Air Force "Temporary Reserve" status

[JohnKachenmeister]

Yes, I did misunderstand you, RA.

[JohnKachenmeister]

DNall:

UCMJ Article 2, Paragraph (A)  The following persons are subject to this Code:

( 8 )   Members of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration, The Public Health Service, and other organizations  when assigned to and serving with the armed forces.

[SAR-EMT1]

^
Bump

... Revisited in light of new VSAF program

[lordmonar]

Contractors, yes they can operate UAVs on combat missions, just so they are not the trigger puller,

Your information is incorrect....and that is all I can say.

[RiverAux]

Talk about bringing a thread back from the dead....

[Carl C]

If you want to be a reservist, why don't you just join up?   Me?  I served my time, including combat.  10 years.   I just want to give a little more back and put my pilot certificate to good use by doing SAR work as a civilian.  If the military needs help, they know how to get it...believe me, they do.

[RRLE]

RA and I have both done extensive research on the USCG TRs of WWII. Some factoids you might find of interest.

1. In the beginning the TRs were paid. That was quickly terminated and most TRs served without pay.

2. On duty they were subject to the Articles of War. Off duty they reverted to 'pure civilian' and were not subject to the Articles of War.

3. Almost all served as rates, not officers, and low rates at that.

4. Most served in units that were composed exclusively of other TRs - Coastal Picket Force, Volunteer Port Security Force, Coastal Pickett Force, Coast Guard Police, etc.

5. By law then and still on the books, TRs do not get the same benefits as other Reservists. Th TRs only got the benefits the law specifically grants to them, which from what I can determine is only medical coverage and death benefits while on assigned duty.

6. The TRs of WWII got the National Defense Medal and that was about it in terms of recognition for service. They got no GI Bill etc. Some, depending on length of service, may have gotten federal government hiring preference.

7. The CG Police were a somewhat unique group. They were the security guards employed at defense plants. Before the war they were either company employees or employees of private security companies under contract to the company. DOD wanted them militarized and turned to the only expedient it had - the CG TRs. All the security guards were brought into the CG TRs, CG Police unit. They were then mostly seconded to other DOD units, usually the DOD unit (army, navy etc)  for direct supervision.  The unit was usually the one the plant was doing most of the work for. And the CG Police continued to be paid by their civilian employers.

8. The CG TRs weathermen were a similar group. They were civilian employees of the National Weather Service before the war. They were sent to sea on Navy ships to provide weather services. To protect them in the event of sinking and capture they were made members of the CG TR and seconded to the Navy. They continued to receive their civilian pay.

Bothy 7 and 8 provide a model for how the USAF could get TRs in a hurry (should that balloon ever go up) without a change in the law. The CG would fire up its still on the books TR program. Induct civilians into the the TR and then second the units over to the USAF.

There is no requirement in the law now or during WWII that a member of the CG TR had to be a member of the USCG Aux. For various sub-groups of the TRs, mostly the Coastal Picket Force, the inductee joined the USCG Aux first for training. However, the Volunteer Port Security Force was mostly drawn from non-Auxiliarists.

So a potential inductee into the USCG/USAF seconded TR would not have to be a member of either the USCG or CAP.

During WWII, the Aux membership skyrocketed to something like 80,000 members - mostly do to the inductees into the TR joing it for training. After the war and their discharge from the TR, most of them left the Auxiliary. Auxiliary membership collapsed below 20,000 and remained there for almost 2 decades.

[LittleIronPilot]

If you want to be a reservist, why don't you just join up?   Me?  I served my time, including combat.  10 years.   I just want to give a little more back and put my pilot certificate to good use by doing SAR work as a civilian.  If the military needs help, they know how to get it...believe me, they do.

I can say this...there are many that would, such as myself, who like you, have served (combat even). I would LOVE to serve in uniform again, however what I cannot do is afford to get shipped off overseas for a year and a half....the paycut would cause me to lose everything I have worked for in the decade since I was discharged.

What *I* would like is a state-side only defensive force that was federally funded and armed....no such animal exists of course.

[teesquared]

If you want to be a reservist, why don't you just join up?   Me?  I served my time, including combat.  10 years.   I just want to give a little more back and put my pilot certificate to good use by doing SAR work as a civilian.  If the military needs help, they know how to get it...believe me, they do.

I can say this...there are many that would, such as myself, who like you, have served (combat even). I would LOVE to serve in uniform again, however what I cannot do is afford to get shipped off overseas for a year and a half....the paycut would cause me to lose everything I have worked for in the decade since I was discharged.

Then there are those of us who would serve again in a heartbeat, but are probably too [darn] old, and have been out too long. 

[mikeylikey]

What *I* would like is a state-side only defensive force that was federally funded and armed....no such animal exists of course.

Wow......wasn't that what was once envisioned for the National Guard.  A stateside defense force, ONLY called to Federal Service when Congress declares War, and Only when there are not enough Federal Troops to maintain combat operations.  Or perhaps Only called to service for such a short time until enough Federal "Regular" Army and AF personnel could be inducted.

How times have changed.  It seems joining the National Guard today is like joining the Active Army (more so, when you look at deployments).  We need a strictly "Homeland Defense Contingent" that would never be deployed and is not made up of State Defense Forces, but of true National Guardsman.

[LittleIronPilot]

What *I* would like is a state-side only defensive force that was federally funded and armed....no such animal exists of course.

Wow......wasn't that what was once envisioned for the National Guard.  A stateside defense force, ONLY called to Federal Service when Congress declares War, and Only when there are not enough Federal Troops to maintain combat operations.  Or perhaps Only called to service for such a short time until enough Federal "Regular" Army and AF personnel could be inducted.

How times have changed.  It seems joining the National Guard today is like joining the Active Army (more so, when you look at deployments).  We need a strictly "Homeland Defense Contingent" that would never be deployed and is not made up of State Defense Forces, but of true National Guardsman.

I have no problems with SDF's...except they are NOT a "defense" force since the vast majority are not armed and they have to pay for everything, even their own uniforms. At least many of them have their hearts and patriotism in the right place.

[wildman]

Wingnut, where in these documents is CAP specifically mentioned?

Not Wing Nut but here is your answer. First Document
4.1.7. Early consideration shall be given to the practical use of alternate workforce sourcing solutions such as active duty forces, DoD civilian personnel, coalition forces, host-nation support, civilian contracted labor, technological solutions, or other means that may be available. Innovative management alternatives, such as using retiree volunteers, civilian auxiliary members (Coast Guard Auxiliary, Civil Air Patrol), and reach-back support shall be applied whenever operationally appropriate.


2nd Document DOD Directive numbner 3025.1
5.9. In addition to the responsibilities assigned under paragraph 5.6., above, the
Secretary of the Air Force shall:
5.9.1. Establish appropriate guidance, through the National Guard Bureau, for
the Adjutants General of the 50 States, the District of Columbia, Guam, Puerto Rico,
and the Virgin Islands to ensure compliance by the Air National Guard with this
Directive.
5.9.2. Facilitate planning by the Civil Air Patrol for participation in MSCA.

[wildman]

We're WAY AHEAD OF OURSELVES on this though. Let's figure out how to get our force meeting something like AF standards so we can operate our org worth a crap & gain AF confidence in us to do important missions... THEN when we've prove ourselves AND laid the ground work w/ volunteer professional augmentation or assistance (Chaplains, medical, legal aid, etc), THEN we can come back to a conversation like this. For now though, it's just going to distract from the steps we need to be taking to fix the reality we actually live in. I appreciate the imagination, but lets try to keep it focus on target. Please.
[/quote]


AMEN-We are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out there. Up grade the training-lay some ground work,
some think the USAF AUX is coming our tail feathers because of Posse Comatit us------ p l e a s e-
We have a hard time getting people to respond to ELT missions

wild

[Gunner C]

Wingnut, where in these documents is CAP specifically mentioned?

Not Wing Nut but here is your answer. First Document
4.1.7. Early consideration shall be given to the practical use of alternate workforce sourcing solutions such as active duty forces, DoD civilian personnel, coalition forces, host-nation support, civilian contracted labor, technological solutions, or other means that may be available. Innovative management alternatives, such as using retiree volunteers, civilian auxiliary members (Coast Guard Auxiliary, Civil Air Patrol), and reach-back support shall be applied whenever operationally appropriate.


2nd Document DOD Directive numbner 3025.1
5.9. In addition to the responsibilities assigned under paragraph 5.6., above, the
Secretary of the Air Force shall:
5.9.1. Establish appropriate guidance, through the National Guard Bureau, for
the Adjutants General of the 50 States, the District of Columbia, Guam, Puerto Rico,
and the Virgin Islands to ensure compliance by the Air National Guard with this
Directive.
5.9.2. Facilitate planning by the Civil Air Patrol for participation in MSCA.

MSCA?  Definition please.

[RiverAux]

military support to civilian authorities

[wingnut]

What are we talking about here, the Military already has stated what we are, how they will use CAP in a national emergency. Yes we need to get our house in ORDER, thats what many of us are saying. But the management will not or cannot hear us. Who is in charge? We seem to be like children walking around in the dark, some playing soldier, some just playing, most just playing when they want to. Crap! a Lt. Col. Group commander has as much authority as a Scout master (am I going to catch it on that one), I think we need to listen to some of the US Air Forces complaints, one very big one is " The HQ CAP can't explain to their own members who or what they are, so AUX on AUX OFF. Corporate, not Corporate.

[mikeylikey]

^ CAP-USAF HQ is also at fault.  Don't they share the building with CAP NHQ??