed Link Code.  —Pylon

[Pylon]

I don't think an "Office of Heraldry" is a bad idea to advise commanders as to the appropriateness of squadron emblem designs, to make recommendations to commanders, or assist with units requesting design assistance but I fail to see how some undocumented, nebulous office of a staff function at NHQ could take authority given in writing by CAP regulation to Wing Commanders to govern within their own Wings.

[GroundHawg]

Here is part of the email reply that gives some insight on the situation. This was to Kentucky Wing Commander Col. Robert Koob.

"Col.

Maj Gen. Rick bowling when he was National Commander authorized Region and Wing Commanders authority to change patches without the approval of a higher authority i.e. National Headquarters.

At the winter 2012 National Board we established the office of CAP heraldry, this will appear in upcoming regulations that the office of heraldry will review all patches and submit their recommendations to the approving authority.


Bob, We are trying to reestablish like the Air Force and like CAP prior to 2002 that National Headquarters has input and possibly the final approval on all unit patches. As discussed at the National Board what we wear on BDU uniforms reflects and must fit the same profile as worn by CAP – Air Force blue uniform.

FYI I sent the wing patch attachment as a guide to show examples on how the CAP prop and triangle have been used in the past.



A little background information the Institute of Heraldry which is a branch of the Army's Adjutant general and Quartermaster general corps is the official designers of all US military awards and decorations, in fact they designed all of the CAP WWII insignias and postwar awards up until 1964

whereas in today's military the individuals Chiefs of staff and secretaries of the military usually have final approval on unit insignias and crests in many instances it is where the office of heraldry also provided guidance and support in the design. That's what we are trying to do with the CAP Office of Heraldry as a place and a point to maintain standardization and more so provided guidance and support.



Hope this clarifies things

Regards

Len Blascovich, CAP/HO"

[GroundHawg]

And to us....

"I thought I was correct on this issue but wanted to make sure.  See below . . .  Winter Boards in February of 2012 established the office of CAP Heraldry and was approved by the wing and region commanders.  The regulations have not been updated yet so I can't point you to the regulations until they catch up.  All unit patches now have to be approved by wing, region, and national before they can be worn on a CAP uniform.



s/v

Bob Koob, Colonel, CAP

Commander, Kentucky Wing"

[Eclipse]

The regulations have not been updated yet so..

...so nothing has changed.

[RiverAux]

Any citation for the approval of this office? 
If its not a reg now, its probably not going to be anytime soon given the governance changes. 

[EMT-83]

... We had been wearing a patch that was for years and requested a replacement letter of approval with our design meaning write up, and our patch design was denied. So even though we had it approved at one time, had been reimbursed for the patches cost by wing, and were only requesting a replacement letter, we now can no longer wear our squadron patch. DUMB...

Why? There is no need to have such a letter be on file. Wear the patch, and move onto something important.

[Eclipse]

... We had been wearing a patch that was for years and requested a replacement letter of approval with our design meaning write up, and our patch design was denied. So even though we had it approved at one time, had been reimbursed for the patches cost by wing, and were only requesting a replacement letter, we now can no longer wear our squadron patch. DUMB...

Why? There is no need to have such a letter be on file. Wear the patch, and move onto something important.

You've got to be able to prove the insignia was approved in order to wear it.  Whether that means a signed cert, letter from the wing cc, or inclusion in a supplement, no proof, no patch, or at least the next higher HQ could tell you to remove them.

[EMT-83]

... We had been wearing a patch that was for years and requested a replacement letter of approval with our design meaning write up, and our patch design was denied. So even though we had it approved at one time, had been reimbursed for the patches cost by wing, and were only requesting a replacement letter, we now can no longer wear our squadron patch. DUMB...

Why? There is no need to have such a letter be on file. Wear the patch, and move onto something important.

You've got to be able to prove the insignia was approved in order to wear it.  Whether that means a signed cert, letter from the wing cc, or inclusion in a supplement, no proof, no patch, or at least the next higher HQ could tell you to remove them.

I don't buy it. The one obscure sentence on Table 6-4 doesn't event hint at this.

[RiverAux]

I think it is possible that most squadron patches were approved so far back in the past that there isn't any extant documentation of their approval.  Heck, most squadrons don't even have a charter certificate and for most of them I doubt CAP even knows when they were chartered. 

[EMT-83]

I can see it now. Someone from a higher echelon walks into my squadron and demands to see a 40 year-old memo authorizing our patch, or we have to remove it. Right.

[Eclipse]

I can see it now. Someone from a higher echelon walks into my squadron and demands to see a 40 year-old memo authorizing our patch, or we have to remove it. Right.

One of the first things I did when I took over as Group CC was address the legitimacy and absence of unit insignia for my squadrons - those that didn't have one were instructed to begin working on one, and those that did needed to produce the approvals and in some cases redesign theirs for compliance with the general heraldry guidelines (the latter was actually a directive from the Wing CC).

For those with a compliant insignia but no substantiation, it was a simple matter of having wing (re)approve it and include it in the 39-1 supplement.
At least in my wing, unless your insignia is approved and included in the sup, you can't wear it.

And yes, the unit that had purchased 200 patches, in direct violation of the wing CC's memo for units not to order anything for non-compliant insignia
until the patch was redesigned and approved, wound up with a drawer full of unusable cloth.  (I mean seriously, who orders 200 patches for a unit of 20
members, most of whom don't even need a patch?)

[arajca]

(I mean seriously, who orders 200 patches for a unit of 20 members, most of whom don't even need a patch?)

Pricing. In many cases, the total cost of 200 patches is less expensive than 20, especially if you're using overseas companies.

[EMT-83]

One of the first things I did when I took over as Group CC was address the legitimacy and absence of unit insignia for my squadrons - those that didn't have one were instructed to begin working on one, and those that did needed to produce the approvals and in some cases redesign theirs for compliance with the general heraldry guidelines (the latter was actually a directive from the Wing CC).

There is no CAP regulation that requires "compliance with the general heraldry guidelines" or any need to redesign existing patches.

[a2capt]

What's next, an imaginary regulation that says only the Big V can make them, and an SUI item showing Vanguard invoices?