The significance of 2Lt in CAP

[RLM10_2_06]

I'm starting this off based on a minor "mini-discussion" from the latest Commission thread. I have to agree with a previous post about how easy it is to simply be handed those shiny golden bars in six months. It's a hard thought that I just typed up about 3 pages of support for (then thought it was a bit pointless and decided against posting it all). In short, the insignia of an officer in this country is something special, and it should take more than some random 21-year old with a diploma or GED to obtain through a couple simple online courses and six months membership in an organization.

What I propose is a universal, not age-based, application of the flight officer program. Whether you join at 18, 21, or 65, you would be expected to progress through this program in order to achieve the rank of CAP 2Lt. I would propose adding additional steps to the Professional Development Program, or at least shifting requirements, so that 2Lt/1Lt/Capt and FO/TFO/SFO no longer share the same Professional Development requirements. What these steps would be exactly, I'm not sure, but the structure would then read SMWOG/FO/TFO/SFO/2Lt/1Lt/Capt/Maj/etc.

-Appointments and prior commissioned officer service would be exempt from this transition (Chaplains, former RM 2Lts, etc.).
-Those who are ranked CAP Major and above would also be exempt from this transition, except for the expectation to "catch up" on any new steps in the PD program before progressing to the next rank.
-Those who are ranked CAP Captain would have one year to meet the new requirements of their rank and "catch up" with any new steps in the PD program, or else have their ranks adjusted to SFO.
-Those who are ranked CAP 2Lt or 1Lt would have their ranks adjusted to FO and TFO, respectively.

I feel that not only would this change add a bit more "weight" to the officer ranks, it would also allow the Professional Development program to expand. Ideally, what I would like is that when a member hits 2Lt, they are fully prepared to choose a specialty track (if they haven't already) and take up an actual "duty" of their own within the unit. Yes, some units assign jobs to 2Lts, but to be frank, the PD program doesn't really encourage it until you become a 1Lt and Captain. The flight officer program would be great orientation, and at the same time, allow a member to be rotated many times between many jobs and capacities to really understand CAP and begin functioning within it, without having to hold any particular "capacity". Maybe after completing more "basic" requirements (orientation, CPPT, etc.), the flight officer program can also have more to it than "fishing for a specialty track";  it could be a good opportunity to look into ES, Aerospace Education, etc. to broaden the horizons of any new member, sintead of a sheer focus on one of these three missions.

Thoughts, comments, etc.?

[Seabee219]

  I do agree that some members should put on Bars because the training is not there or they abuse it. Then is it our job to train that person up to standards, I say yes. He or she can be trained or even held in that grade till the commander sees fit to promote him or her.  But I do agree that I think starting with the flight officer program is a good way to train new members. You have a good idea there I think.

[ßτε]

Ideally, what I would like is that when a member hits 2Lt, they are fully prepared to choose a specialty track (if they haven't already) and take up an actual "duty" of their own within the unit. Yes, some units assign jobs to 2Lts, but to be frank, the PD program doesn't really encourage it until you become a 1Lt and Captain.

That is the way it is now. No one should be promoted to 2d Lt simply because he or she has completed Level I and has been in 6 months. For duty performance promotions, he or she must also be performing a duty position (or assistant) and have been enrolled in a specialty track.

There is no need to create FO grades just to give people more time to do something they can do just as easily as a SMWOG.

[Short Field]

Then is it our job to train that person up to standards, I say yes.

What standard?  The standard listed in 50-17?  That one states level I completion and six months as a SM.  Level I standards are completed when the on-line tests are completed and the Fm 11 documenting the Summary Conversation is sent to National.

FYI - every unit I have been in encouraged the new members to be assigned a job and specialty track as soon as they completed Level I.  That should be part of the Summary Conversation.  The only reason for the wait was that they didn't need to be doing anything else except concentrating on finishing level I.

[lordmonar]

In short, the insignia of an officer in this country is something special, and it should take more than some random 21-year old with a diploma or GED to obtain through a couple simple online courses and six months membership in an organization.

Before we go any further.   Let's make it 100% clear and above the board.

CAP officers are NOT "an officer in this country" if you mean a commissioned officer in the armed forces of the United States.

That is your primary failing.   I have not read any more of what you posted....because right there you are finished.   Nothing else that follows is of any signiifcants unless it is "But we are not officers so it does not really matter".

A CAP is 2d Lt is just that....a CAP officer.  Just as a police Lt is just a police Lt and a fire Capt is a fire Capt.  They are not compared to USAF Lts and Capts.....so CAP Lts, Capts, Majs, Cols, and Generals should not compared to those in the USAF who hold ranks with similar titles.

Any program that is trying to make CAP ranks "more like USAF ranks" is in my honest opinion just a waste of time.

We will never be treated with respect by "real" officers even if we made all of our officers have 4 year degrees, go to a 90 day OCS and follow the same exact PME and promotion steps as the real air force.

It won't happen....sorry that is just the way it is.

So why waste the our time trying to "earn respect" for people who it does not even really matter?

Let's focus more on pratical applications....if Level I is too easy......come up with a better program.

Edit:  One little word changes the whole meaning of my rant 

[Eclipse]

A CAP is 2d Lt is just that....a CAP officer.  Just as a police Lt is just a police Lt and a fire Capt is a fire Capt.  They are not compared to USAF Lts and Capts.....so CAP Lts, Capts, Majs, Cols, and Generals should not compared to those in the USAF who hold ranks with similar titles.

Any program that is trying to make CAP ranks "more like USAF ranks" is in my honest opinion just a waste of time.

+1

We will never be treated with respect by "real" officers even if we made all of our officers have 4 year degrees, go to a 90 day OCS and follow the same exact PME and promotion steps as the real air force.

Here I have an issue - if you meant "equals", OK, that makes sense, we aren't combatants and that's a closed club, but I have never been treated with anything but respect by officers and NCO's of other services, and the respect usually becomes admiration when they hear we are doing what we do as volunteers, however that is also predicated on demonstrated performance and capability, not simply walking into a room.

[Dracosbane]

There's also one group of people who you're forgetting when it comes to your "your rank will reduce to..." postulation, those of us who were cadet officers who earned our rank thanks to advancement in the program previously. 

I for one would not like my previous contributions overlooked just because my Mitchell only gave me butterbars when you strip me of my (now earned 1st Lt) rank.

Also, you mention that you should be a staff member only as 1st Lts or Capts.  I disagree.  Not every unit has enough SMs to fill all the slots required to run the unit.  I hold three staff positions specifically, not including other stuff I do.  And I had to take those positions almost as soon as my name appeared on the MML, if not just before.

Could there be some extra steps in the PD program before receiving butterbars?  Maybe.  Could we give SMs with no previous experience the rank of SFO after Lvl 1 and 2d Lt after Lvl 1.5?  Possibly, but there'd have to be those extra steps thought up and inserted into the PD program.  Or perhaps making the TIG for 2d Lt nine months or a year.

Or, leave it the way it is, and let the unit commanders make the choice as to whether or not someone is "officer" material after that first six months.  Promotions aren't just handed (granted sometimes it's just pencil whipped) just because you're a member.  Or at least that's the way it supposed to be.

[vmstan]

No offense to the OP, but you're not even a member yet (according to your signature)

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

No offense to the OP, but you're not even a member yet (according to your signature)

Good point.

However, the OP also makes a few valid points.

I, for one, would be very pleased to get rid of the "Senior Member," "Senior Member Without Grade," "SMWOG" and all assorted appellations.  I have always found them very unprofessional sounding.  A recent newly-minted 2nd Lieutenant in my unit told me that she was so glad to be promoted, not so much as for the title of "Lieutenant" but for no longer having to be "Senior Member."

The Navy Sea Cadets use "Instructor" for much the same purpose.

Maybe opening up the Flight Officer ranks is an answer.  Maybe re-adopting the Warrant Officer grades (please, don't kill me, I'm just hypothesising) is another.

Hypothetically:

Until fingerprint check clears and CPPT done: no title, no uniform
After fingerprint check and CPPT: Flight Officer, can wear the uniform
After six months: Membership Ribbon
After one year, Level 1 and assignment to speciality track: 2nd Lieutenant

However, I would differ from the OP in that I would grandfather all current grades in as is...with the exception of the odious "SMWOG."

[RLM10_2_06]

Yes, true, I'm not a member, only making speculation based off my experience with CAP and members with the squadron I'm interested in joining.

I DO wholeheartedly agree that comparing us to military officers is not accurate; we are not commissioned, we are volunteers, and thus do not earn the rank like they do; I mean "officer in this country" to mean "somebody wearing officer rank while existing within the physical agreed confines of the borders of the United States". Officer rank IS special; it's a symbol given a very special meaning in our CULTURE. I have not seen Lt rank handed to ANYBODY in any other organization (firefighters, police, etc.) with six months of "orientation" experience. Officer rank is just that; OFFICER rank. Everybody else who uses these insignia have something in common; LEADERSHIP. The military, police, firefighters, etc. all have a form of "enlisted" or "training" ranks in which they EARN their way up; for OCS and ROTC, they have alternate ranks for those who are LEARNING the basics of their organization. Looking simply at the Professional Development system, you're still "learning" until you're a Lt Col, yes, but you're also not ENCOURAGED to even HAVE a job until you're a 1Lt. Can you tell me that a 2Lt who has JUST finished the necessary training to be around cadets and people in general in CAP is a pillar of leadership? That's like saying a RM Lt who hasn't been through AIT or any officer training is suitable to lead the platoon they would probably be assigned (sorry, thinking Army).

Incidentally, I DID forget the cadet thing, didn't I? Okay, you're ALLOWED to have a bump up too  use the same system that exists now, I suppose? You would just have to catch up on PD before moving on, like cadets having to do CPPT when they turn 18.

I guess that my problem here is that I believe that CAP is handing out something with a legitimate meaning in our CULTURE in such a wanton manner that it seems to have the "easiest" requirements to wear the rank that I know of. If it were up to me, I'd say that CAP needs to use different ranks and insignia, but I'd like to EVER see that happen.

[lordmonar]

Heck they hand it out to USAF officers!

A college degree and the 90 day wonder school and TADA! you are a 2d Lt.

Even the ROTC and Academy routes....are not better.

Let's not put anything on a pedestal!

Butter Bars, stripes and stars only have meaning with the context of the organisation issuing them.  Trying to hold them up to outside meaning is again....just a waste of time.

[ZigZag911]

Here's my proposal, very simple: Level 1 plus 12 months CAP service before ANY appointment to ANY officer grade, no exceptions, no special circumstances.

[Short Field]

Compared to the ideas presented so far, IMHO we would be even`better off as an organization if we just required a $2,000 donation to the unit fund for each promotion.   

[bosshawk]

That certainly would cut down on the paperwork.

[vmstan]

No offense to the OP, but you're not even a member yet (according to your signature)

Good point.

However, the OP also makes a few valid points.

I, for one, would be very pleased to get rid of the "Senior Member," "Senior Member Without Grade," "SMWOG" and all assorted appellations.  I have always found them very unprofessional sounding.  A recent newly-minted 2nd Lieutenant in my unit told me that she was so glad to be promoted, not so much as for the title of "Lieutenant" but for no longer having to be "Senior Member."

I'll be honest, I will be really excited to get my butter bars. Probably even more excited than I will be to get rid of them.

However, I'm into my second or third month as an "SMWOG" and truth be told, it's going fairly quickly. If you sit around for 6 months and wait for promotion before you feel like you're worthy of being there, or of taking on tasks, or doing professional development... sure, it would probably suck. I take the view that I'm going to do as much as possible and work as hard as I can to prove to my commander and my unit that I deserve to be there.

In someways it can separate a lot of people out of the program really quickly without giving them the "look" of being a real officer without doing a little work. If you're going to let some lack of gold stitching make you feel like any less of an individual (or let it make you like you're more than those without it) that's really too bad.

Assuming you're active and do the Level 1 in any reasonable period of time... it's just six months. Senior Member is a more than fitting title for that period. If someone wants to make me a Flight Officer tomorrow night, feel free, but it's not going to magically increase my dedication to the program.

That all said, I already have a pair of 2nd LT grey epulettes ready to go when my time comes When I'm ready.

[FW]

Heck they hand it out to USAF officers!

A college degree and the 90 day wonder school and TADA! you are a 2d Lt.

Even the ROTC and Academy routes....are not better.


Let's not put anything on a pedestal!



Butter Bars, stripes and stars only have meaning with the context of the organisation issuing them.  Trying to hold them up to outside meaning is again....just a waste of time.

Ya think?!  Excellent comment.

This is "our" culture.  Senior members in CAP get promoted based on CAP guidlines with approval of the U.S. Air Force.  I can live with it. 

[kd8gua]

Maybe opening up the Flight Officer ranks is an answer.  Maybe re-adopting the Warrant Officer grades (please, don't kill me, I'm just hypothesising) is another.

What if there was a way that members who are not eligible for Mission-Related Skills initial advanced promotions, who would rather focus on a specialty track or tracks instead of wanting to be eligible for leadership positions such as squadron/group commander etc., to opt into a Warrant Officer program? The member would be eligible to apply for promotion to the next officer grade at their next promotion if they would like to get involved more with direct leadership items. There really wouldn't be a precedent to go from an officer grade to a warrant officer grade unless good reason was given, I suppose. There are 5 warrant officer grades that would easily co-exist with the 5 officer grades members can promote to (2nd Lt. to Lt. Col.).

The Flight Officer insignia could still be used for transitional members until their 21st birthday, at which time they could accept a position as a warrant officer or officer in respect to the last FO grade the member promoted to.

Again, if someone is eligible for a MRS promotion, they wouldn't be held to a WO grade or what-have-you. I feel all members should be given the option depending on whether they want to work more directly in day-to-day chain of command or day-to-day specialty tracks. I don't think you'd have to be a Major to be a mission or special activity commander. Especially if it is something like an ES mission, there would be nothing wrong with a CWO in command.

I don't know, just random thoughts.

[andysum15]

Morning All.
As a former RAF enlisted and O3 RAF volunteer reserve training branch (RAFVR(T)) I would like to give you all an idea as to how officer grade is achieved withe the Air Training Corps (CAP equivalent in the UK). All officers are commissioned in the RAFVR(T).
The number of uniformed positions for senior members on an ATC squadron depends on the number of cadets. If there is a vacant position a senior member can apply for that position. The application has to be approved by the Squadron Commander. The application is then reviewed by the Wing Commander and if accepted the candidate then goes for a wing board consisting of the Wing Commander, Wing Staff Officer and a Squadron Commander.
If the applicant is going for enlisted rank approval is done at this level. Commissioned Officers then go for a Regional board, consisting of the Regional Commander, Regional Staff Officer and a Wing Commander. The application then is forwarded to the Ministry of Defence for final approval but usually go with Regional Commanders recommendations. Once the commission is granted the newly appointed officer must attend Initial Officer Training course held at Headquarters Air Cadets (RAF Cranwell school of officer training). It is a one week course unlike the regular commissioned officers of 16 weeks.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Your RAFVR(T) officers are actually paid for their time, and hold a Queen's Commission.

There is an almost identical situation with the Royal Canadian Air Cadets, Australian Air Force Cadets and New Zealand Air Cadet Corps.

The officers are special/limited duty, but commissioned officers nonetheless, subject to Queen's Regulations for their respective Services (like UCMJ here).

I don't think the RAF Cranwell training course is a bad idea at all, but I don't see it happening here...would USAFA Colorado Springs, OTS Maxwell, or ANG Academy of Military Science (which I think is now closed, anyway) be willing and/or able to incorporate a week-long CAP officer training curriculum?

[andysum15]

True RAFVR(T) Officers are paid but only for certain activities and up to 28 days pay a year. For normal parade nights there is no pay. Annual camp, taking cadets to RAF stations for flying or shooting and all courses are when you receive pay.
Although I can not see the same thing happening within the CAP and SLS/CLC course go a long way towards preparing senior members for their CAP career I do think we have a lot to learn from the ATC. That said the CAP does have a lot of resources available which the ATC does not.
None uniformed adult members are called Civilian Instructors, because they assist with instruction of cadets. Not a term we could use for all Senior Members with in CAP.
I do think it would be nice to use a rank or some different term for senior members until they become 2nd Lt. Maybe we could use Flight Officer rank for everyone entering as senior member.