So, I suppose we want to encourage self-deployment by CAP members now...

[RiverAux]

From CAP News Online:

Michigan CAP officers respond to fatal plane crash

1st Lt. Mike Sandstrom
Public Affairs Officer
Kellogg Field Senior Squadron
Michigan Wing

MICHIGAN — Two members of Civil Air Patrol's Kellogg Field Senior Squadron recently responded on their own initiative to a crash site in Pennfield, outside Battle Creek.

The pilot of a Cessna 170 had reported to the Kalamazoo/Battle Creek International Airport tower that he was experiencing problems and was going to land in a field about 8 miles northeast of Battle Creek.

Capt. Ken Glidden got word from a co-worker who heard the emergency calls on his scanner and contacted Lt. Col. Tom Reed, a retired police officer who still regularly volunteers with the Police Department.

Glidden and Reed then headed to the crash site in Pennfield Township to silence the Cessna's electronic locator transmitter.

"I wanted to get the ELT shut off before they called us at 2 a.m. about an ELT northeast of Battle Creek," Reed said.

"We did not have a mission number," he said. "I just called down to 911 Central Dispatch and asked them to see if anyone at the crash site could monitor (the CAP frequency) to see if the ELT was activated. No one at the scene could monitor that frequency, so ES-1 (Calhoun County Emergency Services) asked us to come out."

Photo by Capt. Ken Glidden

Lt. Col. Tom Reed during a break at the site where a Cessna 170 crashed near Battle Creek, Mich.

Glidden and Reed drove to the site while using a portable air-band radio to confirm that the ELT was activated. After checking with a FAA representative on scene, the two CAP members turned it off.

"We ended up assisting the FAA investigator with measurements and he asked us our opinion on things about the airplane because he was not a pilot.

"He's an Air National Guard firefighter and he was familiar with military jets but not that familiar with general aviation aircraft," Glidden said.

The two CAP members were able to assist the investigator in other facets of his investigation at the scene as well. For example, he had documented and GPS-marked the position of what he thought was the Cessna's separated spinner.

Glidden pointed out, though, that the aircraft was not equipped with a spinner and that the component in question was part of a wheel fairing.

"I also commented about my uncertainty that the engine was even operating when the aircraft hit for the fact that only one blade was damaged on the propeller and that there was no evidence of digging marks on the ground where the nose and prop initially hit," Glidden said.

Glidden turned out to be correct, as the National Transportation Safety Board preliminary report shows the aircraft had engine problems and was losing oil pressure.

Local authorities and emergency response teams appreciated the CAP response and called the organization a great asset to the emergency response and disaster relief teams. In return, Reed and Glidden gained valuable experience and knowledge of what is involved in responding to an aircraft mishap.

The Cessna's pilot, Peter Fay of Mundelein, Ind., was fatally injured in the crash.

At least one of these guys is pictured in a CAP uniform.  Seems to go against all I've ever been taught about CAP ES.  This could easily have been done the right way.  They could easily have asked the locals to call the AFRCC, report a plane crash, and request local CAP assistance at the site.  Probably could have been done in 30 minutes.  This was a fatal accident with locals and FAA already on scene so there was no "emergency" situation here requiring CAP members to act on their own. 

Its one thing if you're at your squadron meeting out at the airport and a plane crashes there and you rush out to provide immediate assistance.  That sort of thing happens fairly regulary in CAP (I seem to see a story like that about once a year).  But these guys went looking for business and that ain't cool.  If it was the wrong sort of CAP member (arrogant and not very knowledgable:  "I'm with CAP and airplane searches are under the AF so I'm in charge here") you could ruin local relations for years. 

I am incredibly surprised this story was posted on CAP News Online. 

[DNall]

Yes, it should have been re-written from the release to knock out things that violate regs. We've had that conversation already I think about the need for NHQ PR to handle their business, no need to repeat it.

What those guys SHOULD have done is called AFRCC & informed them of the ES1 (whatever that is ) request, the contact number for them, and that they were already on-scene. The RCC controller would have issued them a mission number fairly quick, after verifying everything was on the level, and the guys would have been covered retroactive to when they rolled out. Thaty still should have gotten a slap on the wrist though. That's the method you're supposed to use if you're driving along & wittness a crash & happen to have your uniform in the trunk (you know half of you reading this do).

[RiverAux]

I have been told that the AFRCC really doesn't like us to call requesting a mission ourselves.  In this case, with local authorities on scene I think it would be more appropriate for them to call and ask for CAP assistance. 

I think that would have a better chance of getting approved by AFRCC if the locals called them directly rather than a CAP guy calling up and said he heard about a crash and he decided to go check it out, and "oh, by the way, can I have a mission number to cover what I decided to do on my own without even calling my wing commander or anyone else in the chain of command?"  I think that sort of request would be frowned upon. 

Doing it this way would also be a good learning experience for the locals.  We don't want them in the habit of requesting assistance directly from the CAP unit.  We want them calling the NOC or AFRCC depending on the situation.  Thats what the CAPabilities handbook is for. 

[DNall]

No right of course. What they're worried about is some idiot smacking the side of a plane on the ramp opposite the ELT mount till they get a signal on their scanner, then calling AFRCC for a mission number so they can get a find ribbon & sign off on thier SQTR.

The case above is actually pressing the limits as it clearly broke SOP for requesting CAP. Really, the FAA guy should have turned off the ELT & CAP should never have been alerted.

If you get in a situation where it's backwards like that though & you need to do anything other than point at a couple things & leave, then you do call it in to give them a heads up & contacts on the requestor. They'll do the paperwork backwards to get you covered in case you break a leg, & they'll take credit for the find/assist in their stats.

[JohnKachenmeister]

A call to wing HQ could have gotten them a temporary mission number while Wing HQ called AFRCC.

But then there is the issue of uniforms.  Not everybody carries a flight suit in the trunk of the car.

In fact, the only guy I can think of who would is in Michigan and drives a Big Red station wagon.

[Eclipse]

This would generate an official, written reprimand from me, as well as the possibility of revoking quallifications for remidiation.

There is no excuse, and these guys should have known better.

[bosshawk]

Kach: have an input into your comment about carrying flight suit in the car: I have a "go bag" in my trunk which contains a flight suit, boots, t-shirt and long johns.  I also carry my flight bag in the same trunk.  I live 50 miles from my closest CAP airplane and am often away from the house, so I guess that I figure that I best be prepared, so I carry all that junk.

A number of years ago, I was walking across the ramp at my home airport and someone from one of the FBOs called to me.  Seems that an ELT was going off and he knew that I was in CAP and asked me if I would find it and turn it off.  One other CAP member happened to be talking to me and he and I found the offending ELT and turned it off.  No notification to law enforcement, Sq, Wing, AFRCC or anyone else.  I certainly thought that what we did was perfectly legal and proper.  Of course, didn't get the local paper involved and sure as Hell didn't call National PAO.

[SJFedor]

I guess someone at national realized the screwup as well, because sometime in the past few hours, the story has been fully deleted from CAP News Online.

I keep my flight bag and my spare flight suit in my car, cuz you never know when you'll have to save the day in your 172.

[Eclipse]

It's still there as of 12:13 Chicago time.

As a screenshot now exists on my machine to prevent the re-write of history.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Kach: have an input into your comment about carrying flight suit in the car: I have a "go bag" in my trunk which contains a flight suit, boots, t-shirt and long johns.  I also carry my flight bag in the same trunk.  I live 50 miles from my closest CAP airplane and am often away from the house, so I guess that I figure that I best be prepared, so I carry all that junk.

A number of years ago, I was walking across the ramp at my home airport and someone from one of the FBOs called to me.  Seems that an ELT was going off and he knew that I was in CAP and asked me if I would find it and turn it off.  One other CAP member happened to be talking to me and he and I found the offending ELT and turned it off.  No notification to law enforcement, Sq, Wing, AFRCC or anyone else.  I certainly thought that what we did was perfectly legal and proper.  Of course, didn't get the local paper involved and sure as Hell didn't call National PAO.

I used to keep my flight bag in my trunk, but I learned the hard way that excessive heat can royally screw up a handheld GPS.  In any case, I'm a GTL, and let my mission pilot qualifications lapse.  I didn't have the time to keep current on both, so I made one of my famous "Command Decisions" to stay on the deck.  Much as I'd LIKE to fly, I recognized a few facts:

1.  As an Army (MP) officer, I knew more about movement on the ground, land navigation, effects of terrain on missions, traversing (or avoiding) difficult terrain and gleaning information from a terrain map than most CAP guys.

2.  When I was enlisted, I was a Navy hospital corpsman, and spent some of my wasted youth as a company aidman with Uncle Sam's Misguided Children.  After a tour in Vietnam, I STILL can apply 4X4's with Kling or a battle dressing in my sleep.  And thanks to PTSD, sometimes I do!

3.  I'm still a pilot, and can put a pilot's mind to the target.  "What would I do if..." can sometimes develop hunches that can pay off.

So I stay on the deck for the most part.  If I fly CAP planes it is on administrative missions.  "Hello, I'm the Inspector General, and I'm here to help you."

[ELTHunter]

I don't have first hand knowledge of it, but have heard that there have been times when ELT's have been going off at our airport for a day or two.  After telling AFRCC about it and getting to response, some one got a DF or a handheld air band radio, went out and identified the plane and asked the FBO to have someone turn it off.

[DNall]

Yeah we've turned stuff off w/o a mission number too, no big deal, no uniform either, so what. I sure as hell wouldn't admit I'd heard  pilot announce his intention to crash on scanner & then jump in a uniform & think turning off the ELT was anything like a priority. If I felt REALLY motivated, I might call AFRCC & give them a heads up to talk to FAA & MAYBE if I'm just stupid that day ask them to give me a call back if they need any help. Call to Wg is equally good.

I didn't even recheck the link here at 10 to 11, but it's funny if they pulled it. I do hope they take a minute to eval & rewrite those things in the future. Any one of us would have spotted that & could have sanitized that story to make CAP look great, while also calling their wing CC to whip out the "clue-by-four" (thx again Kach for that one.

[BillB]

WHAT is wrong with this statement?

"Hello, I'm the Inspector General, and I'm here to help you."

[JohnKachenmeister]

From my perspective, Bill, nothing.

But I've heard that statement from the perspective of a unit commander, and I am reminded of the Army addage:

"The mission of the Inspector General Corps is to come along after the battle and bayonet the wounded."

[Major Carrales]

If I remember ICS correctly, the first one on the scene is the IC until a higher more qualified authority comes on the scene.

I often see crop dusters dusting crops at various parts of the year (normally cotton), I have always wondered what I would to if it didn't pull out of that dive or if it clipped something.

I also have a scanner in my car and turn it on when passing local airfields.

Am I in the wrong? 

[Pylon]

Am I in the wrong? 

To help out in that event?  No.

Would you be in the wrong though if you pulled your zoom bag out of the trunk and changed into CAP uniform, declaring yourself the Incident Commander on scene, and then proceeded to help out others?  Well...

[Major Carrales]

Am I in the wrong? 

To help out in that event?  No.

Would you be in the wrong though if you pulled your zoom bag out of the trunk and changed into CAP uniform, declaring yourself the Incident Commander on scene, and then proceeded to help out others?  Well...

What if I called my Group Commander?

Or Someone at Wing?

Would that be right?

To do such a thing?

(sorry I just read "The Night before Christmas to a class of 8th graders that we just early dismissed for the Christmas Break)

Honestly though,  is it that out of line?

[Pylon]

Am I in the wrong? 

To help out in that event?  No.

Would you be in the wrong though if you pulled your zoom bag out of the trunk and changed into CAP uniform, declaring yourself the Incident Commander on scene, and then proceeded to help out others?  Well...

What if I called my Group Commander?

Or Someone at Wing?

Would that be right?

To do such a thing?

(sorry I just read "The Night before Christmas to a class of 8th graders that we just early dismissed for the Christmas Break)

Honestly though,  is it that out of line?

Read CAPR 60-1.  There's procedures for "911" missions when life and property are at stake.  You're smart; you can figure it out.

[Major Carrales]

Am I in the wrong? 

To help out in that event?  No.

Would you be in the wrong though if you pulled your zoom bag out of the trunk and changed into CAP uniform, declaring yourself the Incident Commander on scene, and then proceeded to help out others?  Well...

What if I called my Group Commander?

Or Someone at Wing?

Would that be right?

To do such a thing?

(sorry I just read "The Night before Christmas to a class of 8th graders that we just early dismissed for the Christmas Break)

Honestly though,  is it that out of line?

Read CAPR 60-1.  There's procedures for "911" missions when life and property are at stake.  You're smart; you can figure it out.

Yes, I am well aware of this.  But the tenor of this post begat doubt in my mind.

[SJFedor]

Shifting gears...

I was flying a 172 to South Jersey Regional on a C-9 (maintenance) sortie to get a seat rail on the passenger side repaired. I landed, cleared, and popped on the DF and set the radio to 121.5 as I always do, to make sure I don't have a beacon blaring. But alas, I turn it on, and there's a loud and proud signal. I taxi to the maintenance area, shut down, and check my own beacon, not mine. So, I sat back for a little bit, let them mess with the seat rail, and checked again. Still there. So, at that point, I made the decision to make a few phone calls.

First, to my unit commander, who forwarded me onto a wing staff officer. The response I got was "well, wander around, if you find it, tell the FBO and they can handle it." So, I did, and it was found to be a small single in a big hangar.

Just for safety, I then called the AFRCC to see if they had a report of a signal in the area, just so I could say it was located as a false alarm, so they don't send out the calvary when the FBO had already shut it down. They had one by McGuire which had been found and shut down, but none in the VAY area. I guess the hangar had shielded the signal.  I thanked the duty officer for his time, got back in my plane, and completed the maintenance sortie.


Was what I did wrong? I didn't do anything unsafe, coordinated all my actions with the FBO manager, while informing him that this was not an AFRCC mission, but rather offering to help him find the signal with my assistance, since I'm the DF god and all  , since it was obvious it was on the field, and non distress. As well, I informed my chain of command of what I was doing, the end result of it, and continued as filed. I would hope that I saved some people some time and money.


I'm sure some other CAP pilots and GT's may have come across a situation like this, how would you handle it?