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CAP Talk  |  Recent Posts
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 91 
 on: August 14, 2017, 01:13:12 PM 
Started by kcebnaes - Last post by grunt82abn
Wait, what?  Me choosing to wear my earned grade from the parent service of this organization is ego-stroking?  And the handing out of shiny pins at 6 months and the ability to maintain breathing and sending checks isn't?

How about I continue to wear my stripes and do what I do, and the dime-a-dozen officers keep performing at the level of glorified E-3s, and let me do it. They'll get the credit and move along. I'm cool with that because I live for mission accomplishment and taking care of my people, which is NCO business.

The probable outcome if tomorrow all senior members were re-graded into a new structure, aligned with their parent service that put them in grade according to their job, would be a mass exodus of members.  All these cats want to be #TotalForce but when it comes to what they wear, they start waiving their CAP union card because they're too good to be a lowly Airman.

We knowingly took a track that we feel fits us best to make the most contribution to this organization. We pay way more for insignia than the officers we follow. My ego is so stroked right now.

Whatever, dude.

That is absolutely awesome!

 92 
 on: August 14, 2017, 01:06:21 PM 
Started by kcebnaes - Last post by Jester
Wait, what?  Me choosing to wear my earned grade from the parent service of this organization is ego-stroking?  And the handing out of shiny pins at 6 months and the ability to maintain breathing and sending checks isn't?

How about I continue to wear my stripes and do what I do, and the dime-a-dozen officers keep performing at the level of glorified E-3s, and let me do it. They'll get the credit and move along. I'm cool with that because I live for mission accomplishment and taking care of my people, which is NCO business.

The probable outcome if tomorrow all senior members were re-graded into a new structure, aligned with their parent service that put them in grade according to their job, would be a mass exodus of members.  All these cats want to be #TotalForce but when it comes to what they wear, they start waiving their CAP union card because they're too good to be a lowly Airman.

We knowingly took a track that we feel fits us best to make the most contribution to this organization. We pay way more for insignia than the officers we follow. My ego is so stroked right now.

Whatever, dude.

 93 
 on: August 14, 2017, 01:02:47 PM 
Started by kcebnaes - Last post by grunt82abn
IMNSHO:
The whole CAP NCO program as it exists today is nothing but an ego stroking program for current and former military NCOs. It has been said that NCOs are the backbone of the military and this is absolutely true the same cannot be said with CAP. CAP does not have the cast system the military does, and adopting it would likely close many units and cause a major drop in membership.
Points:
1. Only current and former military NCOs can be CAP NCOs. As such they are expected to pass on the military knowledge for CAP. Fine, until you start letting non-military personnel be NCOs. Then how do you gain the knowledge? Establish a course for them. Great! But why limit it to NCOs? Why not make it available to ALL senior members?
2. We have no NCO specific duties. Any CAP member can fill any position.
3. Four years on and there is still a statistically insignificant number of CAP NCOs.

The NCO program, as dreamt, was the special project of a former national commander. Once he left the position, the program began to wither. Currently, the reg revision rewrite is being blamed for not making progress on it, but there has not been any guidance regarding it from National since it was unveiled. The program was ramrodded through to prevent other ideas from being considered.

So because I'm an NCO, I'm on an ego trip? If anyone is, it's the officer that walks into the room at a meeting and starts chewing out another SM in front of everyone because he thinks his rank actually means something. I have seen more officers in CAP stroke their own egos in CAP because they think they are something they are not. I have never acted the way I would on active duty, have never chewed out someone, or disrespected someone because I thought I had that right because of my rank as an NCO, but I have seen it from plenty of officers. I don't wear stripes because I think I am better than anyone, or it gives me some certain power to treat people like they are beneath me. I chose to be an NCO because I like wearing stripes, it is ascetically pleasing to me!
I did not say ego TRIP, I said ego STROKING. Different things.

Quote
I chose to be an NCO because I like wearing stripes, it is ascetically pleasing to me!
So, being an NCO make you feel better about yourself. Got it. Ego stroked.
The only thing that makes me feel better about myself is to do what is expected of me, and complete tasks and missions regardless of what rank I wear. They could take away my rank, and it wouldn't matter.

 94 
 on: August 14, 2017, 12:54:44 PM 
Started by kcebnaes - Last post by arajca
IMNSHO:
The whole CAP NCO program as it exists today is nothing but an ego stroking program for current and former military NCOs. It has been said that NCOs are the backbone of the military and this is absolutely true the same cannot be said with CAP. CAP does not have the cast system the military does, and adopting it would likely close many units and cause a major drop in membership.
Points:
1. Only current and former military NCOs can be CAP NCOs. As such they are expected to pass on the military knowledge for CAP. Fine, until you start letting non-military personnel be NCOs. Then how do you gain the knowledge? Establish a course for them. Great! But why limit it to NCOs? Why not make it available to ALL senior members?
2. We have no NCO specific duties. Any CAP member can fill any position.
3. Four years on and there is still a statistically insignificant number of CAP NCOs.

The NCO program, as dreamt, was the special project of a former national commander. Once he left the position, the program began to wither. Currently, the reg revision rewrite is being blamed for not making progress on it, but there has not been any guidance regarding it from National since it was unveiled. The program was ramrodded through to prevent other ideas from being considered.

So because I'm an NCO, I'm on an ego trip? If anyone is, it's the officer that walks into the room at a meeting and starts chewing out another SM in front of everyone because he thinks his rank actually means something. I have seen more officers in CAP stroke their own egos in CAP because they think they are something they are not. I have never acted the way I would on active duty, have never chewed out someone, or disrespected someone because I thought I had that right because of my rank as an NCO, but I have seen it from plenty of officers. I don't wear stripes because I think I am better than anyone, or it gives me some certain power to treat people like they are beneath me. I chose to be an NCO because I like wearing stripes, it is ascetically pleasing to me!
I did not say ego TRIP, I said ego STROKING. Different things. And yes, I have seen CAP NCOs come in and start chewing out other CAP members, up to Lt Col, because the officers did not recognize the NCO's inherent superiority. Never mind one of those was a retired NCO, who decided to go the officer route as it fit in with the CAP culture. Also, the CAP MSgt who went around pointing at their stripes telling other CAP members "when  you see these, think Lt Col."

Quote
I chose to be an NCO because I like wearing stripes, it is ascetically pleasing to me!
So, being an NCO make you feel better about yourself. Got it. Ego stroked.

 95 
 on: August 14, 2017, 12:54:02 PM 
Started by AG13 - Last post by Mordecai
I can copy you the regs (FAA orders) but read it through one more time. 1. Correct, ATC may assign you that code. 2. NOTE-1 Aircraft NOT in contact with ATC may use the 1255 for firefighting. NOTE 2 does read different in that is says 1277 "may be advised" to use 1277. The actual orders and interpretations vary, but if you contact ATC and ask for use it will be gladly given. There is a push on the ATC side to have SAR aircraft to use the code to assist with monitoring a TFR. What the radar team will present at National will show you why this is important. So, yes, request o take off you be allowed to use 1277 unless you want a discrete for VFR flight following. in many areas, VFR flight following is not available due to radar coverage or workload. We have many other sensors out that have coverage other than what Center has access to, so do not let that deter your from using 1277. Here soon, when the next round of Iridium Satellites get launched, we will have greater coverage if your aircraft is ADSB equipped. (limitations apply). Beta testing is in progress as we speak.

Thanks for helping get the word out!
Mark
 

Silly thought... if this is that important, can NHQ publish an advisory that gets added to the RSS feed in e-services? Then EVERY pilot and member for that matter will see it.

 96 
 on: August 14, 2017, 12:47:26 PM 
Started by jmp14 - Last post by Mordecai
I have been a cadet in Civil Air Patrol for only about 3 months and it is not what I expected it to be. When I looked into it and joined I was expecting to always be doing something fun and exciting such as going out on missions and such. Instead all I have seen is 90% training, 10% action.

For what it's worth, I think you just defined the military with that sentence.

As much as training can suck sometimes, if you don't prove yourself in training you won't go on missions. The big missions also tend to not play with your schedules very well. If you find yourself two signoffs short of a qual and a callout for a Katrina level response occurs, you aren't going.

If you believe the training is deficient, however, you have three options:

1. Suggest changes up the chain of command

2. Be the change you wish to see in the unit: Ask to help on the planning and execution side of the training

3. Pay to go to a national training academy.

 97 
 on: August 14, 2017, 12:43:38 PM 
Started by kcebnaes - Last post by grunt82abn
IMNSHO:
The whole CAP NCO program as it exists today is nothing but an ego stroking program for current and former military NCOs. It has been said that NCOs are the backbone of the military and this is absolutely true the same cannot be said with CAP. CAP does not have the cast system the military does, and adopting it would likely close many units and cause a major drop in membership.
Points:
1. Only current and former military NCOs can be CAP NCOs. As such they are expected to pass on the military knowledge for CAP. Fine, until you start letting non-military personnel be NCOs. Then how do you gain the knowledge? Establish a course for them. Great! But why limit it to NCOs? Why not make it available to ALL senior members?
2. We have no NCO specific duties. Any CAP member can fill any position.
3. Four years on and there is still a statistically insignificant number of CAP NCOs.

The NCO program, as dreamt, was the special project of a former national commander. Once he left the position, the program began to wither. Currently, the reg revision rewrite is being blamed for not making progress on it, but there has not been any guidance regarding it from National since it was unveiled. The program was ramrodded through to prevent other ideas from being considered.

So because I'm an NCO, I'm on an ego trip? If anyone is, it's the officer that walks into the room at a meeting and starts chewing out another SM in front of everyone because he thinks his rank actually means something. I have seen more officers in CAP stroke their own egos in CAP because they think they are something they are not. I have never acted the way I would on active duty, have never chewed out someone, or disrespected someone because I thought I had that right because of my rank as an NCO, but I have seen it from plenty of officers. I don't wear stripes because I think I am better than anyone, or it gives me some certain power to treat people like they are beneath me. I chose to be an NCO because I like wearing stripes, it is ascetically pleasing to me! 

 98 
 on: August 14, 2017, 12:33:32 PM 
Started by ngreenmanjr - Last post by 1st Lt Thompson
You mean, like "First in your class at Civil Air Patrol...?"

Had they said, first in your class at a Civil Air Patrol Flight Academy, maybe. At least we got a nod, and maybe one of two film goers will wind up at gocivilairpatrol.com as a result?

 99 
 on: August 14, 2017, 12:26:42 PM 
Started by jmp14 - Last post by 1st Lt Thompson
When I looked into it and joined I was expecting to always be doing something fun and exciting such as going out on missions and such. Instead all I have seen is 90% training, 10% action.

So how do you expect to go out on missions, until you've been trained to go out on missions? 3 months in, you've barely got your Curry, let alone achieved enough training to be mission ready. If missions are what you want, then get with your Squadron ESO and come up with a game plan to get you to that point, and then be prepared to put in the work.

We train like we fight, so we can fight like we train. Training is at least 90% of the job, if not more, so that when a call does come in, we're prepared to go out and save lives, and serve our communities.

Have you completed General Emergency Services? ICUT? Gone to an Encampment? Do those things, become a GTM3 Trainee, attend some Wing SAREX's, go to Hawk, go to NESA, etc. As others have said, you get out of it what you put in. If all you've done is show up each week with unrealistic expectations, you'll end up a disappointed quitter.

If you've done all you can, and you're Squadron isn't supporting your goals, to to a few meetings at a few different Squadrons in the area, and find one that's a better fit. Speak with your Chain of Command, and then go from there.


 100 
 on: August 14, 2017, 09:56:49 AM 
Started by kcebnaes - Last post by THRAWN
The original NCO Corps Implementation Plan dated Oct 17, 2013, section 4.3 stated:
"Duty Positions: NCO's will be eligible to hold any position within CAP, including pilot, except those normally reserved for officers (e.g. Unit Commanders) and will be assigned at any CAP organizational level; Squadron, Group, Wing, Region or National Headquarters. Where possible, assignments will be rank appropriate and consider the member's professional development training, professional military skills and professional and personal goals. CAP Senior NCO's (MSgt, SMSgt, and CMsgt) may be in charge of a unit designated as a flight (if there are no other officers assigned); however, NCO's will not be authorized to command a Squadron, Group, Wing, or Region."

The CAP News release dated Oct 23, 2013 says the same thing:
"In addition, NCOs will be eligible for any CAP position, including pilots, at all organizational levels squadron, group, wing, region or national except for those reserved for officers, such as unit commander."

While there is no current regulatory guidance about a CAP NCO unable to be assigned as a unit CC, there was a Draft Input to CAPR 20-1 released to current CAP NCO's earlier this year that uses the exact wording above from the original Implementation Plan.  This draft also includes the suggested wording for the duties of the Staff NCO's at each echelon.  So if we ever see the release of the updated 20-1 that includes the NCO information we will have the answer to this question.  Until then, we are making due with what we have.

So this is all based on an "idea paper" that is neither directive nor regulatory. We're also going into the third National Commander since this whole caper took shape, with no end in sight. Got it. Thanks.

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