We're Building a UAV

[JetDriver777]

Sweet.   if you need any technical assistance let me know.  Ive been flying the FPV planes for years...  anything i can do to help

[davidsinn]

I think this is a really cool AE project.

If you wanted to dual purpose over to ES I think a more practical "over the horizon" DF platform for a ground team would be a balloon with a 200' tether and a camera and Becker hanging underneath.

[♠SARKID♠]

I think this is a really cool AE project.

If you wanted to dual purpose over to ES I think a more practical "over the horizon" DF platform for a ground team would be a balloon with a 200' tether and a camera and Becker hanging underneath.

All of my balloons are going to be taken up for my high altitude antenna, one for the RC plane, one for regular commo.  But that's another thread 

[davidsinn]

I think this is a really cool AE project.

If you wanted to dual purpose over to ES I think a more practical "over the horizon" DF platform for a ground team would be a balloon with a 200' tether and a camera and Becker hanging underneath.

All of my balloons are going to be taken up for my high altitude antenna, one for the RC plane, one for regular commo.  But that's another thread 

Nice.

[Major Lord]

Any RC airframe will work... 

you add a autopilot...
http://diydrones.com/notes/ArduPilot

Then you add a video camera with transmitter.
http://www.dpcav.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16628&cat=279&page=1
http://www.dpcav.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16299&cat=264&page=1

plus a on screen display...
http://www.rangevideo.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=135


Under $1000 you have an RC plane that can:

-Transmit real time video (Line of sight)
-Video is embedded with all the data you need to fly the plane soley off the video feed
-Autpilot provides a data link with real time telemetry
-real time "command and control" link to change any mission parameter while in flight
-Autopilot has unlimited waypoints, loiter, and return to home function


you can easily add a radio scannner tuned to 121.5 homer freq that re-transmits the scanner audio via the audio carrier on the video feed.

possibilities are endless.

HOWEVER
you must fall under the "Hobbiest" category and follow all AMA rules.   Under 400', always maintain visual site.  Must have a spotter if the pilot is flying via video feed, the spotter must be able to take control if needed.  (See AMA rules for all the "FPV" and "UAV" caviats).

In about 1 week mine will be completely built out as discribed above (Exept the video and data links willl be in the Amateur Radio spectrum).

Its not lawful to retransmit the 121.5 signal between radio services, so you will have to convert it to telemetry data. Building an autopilot also seems a little over the top for a device that you have to maintain a visual on, but at least it can find its way home if your command system fails!

Major Lord

[lordmonar]

You know....this whole UAV craze was started back in the 70's by to israili military types.

One was a HAM and the other and RC enthusiats.

http://www.vectorsite.net/twuav_10.html

[JetDriver777]

Any RC airframe will work... 

you add a autopilot...
http://diydrones.com/notes/ArduPilot

Then you add a video camera with transmitter.
http://www.dpcav.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16628&cat=279&page=1
http://www.dpcav.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16299&cat=264&page=1

plus a on screen display...
http://www.rangevideo.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=135


Under $1000 you have an RC plane that can:

-Transmit real time video (Line of sight)
-Video is embedded with all the data you need to fly the plane soley off the video feed
-Autpilot provides a data link with real time telemetry
-real time "command and control" link to change any mission parameter while in flight
-Autopilot has unlimited waypoints, loiter, and return to home function


you can easily add a radio scannner tuned to 121.5 homer freq that re-transmits the scanner audio via the audio carrier on the video feed.

possibilities are endless.

HOWEVER
you must fall under the "Hobbiest" category and follow all AMA rules.   Under 400', always maintain visual site.  Must have a spotter if the pilot is flying via video feed, the spotter must be able to take control if needed.  (See AMA rules for all the "FPV" and "UAV" caviats).

In about 1 week mine will be completely built out as discribed above (Exept the video and data links willl be in the Amateur Radio spectrum).

Its not lawful to retransmit the 121.5 signal between radio services, so you will have to convert it to telemetry data. Building an autopilot also seems a little over the top for a device that you have to maintain a visual on, but at least it can find its way home if your command system fails!

Major Lord

Im not doubting you but can you cite this?

  If it is the case its really not a big deal.  I can either have the COR on the 121.5 receiver trigger a relay to send a telemetry message.  or Encode the audio via IP and send it back to the ground station over a IP Data link. (3.2 ghz Ham band)

[lordmonar]

With a little circuity you can use the 121.5 signal from the DF to actually steer the plane.

The Army has a little device that they can attach a parachute that will steer the parachute to follow the transmitter carried by another jumper.

Another simple set of circuity could give you a doppeler LOB that you can send back as telemetry....along with the GPS cordinates of the plane...google map to plot the LOBs....and you can DF the ELT in no time.

[JetDriver777]

What doppler DF have you guys used>  That is reasonably priced$  I don't think i can afford a becker!

Steering the plane based off the DF vectors is pretty easy.  I hesitate due to the "must maintain visual" rule on the plane.  Dont want the plane to go out the BFE on a DF signal.   I could integrate the DF vectors onto the HUD video overlay board. almost like the display in the beckers.

[Major Lord]

Any RC airframe will work... 

you add a autopilot...
http://diydrones.com/notes/ArduPilot

Then you add a video camera with transmitter.
http://www.dpcav.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16628&cat=279&page=1
http://www.dpcav.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16299&cat=264&page=1

plus a on screen display...
http://www.rangevideo.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=135


Under $1000 you have an RC plane that can:

-Transmit real time video (Line of sight)
-Video is embedded with all the data you need to fly the plane soley off the video feed
-Autpilot provides a data link with real time telemetry
-real time "command and control" link to change any mission parameter while in flight
-Autopilot has unlimited waypoints, loiter, and return to home function


you can easily add a radio scannner tuned to 121.5 homer freq that re-transmits the scanner audio via the audio carrier on the video feed.

possibilities are endless.

HOWEVER
you must fall under the "Hobbiest" category and follow all AMA rules.   Under 400', always maintain visual site.  Must have a spotter if the pilot is flying via video feed, the spotter must be able to take control if needed.  (See AMA rules for all the "FPV" and "UAV" caviats).

In about 1 week mine will be completely built out as discribed above (Exept the video and data links willl be in the Amateur Radio spectrum).

Its not lawful to retransmit the 121.5 signal between radio services, so you will have to convert it to telemetry data. Building an autopilot also seems a little over the top for a device that you have to maintain a visual on, but at least it can find its way home if your command system fails!

Major Lord

Im not doubting you but can you cite this?

  If it is the case its really not a big deal.  I can either have the COR on the 121.5 receiver trigger a relay to send a telemetry message.  or Encode the audio via IP and send it back to the ground station over a IP Data link. (3.2 ghz Ham band)

Sure, for the prohibition of this action in the ham band, you will find it in Section 97.113 (4) (e) Part 97, Chapter 1, Title 47 Code of Federal Regulations. Other Federal Laws have controlling authority over this area as well.  CAP's good friend, the Inventor of the L-Per from L-Tronics requested an amendment to part 97 back in the 90's to allow hams to do precisely what it is you have in mind. As far as I know, the FCC never gave him the time of day. I know that people have added 121.5 receivers to LMR repeaters to alert listeners to the ELT on the "tail" of a transmissions from repeaters, but I don't know of any CAP repeaters that do that anymore. It just makes too much sense for the Government to allow it!

Just hearing the tone would not do you too much good anyway; For good RDF work, I think you would be better off with a wide dynamic range RSSI  using one of three methods.
a) An omnidirectional antenna flying in circles and developing circular-overlap mapping ( where circles are drawn on a map as a function of the altitude and instantaneous amplitude of a signal, and overlapping areas are the presumptive origination source) or

b)A gain antenna with as highly a directional lobe as you can fit on your aircraft ( best choice in my opinion, since you can also use the "null as well as the optimal maximum RSSI)

c) A switched antenna RDF system would provide high bearing resolution, but at the cost of antenna gain and reduced sensitivity.

All of these methods could be downlinked via conventional telemetry modes in the Amateur Radio Service, or other permissible service ( 900 or 2400 MHZ , license-free digital spread spectrum radios, for instance)

If you  are VOCODING the audio and sending it as IP I don't think that this would be a violation of Part 97, since you are not "rebroadcasting" a signal per se. Good luck with your project!

Major Lord

[BTCS1*]

That sounds awesome, but now we need details man, details! Helo or fixed wing? On board navigation via an Intel product? DF' ELT's? Inquiring minds want to know!

Major Lord

For me, fixed wing. We were going to try a quadracopter, but then we realized that it couldn't carry the necessary payload.

[Major Lord]

Excellent, especially for a semi autonomous unit. I would love to do a lightweight electric helicopter to just launch straight up ( lots of forest in Northern California) for a DF system only, but I am sure we all look forward to seeing your design!

Major Lord

[BTCS1*]

I'll be sure to post photos, etc. once it is done! And to counter that problem, we're going to use an airframe based off of the Army's RQ-11 Raven drone, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AeroVironment_RQ-11_Raven) which is hand launched and requires a small takeoff area.

[NIN]

The mid-air between a C-130 and a Predator over Afghanistan a month or two ago won't help either.

Yeah, I hate it when a Herk runs into my RQ-7 (ie. NOT a Predator) from behind.

[Major Lord]

Just try keeping your C-130's out of Class G airspace around active SAR missions.........Safety first!

Major Lord

[edubb811]

My squadron looked into the possibility of getting a UAV team together a while ago for ES use. We found it to be way too expensive. If you can pull it off and stay on budget, more power to ya

[NIN]

My squadron looked into the possibility of getting a UAV team together a while ago for ES use. We found it to be way too expensive. If you can pull it off and stay on budget, more power to ya

I hear you can get a real nice slightly used one from the Iranians.

[Major Lord]

My squadron looked into the possibility of getting a UAV team together a while ago for ES use. We found it to be way too expensive. If you can pull it off and stay on budget, more power to ya

I hear you can get a real nice slightly used one from the Iranians.

The Israeli's may make it slightly radioactive, so be careful if you buy it on E-Bay.

Major Lord

[NIN]

The Israeli's may make it slightly radioactive, so be careful if you buy it on E-Bay.

I'll change the batteries in my Geiger counter now...

[♠SARKID♠]

We've got some spares lying around from the RM days if you need them...