Squadron Dues

[NC Hokie]

My squadron commander and I have been discussing the possibility of implementing squadron dues and I've been sent to CAPTalk to gather some info. I'm not interested in debating the topic, so please don't post just to say that this is a bad/good idea.

If you've had experience with squadron dues, your responses to the following questions would be most helpful:

1) When were dues collected (monthly, yearly, per meeting)?
2) How much were the dues for senior members and cadets?
3) How did you handle those who couldn't or wouldn't pay?

Thanks!

[Extremepredjudice]

1. Yearly, collected with renewal.
2. Cadets is $40, I'm not sure what it is for SMs
3. Can't tell you, not my dept.

[Eclipse]

1. Annually.  Also, they should be characterized as a voluntary contribution, not "dues".  Dues are not usually deductible.
2. $25, but that was 5+ years ago.
3. With discretion and delicacy.  There are ways to attach them tot the member ship fee which makes them not "optional" and they are collected at renewal, but that's not a good idea for a number of reasons.

[Cap'n]

1. We collect dues by the trimester. (January-April, May-August, and September-December.) We allow you to pay in advanced, so some cadets will pay 45$ at the beginning of the year.
2. 15$ for each trimester, both cadets and SM's.
3. I'm not sure. I think they just allow you to pay what you can, when you can.

[RADIOMAN015]

1.  Quarterly, with an annual option, no discount for lump sum payment
2.   $15.00 a quarter/$60.00 a year for senior members.   No dues for cadets.
3.  Adult leadership pressure on member, but soon may be posted publicly for peer pressure.

Some trips out of the immediate area (e.g. Washington DC, NYC ) require the cadets to pay some money.  The squadron has some fairly successful fund raisers and a couple of non profit groups that send a donation at least once a year, and these funds are primarily utilized for the cadet program.  The dues are to cover the unit's monthly costs e.g. wireless internet, phone, administrative supplies, etc.  The unit is on a military base so all other utilities are provided for free.   
RM

   

[SarDragon]

1. Sr Sq; annual, collected in Sept, to support the Fed fiscal year scheme.
2. $50/yr
3. Unless there are extenuating circumstances, transfer to Patron status.

[FalconHatTrick]

1. $50 annually based on when you joined
2. All members
3. Restricted activities unless their were financial problems at home, which was case by case handled by the squadron commander

edit: formatting

[SARDOC]

Make sure that before any dues collected by your Squadron that you actually have the Wing Commander's written authorization to do so.

[RogueLeader]

It depended on what for,  if for building upkeep, all.  If for hangar, seniors.
Usually all at once.
3 depended on circumstances.

[Woodsy]

1.  yearly or monthly. 
2. $100 a year or $20 a month for seniors, $45 a year for cadets,  $200 maximum per family. 
3. Wont pay-   transfer out of the squadron to patron status.  Cant pay-  With compassion and understanding, including scholarships or just waiving the fee.  No active, contributing member in good standing is going to be shown the door because of financial troubles, senior or cadet.

[Shawn W.]

In my entire 16 years with CAP.. My squadron has only had a one time joiners fee of $37.00.

[rustyjeeper]

Our squadron does not collect dues thankfully.
But from time to time the topic comes up.

I can state with certainty that I am one of the more active members of my unit and I WILL NOT ever pay squadron dues of any kind. I will and do often subsudize a cadet on an activity and that is my choice to make same goes for a donation to the unit.
I pay an annual membership fee for the "priveledge" of being able to C.ome A.nd P.ay already. I find the idea that my unit needs to assess members a fee or "dues" to be insulting to say the least. And the day it happens is the day in which I leave the program. A fee or dues structure for those who do not support a unit is a differnt matter entirely. many clubs and organizations have "sweat equity" where you are assessed a fee of say 200 dollars if you do not put in at least 20 hours of labor and there is nothing wrong with that line of thinking.
You need to involve people not charge them out the door as dues would do in my case.

[SarDragon]

If you don't pay dues, what is the source of funds for unit operating expenses?

[Spaceman3750]

If you don't pay dues, what is the source of funds for unit operating expenses?

Not every unit has monthly operating expenses (rent, utilities, etc). My unit is the guest of an EAA chapter and we have 0 monthly operating expenses. We have several members that work for a rather large insurance company headquartered in my unit's hometown and we take advantage of the volunteer grants they give to all of their employees who volunteer for an organization more than 40 hours per year. That takes care of incidental expenses, and even if we didn't have that income stream our seniors would probably pick up the tab for the small here and there things that we tend to need.

[SarDragon]

Works for me.

We do have monthly expenses, and have also purchased a couple of 'nice to have' items for the airplane. I have no problems with spending the price of a nice dinner to support my unit.

[N Harmon]

My unit no longer collects dues from its membership as we are able to raise sufficient funds to operate the unit. But we did have unit dues at one time for the sole purpose of paying for a hangar to store a CAP aircraft, so...

1) Monthly, with the ability to pay ahead

2) Hangar rent was divided equally among senior member pilots, with non-pilot aircrew members representing collectively one pilot's share. Or,...

Let X be the number of senior member pilots, and Y be the number of non-pilot senior member aircrew members in the unit. Let Z be the monthly cost of renting our hangar. Senior member CAP pilots paid Z/(X+1). Non-pilot senior members who were aircrew qualified paid Z/[Y(X+1)].

Cadets, including those aircrew qualified, did not pay dues.

3) We did not have any members who could not or would not pay. If we had, such a member simply would not have been factored into the above equation.

[Pylon]

Old squadron; in the late 90's:
1. Weekly
2. $0.25 for cadets
3. Not sure; they kept a running tab for you.  Never let mine get that far behind.

Old squadron; in the early 2000's:
1. Weekly or Annually
2. $1.00/week or $50/year pre-paid
3. Not sure.

Current squadron; 2006-Present:
1. None
2. None
3. N/A
Note: We do collect a one-time $50 fee upon new cadet memberships and purchase for the cadet a basic uniform package they need (nametags, nametapes, minimum BDU and blues insignia & accessories, squadron patch & t-shirt, etc.) but this does not fund squadron operations.  Sq. operational expenses are funded by grants, an annual fund direct mail campaign, and fundraising events (airport pancake breakfast, etc.).

[bflynn]

Annualy, we collect dues at the first of the year.  We have an exemption system for new members so that someone doesn't have to pay dues immediately if they join in Dec.

I'm stretching to remember the amount, I think it's around $50.  Funds use to pay rent and utilities for the squadron office.

[Cool Mace]

1) When ever the member wanted to pay. It's recommended to pay at the beginning of the year, but when ever they can is fine.
2) We do $12 for seniors, none for cadets. We figured cadets are paying enough to join, and most don't have a job yet.
3) Haven't had to deal with this yet...

[Eclipse]

Our squadron does not collect dues thankfully.
But from time to time the topic comes up.

I can state with certainty that I am one of the more active members of my unit and I WILL NOT ever pay squadron dues of any kind. I will and do often subsudize a cadet on an activity and that is my choice to make same goes for a donation to the unit.
I pay an annual membership fee for the "priveledge" of being able to C.ome A.nd P.ay already. I find the idea that my unit needs to assess members a fee or "dues" to be insulting to say the least. And the day it happens is the day in which I leave the program. A fee or dues structure for those who do not support a unit is a differnt matter entirely. many clubs and organizations have "sweat equity" where you are assessed a fee of say 200 dollars if you do not put in at least 20 hours of labor and there is nothing wrong with that line of thinking.
You need to involve people not charge them out the door as dues would do in my case.

Seriously?

Last time I checked, utility companies, office supply stores, and Vanguard do not accept "sweat equity".  If the unit has a benefactor, so be it.
There's some units in my wing that have corporate matching contribution that rival the wing's annual budget.  In those cases a contribution
isn't necessary.

And kudos on contributing to things, but that doesn't take the place of very real expenses a successful unit will have in keeping the doors open, both figuratively and literally.

Successful units need meeting space, office supplies, awards and decs to hand our, ES tools, etc.  None of that is free, and generally they scale with the
growth and success of the unit and its activities.

"I don't have the money, times are tough..."  Fine, but recognize that the unit might not subsidize you for things others get.

"I just donated 12lbs of Gold Bullion to the unit..."  Great, thank you (x2).

"I just went to encampment, that was expense..."  Did you have fun?  Here's your ribbon, when will you be sending your annual contribution.

But saying you won't contribute to to the unit's operating expenses because you paid your member dues?  That math doesn't work.

[rustyjeeper]

If you don't pay dues, what is the source of funds for unit operating expenses?

We fundraise for our operating expenses.
Races, parking lots and begging

[rustyjeeper]

Our squadron does not collect dues thankfully.
But from time to time the topic comes up.

I can state with certainty that I am one of the more active members of my unit and I WILL NOT ever pay squadron dues of any kind. I will and do often subsudize a cadet on an activity and that is my choice to make same goes for a donation to the unit.
I pay an annual membership fee for the "priveledge" of being able to C.ome A.nd P.ay already. I find the idea that my unit needs to assess members a fee or "dues" to be insulting to say the least. And the day it happens is the day in which I leave the program. A fee or dues structure for those who do not support a unit is a differnt matter entirely. many clubs and organizations have "sweat equity" where you are assessed a fee of say 200 dollars if you do not put in at least 20 hours of labor and there is nothing wrong with that line of thinking.
You need to involve people not charge them out the door as dues would do in my case.

Seriously?

Last time I checked, utility companies, office supply stores, and Vanguard do not accept "sweat equity".  If the unit has a benefactor, so be it.
There's some units in my wing that have corporate matching contribution that rival the wing's annual budget.  In those cases a contribution
isn't necessary.

And kudos on contributing to things, but that doesn't take the place of very real expenses a successful unit will have in keeping the doors open, both figuratively and literally.

Successful units need meeting space, office supplies, awards and decs to hand our, ES tools, etc.  None of that is free, and generally they scale with the
growth and success of the unit and its activities.

"I don't have the money, times are tough..."  Fine, but recognize that the unit might not subsidize you for things others get.

"I just donated 12lbs of Gold Bullion to the unit..."  Great, thank you (x2).

"I just went to encampment, that was expense..."  Did you have fun?  Here's your ribbon, when will you be sending your annual contribution.

But saying you won't contribute to to the unit's operating expenses because you paid your member dues?  That math doesn't work."



The unit goes out and raises funds to pay it's bills!
I beleive that each member should contribute to the unit. However I do not beleive that collecting a secondary dues payment is in the best interst of the membership as a whole. I know now I spend 20 dollars weekly just to get to a meeting in gas. I personally do not have the extra five or ten bucks a week, I am lucky to have 2 or 3 in my pocket after paying bills. If I were to begin paying dues,  I would not be able to do anything else for the unit including fundraising activiteis since each of those I attend also costs me around 15-20 in fuel. Pick your poison-- have an active member who supports fundraising, or have a member who can no longer afford to show up is where I am at.

[Eclipse]

I sympathize and understand, but I don't agree.

To start, you didn't characterize your comment as "the unit doesn't need the money", which pretty much makes your "decision" to never pay dues moot, you characterized it in a way which indicated indignation at the idea because your "contributions" should be enough, and
CAP should trade in "sweat equity".

"Sweat Equity" is the only thing CAP does.  It's not like you'd be going to meetings for some other reason.  The entire point of senior
membership is service to someone else or the country.  The returns are subjective and invaluable, but that's all we do.

Commuting to meetings is not a "contribution", it's an expense for you to participate, it's also tax deductible, and no different from the rest of the room.  Some will have to come from further, some closer. 

As I said, if you're strapped, so be it - you discuss it with your CC and he should be discreet about the issue.  But just as Cadets aren't really allowed to wear civilian jackets with USAF uniforms but we allow it anyway, just because you get a pass does relieve the burden on others.

My biggest issue with your characterization is the idea that any particular member's contribution is somehow "more" than any others and
therefore they should be treated "special".

This is one of the reasons why I constantly harped on my commanders not to be fronting a lot of personal funds for activities they
wanted to do but could not raise member funds for - it gives them an inappropriate feeling of ownership, which usually lays dormant until
something doesn't go their way, and they it's "I spent blah, blah, blah, blah last year on this unit and this is how you treat me?" (etc.)

[rustyjeeper]

I sympathize and understand, but I don't agree.

To start, you didn't characterize your comment as "the unit doesn't need the money", which pretty much makes your "decision" to never pay dues moot, you characterized it in a way which indicated indignation at the idea because your "contributions" should be enough, and
CAP should trade in "sweat equity".

"Sweat Equity" is the only thing CAP does.  It's not like you'd be going to meetings for some other reason.  The entire point of senior
membership is service to someone else or the country.  The returns are subjective and invaluable, but that's all we do.

Commuting to meetings is not a "contribution", it's an expense for you to participate, it's also tax deductible, and no different from the rest of the room.  Some will have to come from further, some closer. 

As I said, if you're strapped, so be it - you discuss it with your CC and he should be discreet about the issue.  But just as Cadets aren't really allowed to wear civilian jackets with USAF uniforms but we allow it anyway, just because you get a pass does relieve the burden on others.

My biggest issue with your characterization is the idea that any particular member's contribution is somehow "more" than any others and
therefore they should be treated "special".

This is one of the reasons why I constantly harped on my commanders not to be fronting a lot of personal funds for activities they
wanted to do but could not raise member funds for - it gives them an inappropriate feeling of ownership, which usually lays dormant until
something doesn't go their way, and they it's "I spent blah, blah, blah, blah last year on this unit and this is how you treat me?" (etc.)

This is a discussion and that is all.
Our unit is not charging dues and if it did I would simply quietly disappear from CAP, with little regret and join somewhere else. What I spend is my business and no one elses. I will not get into a personal finance discussion with my commander or anyone else. I simply stated generic facts here to state my reasoning. I see a lot of seniors who are involved for one reason only AIRCRAFT and cheap flying. If all of those members also regularly supported fundraising events with equal enthusiasm money would be no object in our unit.{side note: recently I have observed more involvement and participation than in the past, which is a good thing for us}
No member should be treated as more valuable or "special" that is not what was meant.
I beleive that each should pay their own way and if someone cannot and you find out then you help out.
If all worked and solicited funds actively there would be no problems. Our unit of course needs more money, who or what does not? BUT that said we have always gotten along without dues and I see no reason to change that. The more you have the more you tend to spend.
If ever it happens in my unit, I wont ask for preferential treatment or cry broke- I will simply leave and am sure that others also are in the same boat.

[Private Investigator]

My current unit gets $50 annually. We still park our plane in the weather.

My previous Units never had dues and we had corporate aircraft too.

[bflynn]

Our unit is not charging dues and if it did I would simply quietly disappear from CAP, with little regret and join somewhere else. What I spend is my business and no one elses.

As you should, that's the nature of a volunteer organization.  If the unit changes something that no longer aligns with you, then you go somewhere else.   There's no drama attached to it, you're just pursuing your own interests. 

As I said above, my unit has squadron dues annually.  We also have a corner office suite in the GA terminal at Raleigh, which is financed by the dues.  I personally believe it's worth paying the dues to support the office.  I'm sure there are others who do not, so they don't join our unit.

[lordmonar]

Our unit is not charging dues and if it did I would simply quietly disappear from CAP, with little regret and join somewhere else. What I spend is my business and no one elses.

As you should, that's the nature of a volunteer organization.  If the unit changes something that no longer aligns with you, then you go somewhere else.   There's no drama attached to it, you're just pursuing your own interests. 

As I said above, my unit has squadron dues annually.  We also have a corner office suite in the GA terminal at Raleigh, which is financed by the dues.  I personally believe it's worth paying the dues to support the office.  I'm sure there are others who do not, so they don't join our unit.

+1

No one has to be in CAP.....if you don't like the policies of your unit......go else where.
I do think that the attitude is a little harsh.  Dues are there to help the unit accompish the mission.  I assume that you (rustyjeeper) are there to accomplish the mission as well as meeting your personal goals/needs/wants.

It is nice that your unit has funds comming in from somewhere else that they don't have to ask for the members to support the unit.....but a lot of units....the only funds they have come from dues.   And lack of funds severly limits what you can or cannot do as a unit.

[MajorM]

Ours are $72 for seniors, nothing for cadets.  We plead, cajole, beg and thank to get compliance.  We also post an "honor roll" for those who have paid. Decisions on use of the member generated funds is limited to those who have paid.

I pay though really its a pittance compared to all the other things one pays for (having just eaten $400 for a lock-in).  I go back and forth on its usefulness, but if we had 100% compliance it would generate almost $4000 so I see why we do it.