How long for rank

[flyboy53]

Also, no where in the initial entry does it say what is going on up the chain of command.

Just because the regs allow for it, doesn't mean that it won't face extra scrutiny up the chain of command or delays as it goes through the boarding process.

Not that I want to slight the guy or insult him in any way, but those special credentials don't mean expedited handling of his Form 2.

[ßτε]

It's important to remember that the regs state that the advanced grade promotion can only be used once and 99.9% of the time it is to be used on the initial promotion from SMWOG.  Every promotion after that the member was meet all requirements, including backfilling requirements to meet the initial grade.

The regulation says no such thing.

[CAP_truth]

Lets get the regulation correct.
CAPR 35-5 dated 16 March 2010:  Section E

5-3. Initial Appointment. Upon completion of Level I, unit commanders may recommend health service personnel, legal officers, professional educators serving as aerospace education officers and financial professionals serving as finance officers for an appropriate grade commensurate with their CAP position (see figure 7) and professional qualifications as outlined below. Members applying and qualifying for the CAP chaplaincy will be appointed to the appropriate grade upon acceptance by National Headquarters. NOTE: Members in these categories who are members of the Armed Forces are also eligible for consideration to higher grades equivalent to their Armed Forces grade under the provision of paragraph 3-4 of this regulation. However, in no case will the grade exceed lieutenant colonel

d. Aerospace Education Officers. Upon successful completion of Level I, the unit commander may initiate a CAPF 2 on qualified aerospace education officers, recommending appointment to an appropriate grade, as outlined below:

(2) Captain. A professional educator who has served as a teacher, counselor, school administrator, college or university professor (full, associate, or assistant) or other faculty member for a minimum of 5 years. The professional education service requirement is reduced from 5 years to 3 years for members with an earned master's degree.
(3) Major. A professional educator with an earned doctorate degree who has served as a teacher, counselor, school administrator, college or university professor (full, associate, or assistant) or other faculty member, for a minimum of 5 years and has served 1 year time-in-grade as a captain may be appointed to the grade of major.

[lordmonar]

Yes....we get it.

No promotion is automatic.

Done and Done.

What is getting up my craw is that a lot of people started attacking the OP on why he felt he deserved advanced promotion, what had he done for CAP, what he intends to do for CAP, etc.

The OP wanted to know if 10 weeks was a long time for promotion and what he should do about it.

It is okay for us to discuss the pros and cons of advanced promotion, the additional requirments some wings put out for them, etc.......but no one......NO ONE......should be getting on to this guy for asking for one.

Geeze......

To restate my orignial reply.  10 weeks is a long time.  Follow up and see what the issue it.  It may simply be waiting for a board to convien, it may be stuck in limbo because some people don't like advanced promotions, it may jammed up waiting for more documentation (say someone wants to see your transcripts or diploma (do they give diplomas for Phd's).

Either way.....Ignore the haters.......if you meet the requirments and your commander signed the 2A.....that's all that is needed.....thanks for giving your time and expertise to CAP.

[fyrfitrmedic]

 There's a big difference between education and pontificating, a difference that is woefully lost on some of CapTalk's more prolific posters.

[AirDX]

A wet Form 5 and being posted as AEO doesn't mean he's actually done anything, nor does it warrant Capt.  That's 1st Lt. at best.
The sole claim to railroad tracks is the advanced degrees, which are meaningless unless they are put to use for his squadron.

Apparently his commander thinks he is deserving of the rank.  All other opinions are hot air.  And it's getting toasty in here.

[JeffDG]

It's important to remember that the regs state that the advanced grade promotion can only be used once and 99.9% of the time it is to be used on the initial promotion from SMWOG.  Every promotion after that the member was meet all requirements, including backfilling requirements to meet the initial grade.

Where exactly do the regs state that?

If I come in as a private pilot, I can receive a promotion to 2d Lt.  If 2 months later, I finish my Instrument Rating, I'm eligible for another "mission skill" promotion to 1st Lt.  If I rapidly get my Commercial and CFIs after that, I can go back again and get another bump to Capt.

In fact the specific instance stated here permits two promotions:  1 to Capt, then a year later to Maj.

[DogCollar]

It's important to remember that the regs state that the advanced grade promotion can only be used once and 99.9% of the time it is to be used on the initial promotion from SMWOG.  Every promotion after that the member was meet all requirements, including backfilling requirements to meet the initial grade.

Where exactly do the regs state that?

If I come in as a private pilot, I can receive a promotion to 2d Lt.  If 2 months later, I finish my Instrument Rating, I'm eligible for another "mission skill" promotion to 1st Lt.  If I rapidly get my Commercial and CFIs after that, I can go back again and get another bump to Capt.

In fact the specific instance stated here permits two promotions:  1 to Capt, then a year later to Maj.

Hmmmmmm...you're correct and I am wrong.  It appears that only Chaplains are required to adhere to the professional development standards after initial appointment.  All other professional appointments are "exempt."

As to the pilot track you outline, that's completely different.  It's not a part of the professional appointment section of the regs, but is a part of the mission related skills appointment. 

[JeffDG]

It's important to remember that the regs state that the advanced grade promotion can only be used once and 99.9% of the time it is to be used on the initial promotion from SMWOG.  Every promotion after that the member was meet all requirements, including backfilling requirements to meet the initial grade.

Where exactly do the regs state that?

If I come in as a private pilot, I can receive a promotion to 2d Lt.  If 2 months later, I finish my Instrument Rating, I'm eligible for another "mission skill" promotion to 1st Lt.  If I rapidly get my Commercial and CFIs after that, I can go back again and get another bump to Capt.

In fact the specific instance stated here permits two promotions:  1 to Capt, then a year later to Maj.

Hmmmmmm...you're correct and I am wrong.  It appears that only Chaplains are required to adhere to the professional development standards after initial appointment.  All other professional appointments are "exempt."

As to the pilot track you outline, that's completely different.  It's not a part of the professional appointment section of the regs, but is a part of the mission related skills appointment.

OK

For a professional one, let's say a lawyer joins with 8 years of service as an attorney.  He gets a bump to Capt right away (subject to the usual caveats).  Then two years later, he becomes eligible for Maj based on reaching 10 years of service.  Note, this promotion is not dependent on him meeting PD requirements, but is based on his professional (non-CAP) experience.

If that same lawyer wants to make Lt. Col., however, he'll have to work his way through the same PD requirements as everyone else (Level IV).  That said, he does not need to meet the TIG requirements for 2d Lt-Capt, but does need to meet the TIG requirement as a Major for promotion to Lt Col.

5-4a:  After initial appointment, professional personnel may be eligible for future promotions by satisfying the requirements outlined in paragraph 2-1

[drmustang66]

I wish to thank everyone for taking the time to respond to my question. As a rather new CAP member I learned a valuable lesson from this discussion board-never join a discussion board of this type.

I did not expect this level of interest in my original question and I assure everyone that some of the comments will not deter me from my goals.

My goals are simple. I joined CAP to work hard for the organization and the cadets. That was the main reason for receiving certification for O-Flights and Aerospace Education. The commander of the squadron recommended me for the rank of caption based on my one year performance, CAP regulations and sent the necessary paperwork to group. All I wanted to know was "how long."

If some of the posters in this discussion board are in positions of authority and apply their concepts to my application for caption my question may go from "how long" to "how many decades will it take."

One last thought. My degree in Psychology was not given to me but earned. The undergrad and masters work was paid by the GI bill and I did serve in a combat zone.  A degree of this type  takes 7 or more years of hard study. I did not expect the rank of captain to be given to me but also earned.

Best regards to all.

[Eclipse]

It's important to remember that the regs state that the advanced grade promotion can only be used once and 99.9% of the time it is to be used on the initial promotion from SMWOG.  Every promotion after that the member was meet all requirements, including backfilling requirements to meet the initial grade.

Where exactly do the regs state that?

If I come in as a private pilot, I can receive a promotion to 2d Lt.  If 2 months later, I finish my Instrument Rating, I'm eligible for another "mission skill" promotion to 1st Lt.  If I rapidly get my Commercial and CFIs after that, I can go back again and get another bump to Capt.

In fact the specific instance stated here permits two promotions:  1 to Capt, then a year later to Maj.

Hmmmmmm...you're correct and I am wrong.  It appears that only Chaplains are required to adhere to the professional development standards after initial appointment.  All other professional appointments are "exempt."

As to the pilot track you outline, that's completely different.  It's not a part of the professional appointment section of the regs, but is a part of the mission related skills appointment.

OK

For a professional one, let's say a lawyer joins with 8 years of service as an attorney.  He gets a bump to Capt right away (subject to the usual caveats).  Then two years later, he becomes eligible for Maj based on reaching 10 years of service.  Note, this promotion is not dependent on him meeting PD requirements, but is based on his professional (non-CAP) experience.

If that same lawyer wants to make Lt. Col., however, he'll have to work his way through the same PD requirements as everyone else (Level IV).  That said, he does not need to meet the TIG requirements for 2d Lt-Capt, but does need to meet the TIG requirement as a Major for promotion to Lt Col.

5-4a:  After initial appointment, professional personnel may be eligible for future promotions by satisfying the requirements outlined in paragraph 2-1

Lawyers probably just need to be left off these conversations since they are "special" in every way - their advanced promotions go direct to NHQ and never stop on the way up.

Edit: No longer the case if it ever was. Can't substantiate this back two revs of 35-5, though I processed one that way.

[Eclipse]

If some of the posters in this discussion board are in positions of authority and apply their concepts to my application for caption my question may go from "how long" to "how many decades will it take."

It does not takes "decades", it simply takes a record of contributions to the program.

One last thought. My degree in Psychology was not given to me but earned. The undergrad and masters work was paid by the GI bill and I did serve in a combat zone.  A degree of this type  takes 7 or more years of hard study. I did not expect the rank of captain to be given to me but also earned.

No one said it was, and if you were in the military you may well qualify for advanced CAP grade based on whatever your highest military grade was.

But, as these things usually go, more detail sheds more light.

How does a degree in psychology relate to being an AEO?

[JeffDG]

How does a degree in psychology relate to being an AEO?

Did you miss the little bit about him being a professor for 10 years?

[jeders]

How does a degree in psychology relate to being an AEO?

Did you miss the little bit about him being a professor for 10 years?

On a side note and completely unrelated to drmustang, if a professor of underwater basket weaving comes in and tries to teach an AE class, odds are he'll fall flat on his face. An A&P would be a better choice for an AEO based on technical knowledge and would have far less education. So, how does someone with a degree in, and I'm assuming professor of, psychology work effectively as an AEO? Not saying it's impossible, just saying that the deck is severely stacked against them.

[AirDX]

How does a degree in psychology relate to being an AEO?

Eclipse do you know anything about education and cognitive studies?  I didn't think so, from that comment.

[AirDX]

So, how does someone with a degree in, and I'm assuming professor of, psychology work effectively as an AEO? Not saying it's impossible, just saying that the deck is severely stacked against them.

The guys a CAP pilot, as well as a CFI and earned a PhD in Psychology.  I'd say he verges on the ideal AEO.

[jeders]

So, how does someone with a degree in, and I'm assuming professor of, psychology work effectively as an AEO? Not saying it's impossible, just saying that the deck is severely stacked against them.

The guys a CAP pilot, as well as a CFI and earned a PhD in Psychology.  I'd say he verges on the ideal AEO.

As I said before you chopped off the first part of my post, not related at all to drmustang. It was a general question of how can person x with a degree in psychology be expected to be an effective AEO based solely on his PhD.

[Eclipse]

How does a degree in psychology relate to being an AEO?

Did you miss the little bit about him being a professor for 10 years?

Nope.  See A2's comment.

How does a degree in psychology relate to being an AEO?

Eclipse do you know anything about education and cognitive studies?  I didn't think so, from that comment.

You're gonna pull a muscle reaching that hard.

It's funny, everyone here keeps giving me grief for asking the question, yet the question has yet to be answered by the one person who can answer it.
We have his resume, but not a single line that answers the question.

He doesn't owe me an answer, he's at least minimally eligible for the promotion.  We all know that.  None of has any say in this, but for those scoring at home, this is a discussion board. 

Those of you who expect to raise the bar and change things need to look at these things and understand there would be a lot more of these types of conversations in that universe.

I have personally delayed or denied advanced promotions to Dr's, former military, pilots, lawyers, and others.  So have the echelons above me in my wing and region.  It's fairly common, actually.  The question?  What has he done for CAP to warrant this? 

In all of my cases, the response from the member was that they respected the organization more for not simply handing them a prize for joining, and that the grade will mean more once they have earned it in a CAP context.

Fly the o-rides, teach the classes, perform a staff function with some sort of objective success, and these things fly through like the wind.

[titanII]

I wish to thank everyone for taking the time to respond to my question. As a rather new CAP member I learned a valuable lesson from this discussion board-never join a discussion board of this type.

I did not expect this level of interest in my original question and I assure everyone that some of the comments will not deter me from my goals.

My goals are simple. I joined CAP to work hard for the organization and the cadets. That was the main reason for receiving certification for O-Flights and Aerospace Education. The commander of the squadron recommended me for the rank of caption based on my one year performance, CAP regulations and sent the necessary paperwork to group. All I wanted to know was "how long."

If some of the posters in this discussion board are in positions of authority and apply their concepts to my application for caption my question may go from "how long" to "how many decades will it take."

One last thought. My degree in Psychology was not given to me but earned. The undergrad and masters work was paid by the GI bill and I did serve in a combat zone.  A degree of this type  takes 7 or more years of hard study. I did not expect the rank of captain to be given to me but also earned.

Best regards to all.

:clap: Well handled, Sir.

[flyboy53]

I wish to thank everyone for taking the time to respond to my question. As a rather new CAP member I learned a valuable lesson from this discussion board-never join a discussion board of this type.

I did not expect this level of interest in my original question and I assure everyone that some of the comments will not deter me from my goals.

My goals are simple. I joined CAP to work hard for the organization and the cadets. That was the main reason for receiving certification for O-Flights and Aerospace Education. The commander of the squadron recommended me for the rank of caption based on my one year performance, CAP regulations and sent the necessary paperwork to group. All I wanted to know was “how long.”

If some of the posters in this discussion board are in positions of authority and apply their concepts to my application for caption my question may go from “how long” to “how many decades will it take.”

One last thought. My degree in Psychology was not given to me but earned. The undergrad and masters work was paid by the GI bill and I did serve in a combat zone.  A degree of this type  takes 7 or more years of hard study. I did not expect the rank of captain to be given to me but also earned.

Best regards to all.

:clap: Well handled, Sir.

And if I might add something. The real lesson here is the exposed flaw in the system that is best corrected by having the NHQ OPR, in this case AE, take the responsibility determining special promotions. There is always a disconnect between the original intent of such a promotion and how it is perceived or demonstrated by those in the field.

My current wing implemented a non-regulation requirement that special promotions be accompanied by a cover letter with goals and a resume. Talk about something that undermines the intent of the regulation.

Regardless of all the ribbons and awards,  the most important thing for everyone to remember is that a promotion or special appointment to a higher rank is about the only concrete way that you recognize a person's achievemnt/service/special qualifications is by advancing them in the grade commenserate with their qualifications/training and experience. Without that, I'll bet even money that all those membership gains that everyone was bragging about a few months ago, will certainly evaporate into thin air.