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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Tall Tales  |  Topic: PAWG the Black eye of CAP
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Author Topic: PAWG the Black eye of CAP  (Read 12019 times)
octavian
Recruit

Posts: 23

« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2011, 03:43:25 PM »

Did you ever think that, as a cadet, not everything is going to be revealed to you?  What last minute SAREX are you referring to?  The last one we had here in PAWG Group 3(that'd be the group your squadron is in) was planned well in advance. 
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Maverick925
Recruit

Posts: 30

« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2011, 11:51:36 PM »

I'm not mentioning my name, but I'm a former member of PAWG.  I had some major issues with the command in my squadron (again, I'm not mentioning which squadron).  Now, protocol would be if you have a problem within the squadron chain of command, to go to group.  However, the group and squadron commanders hated eachother.  So now, common sense would say to go to wing.  The squadron and wing commanders were best friends, so that was out.  I could have gone to NER, but that would havemarked me for the rest of my days in CAP.  I went inactive for several months, until a friend in another local wing convinced me to go down there.  Within a couple months of going down there, I was fully qualified as a mission scanner - something that could not have happened in PAWG due to the cliquish nature of the units that have pilots/planes.  I have also found myself very drawn to the ES mission.  Again, something that could not have happened in PAWG because more or less in my experience, if you didn't do HMRS, you were nothing. 

Would staying in PAWG have been easier and cheaper?  Yes.  But in my new wing, I get something that I never got in PAWG; a feeling of being wanted and valued.

From someone who has been in CAP for 13 years, take it from me.  I know CAP is a political organization.  PAWG is absolutely nothing but politics, and if you aren't in the commander's clique, you can't get squat.

Signed,

A 13 year veteran of Civil Air Patrol
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fyrfitrmedic
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 555

« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2011, 11:54:32 PM »

 The charming young gentleperson who started this thread decided to send me a message privately disparaging my home unit.

How utterly charming.
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MAJ Tony Rowley CAP
Lansdowne PA USA
"The passion of rescue reveals the highest dynamic of the human soul." -- Kurt Hahn
CAPcadet902
Banned

Posts: 11
Unit: 902

« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2011, 11:57:29 PM »

Did you ever think that, as a cadet, not everything is going to be revealed to you?  What last minute SAREX are you referring to?  The last one we had here in PAWG Group 3(that'd be the group your squadron is in) was planned well in advance.

This may be somewhat true if you call copy and pasting well planned. Also it was poorly executed. Lack of communication to members and not publicly advertising it to PAWG's general population who need the training. It's time to reform. All local wings are way ahead of us. When you go to a wing sarex and the people running the event are more concerned about the coffee and doughnuts than the training of us cadets. There is something seriously wrong.
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Welcome to PAWG may I have another
NCRblues
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,480
Unit: lostiguess

« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2011, 11:58:05 PM »

It seems more and more, that when members (cadets or seniors) get frustrated with the system (or lack of, if you think that way) they come here to vent.

Oh well, sometimes the best thing to do is ignore them  >:D
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In god we trust, all others we run through NCIC
cap235629
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,251
Unit: SWR-AR-083

« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2011, 12:15:09 AM »

When you go to a wing sarex and the people running the event are more concerned about the coffee and doughnuts than the training of us cadets. There is something seriously wrong.

What is wrong is that you expect to get training at a SAREX.  Training is the responsibility of your home unit.  You go to a SAREX to EXERCISE the skills you have obtained.  If you are relying on SAREX's to get trained, YOU are doing it wrong.
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Bill Hobbs, Major, CAP
Arkansas Certified Emergency Manager
Tabhair 'om póg, is Éireannach mé
FW
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,176

« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2011, 12:26:50 AM »

I'm not mentioning my name, but I'm a former member of PAWG.  I had some major issues with the command in my squadron (again, I'm not mentioning which squadron).  Now, protocol would be if you have a problem within the squadron chain of command, to go to group.  However, the group and squadron commanders hated eachother.  So now, common sense would say to go to wing.  The squadron and wing commanders were best friends, so that was out.  I could have gone to NER, but that would havemarked me for the rest of my days in CAP.  I went inactive for several months, until a friend in another local wing convinced me to go down there.  Within a couple months of going down there, I was fully qualified as a mission scanner - something that could not have happened in PAWG due to the cliquish nature of the units that have pilots/planes.  I have also found myself very drawn to the ES mission.  Again, something that could not have happened in PAWG because more or less in my experience, if you didn't do HMRS, you were nothing. 

Would staying in PAWG have been easier and cheaper?  Yes.  But in my new wing, I get something that I never got in PAWG; a feeling of being wanted and valued.

From someone who has been in CAP for 13 years, take it from me.  I know CAP is a political organization.  PAWG is absolutely nothing but politics, and if you aren't in the commander's clique, you can't get squat.

Signed,

A 13 year veteran of Civil Air Patrol

As a 35 year "veteran" of Civil Air Patrol (27 in PAWG), all I can say is "Bunk"  For the few members I know of who transferred to DEWG from PAWG in the last 10 years, most did so because of reasons other than "politics".  However, what you wish to rant about is your privilege.
 

Did you ever think that, as a cadet, not everything is going to be revealed to you?  What last minute SAREX are you referring to?  The last one we had here in PAWG Group 3(that'd be the group your squadron is in) was planned well in advance.

This may be somewhat true if you call copy and pasting well planned. Also it was poorly executed. Lack of communication to members and not publicly advertising it to PAWG's general population who need the training. It's time to reform. All local wings are way ahead of us. When you go to a wing sarex and the people running the event are more concerned about the coffee and doughnuts than the training of us cadets. There is something seriously wrong.

Isn't that what SAREX's are all about???  >:D
 
I find it ironic.  WIWAC, I thought I could do better than the seniors in my squadron also.  So much for the wisdom of a 15 year old cadet... 8)
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 09:19:28 AM by MIKE » Logged
fyrfitrmedic
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 555

« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2011, 01:44:36 AM »

When you go to a wing sarex and the people running the event are more concerned about the coffee and doughnuts than the training of us cadets. There is something seriously wrong.

What is wrong is that you expect to get training at a SAREX.  Training is the responsibility of your home unit.  You go to a SAREX to EXERCISE the skills you have obtained.  If you are relying on SAREX's to get trained, YOU are doing it wrong.


+1

Training at SAREXs should, IMHO, be OJT for those serving in trainee positions or something done to efficiently fill downtime between tasks, it is NOT the raison d'etre.


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MAJ Tony Rowley CAP
Lansdowne PA USA
"The passion of rescue reveals the highest dynamic of the human soul." -- Kurt Hahn
lordmonar
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,639

« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2011, 02:29:16 AM »

This may be somewhat true if you call copy and pasting well planned.
If it ain't broke don't fix it
Quote
Also it was poorly executed.
They usually are...seeing as it is a learning experience for most people involved.
Quote
Lack of communication to members and not publicly advertising it to PAWG's general population who need the training.
Did you commander know about it?  How did you know about it?  The wing/group DO does not have to advertise it to the general membership...he only needs to tell the subordinate commanders
Quote
It's time to reform.
What do you suggest?
Quote
All local wings are way ahead of us.
That is kind of an oxymoron....."local" wings?  Now I have to ask you about your qualifications to make that statement.  How many other wing SAREXs have you attended?  What qualifications do you bring to the table that makes you a credible judge of your or any wing's readiness and effectiveness?
Quote
When you go to a wing sarex and the people running the event are more concerned about the coffee and doughnuts than the training of us cadets. There is something seriously wrong.
The people running the event.....called the IC, OSC, and PSC are not concerned with anyones training.....it is not their job.  Training is the job of you local squadron commander.  The people running event are......running the event. 
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
Al Sayre
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,515
Unit: SER-MS-001

Mississippi Wing
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2011, 08:16:41 AM »

The hardest part of a SAREX is finding a balance between making it realistic and letting everyone exercise their skills. 

Real life missing aircraft missions are generally pretty boring affairs.  If you don't start with an ELT report, your GT's may spend several hours sitting around the hangar or in the van in the middle of nowhere simply because you have no idea where along the 300 mile route that you are searching they may be needed, and the best thing you can do is preposition them somewhere in the middle based on your best guess.  Aircraft may have to sit on the ramp until 1200-1300 because the fog or ceiling hasn't lifted enough to give you legal clearance to fly at 1000'agl for your search patterns.  So consequently, about the only thing that may happen for several hours is that the planning section plays with their maps, while the MSA's take phone tips, and the IC talks to other search agencies and gives interviews to the local newspapers.  Coffee and Donuts become the most important topic simply because there isn't much else you can do.  Once ceilings permit flying, aircraft leave for ~3 hours at a time and then come back and go out again.  Meanwhile planning section marks up their maps and Comm unit does check ins and everyone else answers phones, drinks coffee and waits.  Rinse and repeat.

If the mission starts with an ELT report, it is usually over pretty quickly.  One aircraft and maybe a GT but (more likely local LEO's) will handle it.

So now, what was the problem with your SAREX?
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Lt Col Al Sayre
MS Wing Staff Dude
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
GRW #2787
elipod
Forum Regular

Posts: 105
Unit: NER-PA-292

« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2011, 08:53:06 AM »

Awww c'mon. I can't believe this kid. You know...When I see him at our cadet conference in a few weeks, he just may get a talking to.

We all know CAP doesn't always run smoothly but hey, we do try our best. Right? At least some of us I guess. One point of the CAP Program, is to have fun. And if all we can do is badmouth each other, then thats not going to promote good moral...

Make an effort to be positive, and you may be surprised just how far that gets you!
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"Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else"
CAPSGT
Global Moderator

Posts: 394
Unit: MER-MD-086

« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2011, 09:46:44 AM »

I think this topic overstayed it's welcome pretty much around post 1.  Let's just put it out of it's misery and keep the name-specific (wing-specific) rants off the board.  Anonymous "hypotheticals" based on reality are fine by the membership code of conduct, but unit specific bashing is not.
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MICHAEL A. CROCKETT, Lt Col, CAP
Assistant Communications Officer, Wicomico Composite Squadron
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Tall Tales  |  Topic: PAWG the Black eye of CAP
 


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