Boonie Caps

[shlebz]

i was at an activity yesterday, and one squadron showed up wearing boonie caps. When i asked the cadets they said they have been wearing them for quite some time to activities and noone has every said anythign to them before I. Then i asked one of the officers there with my sqd. and he said that he remembered reading something that stated boonie caps were now allowed with the BDU's. Now last time i read through the CAPM39-1 Boonie caps were not allowed...
So does anyone know anything about that rule changing recently???

[HGjunkie]

Boonie caps still aren't authorized except with the BBDU.

[Eclipse]

When i asked the cadets they said they have been wearing them for quite some time to activities and noone has every said anythign to them before I.

((*sigh*))

[Hawk200]

An example of "regulation" by "I feel like it", "somebody told me....", or "we've always done this."

Too many people are too lazy to read the important things, and rather than look it up, they just blindly accept somedody's word. Two stripe cadet airmen with six or seven unit citations are another example of this. It's understandable, those two stripe cadets usually figure that whoever told them knows, but it indicates problems in the chain.

[Extremepredjudice]

Lol...

Imho, the CAP manuals should be integrated into the leadership tests...
Or at least have a test about the manuals on each milestone

[lordmonar]

Too many people are too lazy to read the important things,

That would assume that the uniforms are "the important things".


having said that.  When you were C/AB.....did you go out and real all the regulations?  Or did you use the cheat sheet from your cadet binder?  Of did you do what your cadet leadership taught you in your uniform class?

I know on Active duty most Airman don't/have never read the full 36-2903 AFI.  They don't have to...as the important parts are in their promotion study manual.

So.....becareful about judging people because they have bad leaders.

[RADIOMAN015]

Boonie caps still aren't authorized except with the BBDU.

here's one specifically for ground team usage:
http://www.abcsafetyglasses.com/erb-boonie-hats-orange.html

Personally, aren't these hats utilized to  provide some shade to personnel from the sun and also in rainy weather keep the rain off ones head/neck   So it could be a safety factor
RM

[a2capt]

here's one specifically for ground team usage:
http://www.abcsafetyglasses.com/erb-boonie-hats-orange.html

There, fixed that for you.

[Eclipse]

Personally, aren't these hats utilized to  provide some shade to personnel from the sun and also in rainy weather keep the rain off ones head/neck. So it could be a safety factor.

Yes.  The "safety argument.  Irrelevant.

The real issue here is not the hats, specifically, but the "different indifference". 

How do you know, in 99% of the cases, that someone is out of reg?  They look different then everyone else.
That applies for the mirror as well.

[JC004]

Boonie caps still aren't authorized except with the BBDU.

here's one specifically for ground team usage:
http://www.abcsafetyglasses.com/erb-boonie-hats-orange.html

Personally, aren't these hats utilized to  provide some shade to personnel from the sun and also in rainy weather keep the rain off ones head/neck   So it could be a safety factor
RM

Right.  I'd like the people who make a huge deal about this to show me how often they do it while performing equivalent activities outside of CAP uniform.

[Hawk200]

Too many people are too lazy to read the important things,

That would assume that the uniforms are "the important things".

Many people do the things the way I mentioned above, and justify it by pigeon-holing it as a nitpick about uniforms. There are far more things in publications than just uniforms.

having said that.  When you were C/AB.....did you go out and real all the regulations?

Never been a cadet, therefore have no frame of reference, so won't address that. That's why I don't, and we shouldn't, hold them as accountable as those who have been in a while. It's better for their chain to inform them of the correct way to do it. And often, they won't listen to anyone other than the people who "told" them in the first place.

Or did you use the cheat sheet from your cadet binder?

Show me a "cheat sheet" from any binder that authorizes a boonie hat, or an authorized National publication, guideline, or even a napkin with the National CC's signature on it authorizing the practice, and I will concede the point.

Of did you do what your cadet leadership taught you in your uniform class?

An example of poor leadership, and part of the problem. "I was told" is the really the wrong way to answer many things. They shouldn't have just "been told" in the first place. Those instructing have a duty to be imparting the right knowledge, not their opinion or passing on hearsay. Cadet leadership should be more familiar with things.

I know on Active duty most Airman don't/have never read the full 36-2903 AFI.

I did, and did so even when it was the original 35-10. Showed people on a regular basis what was said in the pub. Read regs dealing with my own career field as well. Uniforms aren't the only things mentioned in publications.

They don't have to...as the important parts are in their promotion study manual.

Are all airmen issued the promotion manual nowadays? When did that start? I remember not even being able to get one until I made Senior Airman. If you were going BTZ, you were permitted one, but that was the only exception when I was in.

Second, the promotion manual does not set forth policy, it simply provides references from and to the appropriate publications. In the same manner that a "cheat sheet" is not regulatory in nature, either. "I read that in the PFE" wouldn't fly as an answer to any practice you were attempting to justify when I was in.

So.....becareful about judging people because they have bad leaders.

I didn't actually, as I stated:

It's understandable, those two stripe cadets usually figure that whoever told them knows, but it indicates problems in the chain.

Notice the bold. I noted that it was understandable that a two striper might figure that his/her chain of command knows what they are talking about. Which is why I don't give them the grief about it. The chain of command is at fault, and that is where I address the issue.

[arajca]

Personally, aren't these hats utilized to  provide some shade to personnel from the sun and also in rainy weather keep the rain off ones head/neck   So it could be a safety factor
RM

The NEC tried that. Didn't fly with the AF.

[RADIOMAN015]

Personally, aren't these hats utilized to  provide some shade to personnel from the sun and also in rainy weather keep the rain off ones head/neck   So it could be a safety factor
RM

The NEC tried that. Didn't fly with the AF.

Well it would be a stretch in the specific example given by the cadet as far as safety, etc goes.  BUT I'd be willing to bet that on a real ground mission, whether one needed a  "non regulation" boonie hat or better insulated "non regulation" boots, or a better rain repellent jacket, or a warmer jacket, etc, etc,  it's GOING TO WORN for safety and comfort reasons, it's CAP "fantasy land" to believe otherwise. 

Also perhaps this adds to the argument that IF we have our "own" field utility uniforms for all it gives us much more flexibility on hats, gloves, outwear (with simple velcro attachment areas), etc that allows the same outer wear items to be easily utilized as civilian wear also.  It becomes more cost effective for the membership.
RM     

[HGjunkie]

If I saw a cadet at a bivouac/encampment wearing a boonie, I would give them a bottle of sunscreen and tell them to replace the hat with something within regulation. I managed to get around FLWG Sumer Encampment with a Black ball cap for 8 days outside in the blistering sun. I didn't even consider a Boonie.

[shlebz]

ok, i'm not judging people,claiming anyone has bad leadership,trying to wear one myself, or anything like that. I was just merely asking if what the senior member said was true, or if anyone had heard of the boonie caps being allowed.

[DC]

When you were C/AB.....did you go out and real all the regulations? 

Yes. (Okay, not all, just anything remotely connected to Cadet Programs).

I joined at 12 years old, and before I even had my membership card I had downloaded and read 39-1 cover to cover. By the time I was a C/SSgt I was the unit go-to guy on regs. It is doable if you care.

[Майор Хаткевич]

When you were C/AB.....did you go out and real all the regulations? 

Yes. (Okay, not all, just anything remotely connected to Cadet Programs).

I joined at 12 years old, and before I even had my membership card I had downloaded and read 39-1 cover to cover. By the time I was a C/SSgt I was the unit go-to guy on regs. It is doable if you care.

It was also doable if your cadet program was being run by C/Dictators without any SM oversight. Nothing like "this doesn't seem right" to spur a C/A1C to start reading regs and changing things in a rudderless unit.

[lordmonar]

Hawk,

My point is not whether or not boonies is authorised.

My point is that you painted the entire squadron of boonie hat wearing ijits as too lazy to read regultaitons.

My point is that out there somewhere is a wing commander who knows that Squadron X is telling their people they can wear boonie hats.....and is not doing anything about it.

My point is that there is an entire wing out there wearing ranger bling and there is a regional commander out there not doing anything about it.

It is not that the individuals are lazy.....the are not.  They are told by their leadership that it's okay......and they don't know/care about why its wrong so they do it.  It is not about individuals not knowing the regulations.  Cadet X and SM joe blow are just doing what their commander and older squadron members is telling them is wright.  39-1 does not help much...because of the ICLs and un published NB changes that go with it and the poor communications we have with the NB.

I am not going to get bent out of shape over boonies....I'm really not.   Report it up the chain of command and press on. 

[Eclipse]

My point is that you painted the entire squadron of boonie hat wearing ijits as too lazy to read regultaitons.

That's how first impressions work.

I wouldn't get "bent" about them, I'd just tell them to find correct hats.

The issue of boonies, berets, and...get behind me Satan...kevlar helmets, is enough of a problem that we remind people in advance when they are verboten.

[Pump Scout]

Is someone out there seriously wearing Kevlar out there? 

Last time I wore a boonie hat with a uniform, it actually was authorized. Fort Irwin, 1996, OPFOR augmenting unit. Made more sense in the field than the beret, and this pre-dates the black beret being general issue for the Army. All the OPFOR units were authorized pretty much whatever hats we felt appropriate, Kevlar being during missions, boonie being after being "killed", and beret around post. Not that we were there much...