Hock Shop

[capmaj]

No more Hock Shop. CAP Corporate wins.

[kd8gua]

I hope they're happy. I hope they feel a great sense of pride in doing their community, state, and nation a great service by getting rid of all these "horrific" people selling CAP items during times when the "official" stores could barely even put a catalog of CAP items together. Tom Flanagan, thank you for your service to CAP. You will greatly be missed.

[Al Sayre]

Thanks for your service Tom.  Sorry this happened.  Make the best of it and enjoy your retirement.

[HGjunkie]

NOOOOOO!   

[a2capt]

Sorry it happened, but it was inevitable. The web site was an atrocious mess, as if GeoCities crashed landed and blew bits all over the place. Adding the other products and expanding the scope was a great idea but when the "store front" looked like 5 year olds put it together, and the presentation verbiage had political overtones on it. It does make you wonder what you are getting into.

The home page made a big deal about a "New Web Site!!!" and the next click revealed the same old crud, just half arsed up some more with the removal of stuff but leaving non-functional buttons right in the middle of it. People generally see that stuff and think it's a zombie site, not working.

Tom was obviously burnt out a long time ago, and if he's been doing this on various scales for 47 years, I'd say it was bound to shut down at any rate real soon anyway.

[Larry Mangum]

Sorry it happened, but it was inevitable. The web site was an atrocious mess, as if GeoCities crashed landed and blew bits all over the place. Adding the other products and expanding the scope was a great idea but when the "store front" looked like 5 year olds put it together, and the presentation verbiage had political overtones on it. It does make you wonder what you are getting into.

The home page made a big deal about a "New Web Site!!!" and the next click revealed the same old crud, just half arsed up some more with the removal of stuff but leaving non-functional buttons right in the middle of it. People generally see that stuff and think it's a zombie site, not working.

Tom was obviously burnt out a long time ago, and if he's been doing this on various scales for 47 years, I'd say it was bound to shut down at any rate real soon anyway.

So you could not just say thanks for your years of service? Instead you felt a need to belittle him and his business. Shame on you!

[Johnny Yuma]

Just got this off Facebook. Score one for Vanguard and whoever at NHQ's getting the kickback. Yes, I mean that...

As you know, I have been prohibited by Civil Air Patrol from selling its distinctive insignia as well as any other licensable items. This action, I'm sure you're well aware, has had a devastating effect on my business. To replace the lost sales, I have two options. First, add a lot of new items that CAP members could use, or secondly, increase my customer base beyond the CAP membership and sell things that "civilians" would use – in effect start a new business. I have done both and found that to become successful again will take a long time and a lot of money. These are two things which I don't have. So, with a heavy heart, I am announcing my retirement, and the closing of "The Hock Shop", after serving the members of Civil Air Patrol with their needs for forty-seven years. I hope that I have fulfilled the oath I took over fifty years when I joined as a cadet to "be of service to my community, state and nation".
Effective immediately, my entire remaining inventory of sellable items is being offered at 25% off the regular price (This includes "bundle" lots!). Almost all items have fewer than a dozen or two remaining, so I would suggest that you hurry and place your order without delay as there will be no more once the current supply is depleted. When an item is sold out, it will be removed from the website. If our supply of an item runs out before we get to your order, you will receive a refund the same day. All orders will be filled in the order received. For items purchased during this sale, all sales are final. No returns for credit or exchange will be accepted. Now is the time to assess your needs both current and for the foreseeable future. You won't find savings like this again!
I'll miss you all. I've enjoyed your friendship and patronage, and wish you the best. Thanks for everything!

Tom Flanagan
The Hock Shop

[MIKE]

Merged.

[Smokey]

I will miss Tom and his service....I always found him to be above board and he provided quick service along with outstanding customer service as far as returns, errors, etc.

The comments by a2capt were uncalled for, but then some folks have no class I'm sorry to say.

A SALUTE to the Hock and Tom.  Thank you for your service and your dedication to the members of CAP.  You will be missed.

Capitalism is dying in America.

[Eclipse]

Um...no...it is actually thriving.

Why do people ignore the fact that this was a for profit business violating CAP's intellectual property rights?  Its not like this was
some random unit member who was selling patches to send cadets to encampment.

He was so successful that a far-too large segment of the membership joined and left thinking his was the official source for CAP
merchandise and uniform items.

People also tend to forget the fact that the majority of what he sold was inferior, knock-off items with detail, color, and quality issues, and by no means was he giving this stuff away - his prices were as much or more than other sources, including the depot, CAPMart, and now VG.

[Майор Хаткевич]

^ Hock lost me as a consumer when it took them 8 weeks to get me nametapes that didn't match any other tapes I've seen. That was in 2003. Let's also not forget that he was not authorized to sell CAP merchandise.

[a2capt]

People also tend to forget the fact that the majority of what he sold was inferior, knock-off items with detail, color, and quality issues, and by no means was he giving this stuff away - his prices were as much or more than other sources, including the depot, CAPMart, and now VG.

Bingo.
Prompt service, sure. But sub-prime stuff in a lot of the cases, too.

[Larry Mangum]

All those things might be true, but let's not forget that he provided a service to members that were often necessary due to CAP's own short comings.  How many of us remember when ordering a simple ribbon or uniform shirt, could take months for order fulfillment when ordering from the book store or CAP Mart?  Had CAP been able to adequately provide the services its members needed, he would not have been in business for 47 years.
So yes, we do owe him thanks and appreciation for his years of service and dedication.

[Eclipse]

I'm looking but can't find it...

Which core value is "The end justifies the means?"

[JohnKachenmeister]

Tom was in business for many years before CAP entered into a deal with Vanguard and began enforcing its copyrights.

You will find the "End justifies the means" value right after the "Ex Post Facto Enforcement" value.

[Eclipse]

A number of people on this board have indicated that he ignored C&D's for years, which, if true, is not quite the same thing.
Prior to VG, the entities selling insignia were a direct part of the corporation and were not mandated by contract to enforce the
property rights, VG is.

[Thrashed]

You might get what you pay for, but at least with Hock you get something when you order it. I'm still waiting for two orders from VG! 

[Pylon]

Hey Eclipse, we get it.  Thanks.


I will miss the Hock on behalf of my cadets and future cadets.  We used to order our "cadet starter packages" from the Hock which could get a new cadet completely outfitted with everything they needed (nameplates, nametapes, cutouts, BDU belt and hat, etc.) for about $48ish.  With Vanguard the same package costs over $80.


Just one example (and not even a Civil Air Patrol-distinctive item, so don't get all huffy Eclipse) of where the Hock excelled with helping control costs especially for cadets:
The current cost of 1 blues belt with buckle from Hock: $2.62.  Same belt from Vanguard: $13.80.  That's about 600% more for the belt from Vanguard.  Free shipping from the Hock, no free shipping on that belt from Vanguard.


I ordered a flight cap from Tom just last week.  In the afternoon.  It literally was in my mailbox the next day.  I couldn't even believe it.  Granted, I'm in the same geographic region but that means that as soon as my order came in, Tom picked and packaged it, and got it to the Post Office before close of business same day.  That's service.


We could go on all night with these comparisons, but obviously every had their own experiences and has their own opinions.  I for one am grateful to Tom for helping keep costs low for our cadets for a number of years, and also saving my rear-end on more than one occasion for a wing conference or other event where something I needed was shipped right out same day, with the correct items, and overnighted.   I have a feeling that if I call up Vanguard and say "Hey I'm in a pinch, I need these items sent out in the next few hours, and overnighted" that I won't get the same cheery "can-do" (and did do) attitude I got from Tom and his staff.

I will miss the Hock.

[Smokey]

Like Pylon said...the Hock was responsive to customer needs and would ship quickly....here is what I posted here on Sept 5 as an example of Vanguard's attitude....

I've had mixed results with Vanguard.  Just recently I needed an Air Force item (not CAP  specific) and I needed it within a week.  I called the California store, they said it could ship by regular UPS and I would have it within the time frame.  (Note: the California store is 90 minutes from my home).  When it didn't arrive I called and was told that "orders are not processed for  3-5 business days unless you want to pay extra for special handling and shipping would be another 5 days "( remember how far away I said I was!!!)  That  is 10 business days for an in stock item to be shipped less than 100 miles!  Of course I could have paid about $8 for special handling and $20 for overnight shipping for a $25 item. Double the cost of the item.

I've never had that kind of attitude at the Hock.   Vanguard just doesn't seem to have the same regard for it's customers.

[RADIOMAN015]

Um...no...it is actually thriving.

Why do people ignore the fact that this was a for profit business violating CAP's intellectual property rights?  Its not like this was
some random unit member who was selling patches to send cadets to encampment.

He was so successful that a far-too large segment of the membership joined and left thinking his was the official source for CAP merchandise and uniform items.

People also tend to forget the fact that the majority of what he sold was inferior, knock-off items with detail, color, and quality issues, and by no means was he giving this stuff away - his prices were as much or more than other sources, including the depot, CAPMart, and now VG.

I wish him the best in his retirement.  He must have been doing something right for being in business for over 45 years serving a relatively small marketing niche of volunteers. :clap:

Of course his company does known what "customer service" is all about, perhaps Vanguard could hire him to teach them a thing or two  :angel:   

So who do you think the next small business will be that the big bad CAP will put out of business
RM