How long for rank

[JC004]

Alright, alright.  Everybody knock it off.

[MSG Mac]

Alright, alright.  Everybody knock it off.

DITTO

[Майор Хаткевич]

Folks, there are two camps (well, more, but lets focus on two).

First One: You match the reg, you get it.
Second One: Do something, match it, get it.
The third believes that we shouldn't have ANY advanced promotions.

The first one often leads to the "fly clubs". A lot of CFIs. A lot of Captains. Not a lot of anything else.

The second one typically gets the scorn of the first, because they have the gall to actually apply the "May" instead of making it a "will".

From the OP, it seemed that transport pilot was an after thought after "PhD prof for 20 years". Personally, being a college student, I don't put much credence in PhD Professors. Not all are bad, but most seem to think being a professor is all that is needed to teach. I don't even know WHY that's something that gives advanced grade in CAP. CFI, with a From 5 in hand and flying for CAP I can understand. An "educator"? not so much.

And honestly, throwing up a list of basic CAP online testing doesn't help either. I don't think this is a fight for Eclipse, because it won't affect anything, but I also tend to agree with his viewpoint on this.  arajca's question was on point. Citing the reg of what CAN be done wasn't the answer.

[brenaud]

Have your CC or Personnel officer ping Group and find out if there is a hold up.

...

In the mean time....you have enought TIG for 2d Lt...so get your CC to do the 2a for that and have him follow up on the Capt through channels.

Ditto, although I'd suggest using the online promotion module as a duty performance for 2d Lt.
Remember that the approval authority for professional appointment promotions is Wing/CC, so if you have groups there are two levels it must go through.  But check with your chain of command.  If one echelon has questions/wants more documentation then hopefully that will get that information communicated back to the squadron so you can reply.  If they want the info and don't realize you haven't been asked, they'll never get it & the F2 will just collect dust.

[Camas]

Well, let's see now, you've been a SM for a year and now you're applying for captain based on being an AE officer with the educational requirement to support that or as a CFI. I think we can agree that you're eligible for a promotion to captain and not entitled to it. OK - we've got that out of the way.

Now, you've hung on as a SM for a year. You've elected to put in for captain; you've done twice the time as a SM as a SM seeking a promotion to 2d Lt under the duty promotion method. Moreover, your commander has forwarded your application on up the chain of command. He/she is obviously pleased with your performance during the past year and considers your contributions to the success of your unit as significant or he/she would not have recommended you. So, based on that, it sounds like you've earned the promotion. Let's hope the powers-to-be concur with your commander's recommendation. Sounds like you've more than earned it.

For whatever it's worth, I'm the chairperson of my wing's awards and promotion board.

[flyboy53]

Although I commend you for your academic and flying achievements, remember that promotions of this nature are often delayed as they go through the chain of command and may be boarded to determine merit.

That may take a while and can also be denied for cause or merit so brace yourself.

At that grade, you are also going to be compared to other officers of the same rank in your wing.

I'm an AEO. My academic background (I am post masters) had no bearing on any promotion I ever achieved and I'm as far as I'll ever get without being elected to something.  I guess I actually prefer it that way.

I also had a NSC classmate (lieutenant colonel type) a few years back who is a professor of aeronautics, accomplished pilot, numerous other professional achievements, but also a veteran CAP officer and vice wing commander. As I remember, he preferred it that way, too.

[ironputts]

I usually dont weigh in on issues like this. Rank and uniforms seem to be a favorite topic for most CAPTALKERS. I must admit I enjoy seeing everyones perspective and usually agree on one side or the other. This thread has the usual opinions with a little spice thrown in. Hopefully drmustang66 will understand  the years of experience being shown here. I have 20 years of CAP and was promoted just last year to Lt Col. My background when I joined CAP was a backelors degree, 4 years active duty enlisted and just began Warrant Officer School. I was a drill instructor in the Army, Jump School, Army Ranger, and other courses suitable for a ground pounder. After joining CAP I knew I would like to try flying and flew Army Reserve medevac for many years.

I joined CAP for only one reason and that was to help cadets. I saw what the program did and knew that was what I was trained to do. I learned quickly I had to adapt my strict military experience to a disciplined mentoring approach which I hope brought a good experience to the young people over the years. So I learned anything over my many years with CAP is to adapt and take breaks once in awhile.

So to get to this thread I started earnestly when I joined CAP to be promoted as there was no professional advancement in CAP in 1990. I stopped at Captain and enjoyed that rank for 10 years. I can tell you many look at your rank and judge what you can do or not. I agree with everyone here though the slow and methodical advancement is preferred. You will find many will appreciate your background and others will not care. They want to see your CAP brackground and experience. through my 20 years I have met many types of volunteers and believe the ones who want to stay want to give rather than receive. Okay not all I agree! Be patient and all we come in time!

[BillB]

I've seen people with PhD's made Communications Officers when they joined. But the fact is theregulation says a PhD is eligible for Captain. Where does it say he/she has to be AE OfficerA member with a PhD has value to a Squadron even if they are not in their field in CAP.

[Thrashed]

It's more than just education for promotion. Anyone can get a college degree. We are talking about special appointment promotions based on not just education, but the type of education and experience. Certain people have skills that directly relate to CAP and its missions. Pilots, mechanics, clergy, medical doctors/nurses, legal personnel, educators, and finance people. A certain combination of education and experience in any of these areas qualifies you for a special appointment to a certain grade. These people have earned it; the real way, the hard way. Of course, they should be using that education and experience for CAP and one or more of its missions. No one said Dr mustang should get Captain because he has a PhD. He should get Capt because of his PhD, experience as an educator, and/or as a pilot. He is an active CAP pilot and AEO. He has earned Captain twice in CAP. To move up from Capt, he still has to do all the professional development stuff everyone else has to from level one up. I don't see the big deal. It won't cost CAP anything since 2d Lt pay is the same as Captain pay. 

[Thrashed]

d. Aerospace Education Officers. Upon successful completion of Level I, the unit commander may initiate a CAPF 2 on qualified aerospace education officers, recommending appointment to an appropriate grade, as outlined below:
(1) First Lieutenant. A professional educator who is a graduate of a recognized college or university and is certified by the state department of education or a university professor (full, associate, or assistant) or other faculty member.
(2) Captain. A professional educator who has served as a teacher, counselor, school administrator, college or university professor (full, associate, or assistant) or other faculty member for a minimum of 5 years. The professional education service requirement is reduced from 5 years to 3 years for members with an earned master's degree.
(3) Major. A professional educator with an earned doctorate degree who has served as a teacher, counselor, school administrator, college or university professor (full, associate, or assistant) or other faculty member, for a minimum of 5 years and has served 1 year time-in-grade as a captain may be appointed to the grade of major.
e. Legal Officers. Upon successful completion

[Thrashed]

I've seen people with PhD's made Communications Officers when they joined. But the fact is theregulation says a PhD is eligible for Captain. Where does it say he/she has to be AE OfficerA member with a PhD has value to a Squadron even if they are not in their field in CAP.

No where in 35-5 do you get promoted based on education alone. You must have the right combination of educaiton and position for a professional appointment. To be promoted as an educator you must have the education and experience and be an AEO.

You can be a high school drop out and be a FAA A&P mechanic with inspector and be promoted to Captain. 

[Eclipse]

The "right combination" is meaningless unless you apply it to CAP.

"Earned it?"  Everything he "earned" is on his wall and hopefully his paycheck.  None of it is related to CAP until it is.

[Thrashed]

The "right combination" is meaningless unless you apply it to CAP.

"Earned it?"  Everything he "earned" is on his wall and hopefully his paycheck.  None of it is related to CAP until it is.

It's been said numerous times that he is a CAP pilot and AEO. So it applies to and is related to CAP. What part of that do you not understand?

[Eclipse]

The "right combination" is meaningless unless you apply it to CAP.

"Earned it?"  Everything he "earned" is on his wall and hopefully his paycheck.  None of it is related to CAP until it is.

It's been said numerous times that he is a CAP pilot and AEO. So it applies to and is related to CAP. What part of that do you not understand?

A wet Form 5 and being posted as AEO doesn't mean he's actually done anything, nor does it warrant Capt.  That's 1st Lt. at best.
The sole claim to railroad tracks is the advanced degrees, which are meaningless unless they are put to use for his squadron.

[Thom]

The "right combination" is meaningless unless you apply it to CAP.

"Earned it?"  Everything he "earned" is on his wall and hopefully his paycheck.  None of it is related to CAP until it is.

It's been said numerous times that he is a CAP pilot and AEO. So it applies to and is related to CAP. What part of that do you not understand?

A wet Form 5 and being posted as AEO doesn't mean he's actually done anything, nor does it warrant Capt.  That's 1st Lt. at best.
The sole claim to railroad tracks is the advanced degrees, which are meaningless unless they are put to use for his squadron.

The determination of which is up to his Commander, and higher chain of command, not you, or me.


Thom

[Eclipse]

The determination of which is up to his Commander, and higher chain of command, not you, or me.

Of course. 

[JeffDG]

The determination of which is up to his Commander, and higher chain of command, not you, or me.

Of course.

Yet you consistently show disrespect to his CC by demanding that the OP justify his contribution to you.  The Squadron Commander signed off on it, absent some evidence that the CC is negligent, that's sufficient evidence for me that the individual is appropriately contributing the skills he has earned.

[Eclipse]

Disrespect and demand?  He doesn't have to justify anything to me.  He didn't even need to respond to my question, but once he
did, I think it is fair to discuss what he provided.  Isn't that the point of this?  To help educate and inform people how CAP works and
why things may or may not always be clear or "all on the page" in the regs?

Given the right chain of circumstance, he could be a Colonel tomorrow, or he might never get past SMWOG, that's how this goes.  The baseline
minimums are what are found in the regs, and we have seen increasing pressure and rhetoric to raise the expectations beyond the minimums.

People regularly take issue with pilots who walk in with a CFI and want to be Captains on Day 0, but never contribute anything beyond their
own personal flying.  How is this different?  We only have his responses to go by, which provide nothing about his contributions to CAP, only
a very recent list of baseline activity.

This has nothing to do with the Unit CC, who has never been part of the discussion.  Don't make this something it isn't.

[jeders]

The determination of which is up to his Commander, and higher chain of command, not you, or me.

Of course.

Yet you consistently show disrespect to his CC by demanding that the OP justify his contribution to you.  The Squadron Commander signed off on it, absent some evidence that the CC is negligent, that's sufficient evidence for me that the individual is appropriately contributing the skills he has earned.

Because this is CAPTalk, and these are the things we argue fight debate about.

If I were in this fellows chain of command, I would probably be asking the same questions as Eclipse, and if I got the same answers that were given here, I wouldn't be satisfied. I don't think that Eclipse is really attacking him, just trying to test the validity so that if the same questions come down from his chain of command, he'll have good answers, not a print out of some online tests.

That said, I also recognize that these professional appointments are there to try and get more people into CAP. So if he really is putting his skills to positive use at the unit level, I'd have no problem approving, and hopefully that's how things will turn out. But for now, hopefully we won't have scared away a newer member from what is a wonderful resource.

[DogCollar]

It's important to remember that the regs state that the advanced grade promotion can only be used once and 99.9% of the time it is to be used on the initial promotion from SMWOG.  Every promotion after that the member was meet all requirements, including backfilling requirements to meet the initial grade.

My initial appointment was to Capt. as I came in to be a Chaplain and I have a Master of Divinity.  I could have stayed a Capt. by doing absolutely nothing except what was required as a unit chaplain.  However, in order to promote to Major I had to complete all professonal development requirements for Capt and Major and be doing my job while waiting time in grade.