1st Sergeant Diamond

[lordmonar]

3)  The First Segeant diamon is still autorised as per KB...

Please forgive my accronym ignorance. What's "KB".

...The Commander can name people to any irrregardless regardless of grade.

No offense intended, but I'm a school teacher and that one really bugs me.

KB is Knowledge Base on the CAP web site.

[AngelWings]

3)  The First Segeant diamon is still autorised as per KB...

Please forgive my accronym ignorance. What's "KB".

...The Commander can name people to any irrregardless regardless of grade.

No offense intended, but I'm a school teacher and that one really bugs me.

An abbreviation of the KGB, our secret commanding organization. Just kidding, it is the Knowledge Base, the CAP idea of wikipedia.

[Spaceman3750]

the CAP idea of wikipedia.

Except it's not a wiki and the answers are reasonably authoritative, not the result of hundreds of edits by anonymous individuals.

[SamFranklin]

A historical comment might help here.

Nowadays, C/MSgt thru C/CMSgt chevrons are available with the diamond already built-in, so to speak.

When the diamond was first created, pre-1998, IIRC, cadet NCO grades stopped at C/MSgt, and it was the old-style MSgt insignia, with no stripes going upward. The diamond was sold separately, which is what you see at the link above. My guess is that when Vanguard purchased the CAPMart inventory, these individual 1Sgt diamonds, though essentially obsolete, were in the mix.

As one of the cadets above said, the individual diamond creates confusion because you can physically match it with any insignia you want, right or wrong. Of course, the intent of the 1Sgt program is for it to go to the top 3 cadet NCO grades.

[AngelWings]

the CAP idea of wikipedia.

Except it's not a wiki and the answers are reasonably authoritative, not the result of hundreds of edits by anonymous individuals.

Wikihater? A lot of nerds sit down and make a non paid living adding correct information to articles. They are the true armchair warriors editing wikipedia so it is correct. I get it is very hard to trust, but it is an invaluable tool. Plus, any website can be full of bad info too. The only problem I commonly have with wikipedia data is it being out of data, sometimes out of date for years.

[Spaceman3750]

the CAP idea of wikipedia.

Except it's not a wiki and the answers are reasonably authoritative, not the result of hundreds of edits by anonymous individuals.

Wikihater? A lot of nerds sit down and make a non paid living adding correct information to articles. They are the true armchair warriors editing wikipedia so it is correct. I get it is very hard to trust, but it is an invaluable tool. Plus, any website can be full of bad info too. The only problem I commonly have with wikipedia data is it being out of data, sometimes out of date for years.

Actually, I frequently use it for general information (though never for academic research or anything else in which I would rather not be wrong). However, to say that the KB is the "Wikipedia of CAP" is simply wrong, if for no other reason than the KB is not a wiki (which, by the way, is an actual term/concept and is where the brand "Wikipedia" comes from).

When I do research beyond "I'm going to go read about something today" I prefer to read things written by subject matter experts (like articles from trade organizations, for example) than someone who has made it their "life's calling" to know enough about everything to put it on Wikipedia.

[BillB]

Does anyone still have a CAPMart catalog? I believe the 1st Sgt diamond was listed in it.

[lordmonar]

Does anyone still have a CAPMart catalog? I believe the 1st Sgt diamond was listed in it.

Yes it was.
This argument has been going on for as long as the diamond has existed AFIK.

[SarDragon]

Tick-tock. Tick-tock. Tick-tock. 

[Dad2-4]

So we've all seen the diamond used, and it's available through Vanguard, and it's not in 39-1. Where exactly is the authorization for it, or did I miss it in this thread somewhere? I don't consider KB to be authorization unless it quotes a reg or ICL. Common practice and acceptance doesn't make it correct.

[Eclipse]

Previous revisions of 52-16 contained the authorization, then people argued that 52-16 was not a uniform reg, so it was removed with the intention of adding it into the next version of 39-1.

Now you know...the rest of the story.

[MIKE]

I don't consider KB to be authorization unless it quotes a reg or ICL. Common practice and acceptance doesn't make it correct

Then it is not authorized.

[Sapper168]

So we've all seen the diamond used, and it's available through Vanguard, and it's not in 39-1. Where exactly is the authorization for it, or did I miss it in this thread somewhere? I don't consider KB to be authorization unless it quotes a reg or ICL. Common practice and acceptance doesn't make it correct.

The position of first sgt and flight sgt are both talked about in CAPP 52-15 'Cadet Staff Handbook'.  The particular organization of the cadets is actually up to the squadron itself.  Page 42 and 43 give a synopsis of the duties and expectations that generally entail what being a 1st sgt is.

[helper]

I think a previous version of the Cadet Program regulations had a reference that only a master sergeant (the three grades) could be a first sergeant. But, I have not be able to locate the reference. KB appears to agree by it's reference to the same policy in USAF  "... it follows the Air Force model for first sergeants who are either MSgts, SMSgts, or CMSgts ". 

IMHO The diamond insignia for a first sergeant looks odd when worn separately with c/SSgt or c/TSgt as compared with the embedded diamond that is worn in the master sergeant insignia.

[AngelWings]

the CAP idea of wikipedia.

Except it's not a wiki and the answers are reasonably authoritative, not the result of hundreds of edits by anonymous individuals.

Wikihater? A lot of nerds sit down and make a non paid living adding correct information to articles. They are the true armchair warriors editing wikipedia so it is correct. I get it is very hard to trust, but it is an invaluable tool. Plus, any website can be full of bad info too. The only problem I commonly have with wikipedia data is it being out of data, sometimes out of date for years.

Actually, I frequently use it for general information (though never for academic research or anything else in which I would rather not be wrong). However, to say that the KB is the "Wikipedia of CAP" is simply wrong, if for no other reason than the KB is not a wiki (which, by the way, is an actual term/concept and is where the brand "Wikipedia" comes from).

When I do research beyond "I'm going to go read about something today" I prefer to read things written by subject matter experts (like articles from trade organizations, for example) than someone who has made it their "life's calling" to know enough about everything to put it on Wikipedia.

Same here. I simply over did that, sorry.

[SarDragon]

IMHO, I think NHQ should tell Vanguard to discontinue selling it, because it is no longer needed.

[lordmonar]

IMHO, I think NHQ should tell Vanguard to discontinue selling it, because it is no longer needed.

That would certainly solve a lot of argument. 

[PHall]

IMHO, I think NHQ should tell Vanguard to discontinue selling it, because it is no longer needed.

Yeah, right.    Vanguard give up a source of revenue?    Not frickin likely!

[lordmonar]

IMHO, I think NHQ should tell Vanguard to discontinue selling it, because it is no longer needed.

Yeah, right.    Vanguard give up a source of revenue?    Not frickin likely!

Why not? 

I don't hold Vanguard in the "evil conspiracy" box. 

[SarDragon]

How many of these things do you think they sell in a year? I bet they pay more to the inventory clerk every year, for the length of time it takes to do that inventory, than they make selling 1st Sgt diamonds.