Uniform for Augmentation

[SAR-EMT1]

All right Dnall, Ill accept that.  I am in agreement that the CG Aux is not the
end-all-be-all as an example. My only concern is to protect us from the inevitable few who will do their utmost to milk the program, the uniform, and the fact that they are on base for all its worth and then some.

As for any device to distinguish us: I think it would only be needed on the Blues... the tapes on the BDUs and Corporates stand out enough on their own I would think.

[DNall]

I think gray slides & nameplates are extremely distinctive. The only uniform I think you'd need to look at is the green flight suit, and you see them not just letting but asking for Kach & his guys to wear it on that duty. I think the sewn on white (gold) on blue grade would be plenty strong to make that one distinguishable.

[DrJbdm]

Speaking of people trying to be more distinctive in uniforms, I saw a CAP Officer wearing the flight cap with the cap pushed down on his head almost as far as it would go. When I tried to gently correct him on how it should be worn he told me he wears it this way in order to be more distinctive from the AF. I thought that was the worse excuse I have heard for wearing a uniform wrong. it made him look sloppy and made it look like he could care less how a military uniform should be worn. (he was wearing a green flight suit)

  I think CAP needs to have an on going class on uniform wear. it's obvious that unit CCs are not correcting the problems. I think CAP needs to heavily address this issue.

[RiverAux]

Again, screw the CGAux, they are not an example for us to follow. Things that work in the CG don't work for us & things that work for CAP/AF cannot work for CG.

But since things actually AREN'T working for CAP, at least as far as augmentation and closeness to parent service, we need to strongly consider following their example. 

Rank insignia could very well be an issue that could be a roadblock in this process.  I know you want to drastically improve CAP members so that everyone will believe we deserve the rank, but we're certainly not in that place right now and probably won't be for a while even if you got all your druthers. 

Just as an FYI, according to a recent wing newsletter from a SWR Wing, a CAP officer got in a major incident regarding base entry and tried throwing their "weight" around to the enlisted guards.  This wasn't directly related to augmentation, but that sort of attitude,which sometimes goes with CAP rank, can cause problems.  I see removing the rank as one way to emphasize our role and to ensure that sort of thing doesn't happen.  The other issue, as mentioned before, really centers around the fact that outside of a few professionals, most CAP members won't be augmenting in positions appropriate to their CAP rank.  The sort of dissonance set up by that wouldn't be good for anybody. 

[DrJbdm]

No, rank isn't an issue. We're the ones making it an issue. Honestly, removing rank wouldn't move us any closer to augmentation with the AF, changing our image would and that starts with increasing our standards. And while yes, the vast majority of us on here believe we need to radically up the standards for being a CAP Officer you are right we are not there yet nor have we even started the process. And as for that CAP Officer who had that incident at the base...well, he should be 2Bed immediately and the details made public to our members to serve as a warning of what will happen if you screw up. Every organization will have it's problems, it all in how you deal with the problems. CAP should have better education/training for it's members and better enforcement of the regulations.

[brasda91]

Beyond insulting them with bad appearance, behavior, or standards, I promise you the AF doesn't give one flip about our uniforms in any context; and, no airman on the planet thinks you're a real officer.

That's not true.  Back several years ago, the AF sent out "Tiger Teams" to various units across the the Nation, to see exactly how the uniforms were being worn.  There had been problems with the way CAP members were wearing the uniform.  It was so bad, the AF was on the verge of canning CAP.

As far as an airman not mistaking you for an officer; have you not ever been on an AF base in blues, and have an airman salute you?  I have and it's because the blues are so close in style and appearance of active duty blues.  I return the salute and carry on, with a smile on my face  .

There is nothing wrong with our uniforms, just the way they are displayed, when worn by members who do not meet the weight and grooming standards.  It is a disgrace when I see an overweight member wearing bdu's 2 sizes too small.  If the AF had a problem with our uniforms being too much like them, they would not approve them.

[DNall]

The AF has never been close to canning CAP over uniforms, but yes they've always been unhappy with the way in which we wear them, that has nothing to do with use of grade insignia on them, they have no problem with that.

I'd mention again as well that a salute in haste as you pass someone is not the same as them actually taking an order from you as legal before they verify your authority to give it. I think more often than getting saluted you'll find people that don't know what you are moving out of the way to avoid the issue. That or maybe CAP members just smell bad. 

No, rank isn't an issue. We're the ones making it an issue. Honestly, removing rank wouldn't move us any closer to augmentation with the AF, changing our image would and that starts with increasing our standards. And while yes, the vast majority of us on here believe we need to radically up the standards for being a CAP Officer you are right we are not there yet nor have we even started the process. And as for that CAP Officer who had that incident at the base...well, he should be 2Bed immediately and the details made public to our members to serve as a warning of what will happen if you screw up. Every organization will have it's problems, it all in how you deal with the problems. CAP should have better education/training for it's members and better enforcement of the regulations.

That's right on.

Far as problem members acting outside their authority. They should be charged with a crime as appropriate, that's happened a few times. That doesn't have anything to do with augmentation, it can happen anyway as things are now, which is where those examples come from. Augmenting on bases & such would not increase the frequency. Fact is the people in the augmentation program get hand picked after an interview process to make sure they (not just their skills) are right for the job. They can be thrown out at any time at the discression of the AF, the unit involved, or the CAP program coordinators. They have a lot of incentive not to screw up. Furthermore, they would be on contracts that require a numebr of service hours based on the training investment made in them, and that contract would contain conditions to hold them accountable for their behavior & performance. I don't see an issue here at all.

[RiverAux]

If the AF had a problem with our uniforms being too much like them, they would not approve them.

Well, they've approved them on the assumption, which is true for the vast majority of CAP members, that CAP people aren't mingling with AF types on bases very often and certainly not working with them side-by-side.  If CAP augmentation became the norm their expectations might change.  

That change might not be negative either.... perhaps having CAP members work more directly with the AF might lead to some positive changes in uniforms that might bring us closer to the AF.  

[brasda91]

The AF has never been close to canning CAP over uniforms, but yes they've always been unhappy with the way in which we wear them

Yes, that is it.  It was several years ago (possibly before your time) and they were looking at taking away our AF style uniforms.

[DNall]

The only time they've actually looked at taking away our AF-style uniforms is when they looked to cut the cadet program & ship us off to DOT w/ as equiv to CG. That had to do with bigger issues than how people wear thier uniforms.

What people do in uniform & the qualifty of wear are issues that many times embarass AF & for which our members aren't held accountable. However, that is a secondary factor even among the things that trouble the relationship, all of which are for now outweighed by positives. There's a lot we can do to improve that relationship significantly, and most of it is much more meaningful than uniforms, but if you need to tell your people something so they wear the stuff right then go for it.

Once again, the AF will determine what roles they are willing to take augmentees in, & every other factor of the program including uniforms to be worn in particular roles. That's nothing we need to concern ourselves with, certainly not when there are serious factors of the program that still need to be figured out & someone still has to write the proposal.

[jayleswo]

Seemed appropriate to revive this thread. NHQ and USAF announced a new augmentation program yesterday along with a new uniform!

http://www.cap.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=display&nodeID=6192&newsID=3891&year=2008&month=1

[SAR-EMT1]

After having read the news release I dont understand exactly what it is we
( CAP ) will be doing on base.

[Mustang]

Well....if the USAF was going to accept that we are in fact an true auxillary and they were not just giving us lip service about our rank and uniforms.  Any CAP uniform USAF or Corporate should be acceptable and we should wear our rank.

If they cannot accept that...then we should seriously look at our relationship with the USAF.

See, I got accused of having a bruised ego for saying essentially the same thing over on The 'Stuff.

[JayT]

Well....if the USAF was going to accept that we are in fact an true auxillary and they were not just giving us lip service about our rank and uniforms.  Any CAP uniform USAF or Corporate should be acceptable and we should wear our rank.

If they cannot accept that...then we should seriously look at our relationship with the USAF.

See, I got accused of having a bruised ego for saying essentially the same thing over on The 'Stuff.

By federal law, we're not really a 'true AF auxiliary' anymore. Sorry, but that's just how it is.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Are we just giving lip servive to wanting to help the Air Force? Or do we just want to play Air Force with uniforms and stuff?

[ddelaney103]

Well....if the USAF was going to accept that we are in fact an true auxillary and they were not just giving us lip service about our rank and uniforms.  Any CAP uniform USAF or Corporate should be acceptable and we should wear our rank.

If they cannot accept that...then we should seriously look at our relationship with the USAF.

See, I got accused of having a bruised ego for saying essentially the same thing over on The 'Stuff.

Wow, talk about postings back from the dead.

I think the AF doesn't care about our uniforms/grade as long as we're playing in our own sandbox.  The problem is when we take CAP officers and try to work them into the AF.

We're not "real" officers, yet we pretend to be all the time.  Personally, I think all AUX officers should salute any RM officer, regardless of grade and that we should have grade that doesn't look like RM grade.  Until then, we're on the border of "Slolenvalorland."