I was just at the McGuire/Ft. Dix/Lakehurst base MCSS and noticed that they stock the new USAF pullover (v-neck) in all sizes. This new sweater is a softer wool in a touch lighter shade, but it has a built in patch on the left breast for the flight patch to go on it (that's how it's now worn in USAF).
The question: The old one is authorized by name for us to wear. Is the new one? It's still the USAF pullover sweater. Do we wear the flight patch if we are authorized?
That's a good one and that is one for Ms. Parker...
There's a new sweater? Anyone got some links? Would like to see this thing.
Were it just the material I would say few would even notice, but since the garment has a different configuration and
there's no accounting for the leather patch, no.
Quote from: afgeo4 on April 07, 2009, 07:55:26 PM
I was just at the McGuire/Ft. Dix/Lakehurst base MCSS and noticed that they stock the new USAF pullover (v-neck) in all sizes. This new sweater is a softer wool in a touch lighter shade, but it has a built in patch on the left breast for the flight patch to go on it (that's how it's now worn in USAF).
The question: The old one is authorized by name for us to wear. Is the new one? It's still the USAF pullover sweater. Do we wear the flight patch if we are authorized?
Was the patch the only configuration difference or was there something else? A lot of the pieces that are attached to those sweaters are just sewn on and can be removed with some careful de-stitching. I would assume (having not seen this new version) that the same would apply here and you may be able to deconstruct it to look like a (now) old-style pullover.
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on April 07, 2009, 11:12:26 PM
Quote from: afgeo4 on April 07, 2009, 07:55:26 PM
I was just at the McGuire/Ft. Dix/Lakehurst base MCSS and noticed that they stock the new USAF pullover (v-neck) in all sizes. This new sweater is a softer wool in a touch lighter shade, but it has a built in patch on the left breast for the flight patch to go on it (that's how it's now worn in USAF).
The question: The old one is authorized by name for us to wear. Is the new one? It's still the USAF pullover sweater. Do we wear the flight patch if we are authorized?
Was the patch the only configuration difference or was there something else? A lot of the pieces that are attached to those sweaters are just sewn on and can be removed with some careful de-stitching. I would assume (having not seen this new version) that the same would apply here and you may be able to deconstruct it to look like a (now) old-style pullover.
From experience dealing with destitching wool sweaters, once something is sewn on there, plan on it staying there.
I have a couple of different types of sweaters like this for work, and they both have crooked patches on them (not bad, but I know they're off and it drives me nuts). When I complained to the seamstress, she said there was nothing they could do about it as trying to cut the stitches would (not could-would) damage it. And they wouldn't replace the sweater because their policy is that they don't guarantee sewing/tailoring.
You know, looking at the AAFES web page, I do not see ANY pullover sweaters at all.
There are blue and white cardigan sweaters and neither on those have the patch you talk about.
You sure this wasn't a Coast Guard uniform item?
I saw 'em at the Nellis AFB MCSS while at PCRSC. Expected availability sometime this month. They were almost out of every size there. The cardigan is unchanged but the wooly pully was changed to the new design.
Definitely a USAF item. It's new. They've been working on it for a couple of years now. I guess the fact that it's April is keeping them still in stock, at least at the McGuire/Dix/Lakehurst MCSS. I don't have pictures of it and until I find out that it's authorized, I won't because I won't buy it.
The name patch makes sense since the nameplate was required for wear with the old pullover sweater. It just makes it easier to wear this way I think.
Also, I wish they'd authorize the ABU already. McGuire has nothing left for BDU's and EVERYTHING for ABU's.
Interesting - can't find a mention of it or photo anywhere - newest mention of the word sweater on af.mil is from about 2006.
I also looked in AAFES online and had someone look in the AF portal...didn't find anything. ???
Call the McGuire AFB MCSS at (609) 723-2307 for confirmation of availability.
Quote from: afgeo4 on April 15, 2009, 01:22:29 AM
Call the McGuire AFB MCSS at (609) 723-2307 for confirmation of availability.
Why would a MCSS at one base have them while HQ AAFES doesn't even know about them?
Something's not right here.
I didn't think much of it till now but I've seen them at the clothing sales store here at Lackland too. It's the same old v-neck but with velcro on the left side of the chest.
Quote from: PHall on April 15, 2009, 01:55:17 AM
Quote from: afgeo4 on April 15, 2009, 01:22:29 AM
Call the McGuire AFB MCSS at (609) 723-2307 for confirmation of availability.
Why would a MCSS at one base have them while HQ AAFES doesn't even know about them?
Something's not right here.
Maybe it's from Vanguard. >:D
Quote from: jaybird512 on April 15, 2009, 04:08:56 AM
I didn't think much of it till now but I've seen them at the clothing sales store here at Lackland too. It's the same old v-neck but with velcro on the left side of the chest.
Nah, it ain't the same. The fabric is definitely softer and the ribbing (especially around the neck) is wider.
Quote from: afgeo4 on April 18, 2009, 03:38:37 AM
Quote from: jaybird512 on April 15, 2009, 04:08:56 AM
I didn't think much of it till now but I've seen them at the clothing sales store here at Lackland too. It's the same old v-neck but with velcro on the left side of the chest.
Nah, it ain't the same. The fabric is definitely softer and the ribbing (especially around the neck) is wider.
My goodness.
No one has posted any nametag criteria for it yet? I'm surprised.
Unless there's an ALCON msg on the AF portal regarding wear of the new woolly pully we don't know about.
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on April 20, 2009, 11:23:09 AM
Unless there's an ALCON msg on the AF portal regarding wear of the new woolly pully we don't know about.
The Navy has been using blue wolly-pullies with the leather name tag for years, I think it's a "surface warfare" distinctive-thing.
Perhaps they were sent to USAF MCSS's in error?
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on April 20, 2009, 11:23:09 AM
Unless there's an ALCON msg on the AF portal regarding wear of the new woolly pully we don't know about.
Nope!
Quote from: O-Rex on April 20, 2009, 12:30:28 PM
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on April 20, 2009, 11:23:09 AM
Unless there's an ALCON msg on the AF portal regarding wear of the new woolly pully we don't know about.
The Navy has been using blue wolly-pullies with the leather name tag for years, I think it's a "surface warfare" distinctive-thing.
Perhaps they were sent to USAF MCSS's in error?
The Navy always did and does wear BLACK pullovers. These were AF blue.
Quote from: afgeo4 on April 28, 2009, 05:39:40 PM
Quote from: O-Rex on April 20, 2009, 12:30:28 PM
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on April 20, 2009, 11:23:09 AM
Unless there's an ALCON msg on the AF portal regarding wear of the new woolly pully we don't know about.
The Navy has been using blue wolly-pullies with the leather name tag for years, I think it's a "surface warfare" distinctive-thing.
Perhaps they were sent to USAF MCSS's in error?
The Navy always did and does wear BLACK pullovers. These were AF blue.
Slightly OT.
Always, George? That's a really long time. The uniform item described above came out in the '90s, and the prescribed color is black. It is significantly different from the older all wool sweater I wore WIWOAD. (And my dad before me.)
The older item isn't black, it is Navy blue, a really dark Navy blue, and still a sea bag item.
Could this sweater be a Coast Guard uniform item?
The Coasties wear the Air Force Service and Service Dress Uniforms with Coast Guard Insignia.
Quote from: PHall on April 29, 2009, 12:58:55 AM
The Coasties wear the Air Force Service and Service Dress Uniforms with Coast Guard Insignia.
Not quite.
Quote from: PHall on April 29, 2009, 12:58:55 AM
Could this sweater be a Coast Guard uniform item?
The Coasties wear the Air Force Service and Service Dress Uniforms with Coast Guard Insignia.
Why would they do that when, during war time, they are Navy Department? I have never seen a coastie in anything but a Navy uniform with Coast Guard insignia.
Quote from: davidsinn on April 29, 2009, 10:15:30 AM
Quote from: PHall on April 29, 2009, 12:58:55 AM
Could this sweater be a Coast Guard uniform item?
The Coasties wear the Air Force Service and Service Dress Uniforms with Coast Guard Insignia.
Why would they do that when, during war time, they are Navy Department? I have never seen a coastie in anything but a Navy uniform with Coast Guard insignia.
That was true until about the 1970's
The
only service or dress uniform that the Coast Guard and Navy currently share is the officer's full dress whites, which CG officers rarely wear.
Quote from: davidsinn on April 29, 2009, 10:15:30 AM
Quote from: PHall on April 29, 2009, 12:58:55 AM
Could this sweater be a Coast Guard uniform item?
The Coasties wear the Air Force Service and Service Dress Uniforms with Coast Guard Insignia.
Why would they do that when, during war time, they are Navy Department? I have never seen a coastie in anything but a Navy uniform with Coast Guard insignia.
According to wiki, and my own eyes.......
QuoteIn 1972, the current Coast Guard dress blue uniform was introduced for wear by both officers and enlisted personnel; the transition was completed during 1974. Relatively similar in appearance to the old-style U.S. Air Force uniforms, the uniform consists of a blue four-pocket single breasted jacket and trousers in a slightly darker shade. A light-blue button-up shirt with a pointed collar, two front button-flap pockets, "enhanced" shoulder boards for officers, and pin-on collar insignia for Chief Petty Officers and enlisted personnel is worn when in shirt-sleeve order (known as "Tropical Blue").
Wow. I feel dumb now :-\ I could have sworn I saw a Lt Cmdr in Navy dress blues but USCG insignia last year. Of course it was in passing and he could have been Navy.
Quote from: davidsinn on April 29, 2009, 01:31:47 PM
Wow. I feel dumb now :-\ I could have sworn I saw a Lt Cmdr in Navy dress blues but USCG insignia last year. Of course it was in passing and he could have been Navy.
Dress blues but non-Navy insignia could have been a USPHS commissioned officer.
Quote from: Pylon on April 29, 2009, 01:35:36 PM
Quote from: davidsinn on April 29, 2009, 01:31:47 PM
Wow. I feel dumb now :-\ I could have sworn I saw a Lt Cmdr in Navy dress blues but USCG insignia last year. Of course it was in passing and he could have been Navy.
Dress blues but non-Navy insignia could have been a USPHS commissioned officer.
There are also non-line naval officers (Doctor's Lawyers and about a dozen other positions) who have distinctive insignia in lieu of the standard star that you see on shoulder boards or sleeve braid.
Can anyone who has seen this item actually snap a picture and post it here. I asked my AAFES clerk, and she knew nothing about it.
Quote from: Spike on April 29, 2009, 08:48:37 PM
Can anyone who has seen this item actually snap a picture and post it here. I asked my AAFES clerk, and she knew nothing about it.
Over the past month I have asked the folks at three MCSS's about this "new" sweater and all said they hadn't heard a thing.
The MCSS's were at March ARB, Los Angeles AFB and Edwards AFB, all in California.
Next time I'm at McGuire I'll take a picture and post it here.
^ Thank you.
Quote from: afgeo4 on May 01, 2009, 01:52:34 AM
Next time I'm at McGuire I'll take a picture and post it here.
Or even better, take a picture of an Air Force member wearing said sweater.
Quote from: PHall on May 01, 2009, 03:17:28 AM
Or even better, take a picture of an Air Force member wearing said sweater.
"Hey Airman, can I take a picture of you on my cellphone"? Might come off the wrong way.....
Saw them yesterday at the MacDill Uniform store. Very few in stock.
Quote from: Cecil DP on May 01, 2009, 01:16:37 PM
Saw them yesterday at the MacDill Uniform store. Very few in stock.
Very few left at MacDill? I didn't know that Florida and CENTCOM were so hard up for sweaters.
Quote from: afgeo4 on May 02, 2009, 06:09:33 PM
Quote from: Cecil DP on May 01, 2009, 01:16:37 PM
Saw them yesterday at the MacDill Uniform store. Very few in stock.
Very few left at MacDill? I didn't know that Florida and CENTCOM were so hard up for sweaters.
It does get chilly down there every so often. When I lived in the Jacksonville area, I was frequently treated to crunchy grass in the morning when I left for work.
Quote from: afgeo4 on May 02, 2009, 06:09:33 PM
Quote from: Cecil DP on May 01, 2009, 01:16:37 PM
Saw them yesterday at the MacDill Uniform store. Very few in stock.
Very few left at MacDill? I didn't know that Florida and CENTCOM were so hard up for sweaters.
It could also be that when new items come out they're in limited supply, so a limited distribution to every MCSS would be in order.
When I was over at the Nellis AFB MCSS during PCRSC, the new wooly pully was in very short supply.
Quote from: Cecil DP on May 02, 2009, 07:51:13 PM
Quote from: afgeo4 on May 02, 2009, 06:09:33 PM
Quote from: Cecil DP on May 01, 2009, 01:16:37 PM
Saw them yesterday at the MacDill Uniform store. Very few in stock.
Very few left at MacDill? I didn't know that Florida and CENTCOM were so hard up for sweaters.
It could also be that when new items come out they're in limited supply, so a limited distribution to every MCSS would be in order.
That's probably why they started distributing in the spring. There isn't that much of a need for it. By the time cold weather comes around again, they should have enough on the shelves. Couple of years after that we might be authorized to wear it too.
Quote from: afgeo4 on May 03, 2009, 06:17:24 AM
Quote from: Cecil DP on May 02, 2009, 07:51:13 PM
Quote from: afgeo4 on May 02, 2009, 06:09:33 PM
Quote from: Cecil DP on May 01, 2009, 01:16:37 PM
Saw them yesterday at the MacDill Uniform store. Very few in stock.
Very few left at MacDill? I didn't know that Florida and CENTCOM were so hard up for sweaters.
It could also be that when new items come out they're in limited supply, so a limited distribution to every MCSS would be in order.
That's probably why they started distributing in the spring. There isn't that much of a need for it. By the time cold weather comes around again, they should have enough on the shelves. Couple of years after that we might be authorized to wear it too.
Heh, maybe in a decade or so...
I was at the Hanscom MCSS yesterday and happened to snap a picture of this on the shelf. Unfortunately, I don't appear to have the ability to upload pics using the mobile version of CT. Will try a bit later...
Check out the hock shop they have it listed with a pic ;)
(http://www.thehock.com/shop/images/358-1455.jpg)
done and done.
Wouldn't buy one until I see a matching sweater at AAFES MCSS, and an ICL from CAP that authorizes it and the nametag/patch specs.
Quote from: MIKE on August 21, 2009, 09:17:47 PM
Wouldn't buy one until I see a matching sweater at AAFES MCSS, and an ICL from CAP that authorizes it and the nametag/patch specs.
Good advice MIKE, I just wonder how many CAP people bought it already :(
ya.....
Count me as one of those that will never buy that. It is plain ugly.
I tried it on at McGuire MCSS and it looks good. However, it's not yet CAP authorized, so I will continue to wear the old one.
According to CAPM39-1, the ONLY devices authorized for wear with the USAF blue V-neck pullover sweater are shoulder boards and the wing/unit patch on the upper left sleeve. Our squadron commander wore one of these "new" sweaters with the cloth "badge" patch, and wore his nameplate there. He was promptly and severely upbraided by a senior officer from wing for wearing the additional device (even though there was a place for it to go).
So until we see it in print as an amendment to the 39-1, "that's the fact Jack!"
Quote from: OldCrow on March 15, 2011, 06:10:21 PMHe was promptly and severely upbraided by a senior officer from wing for wearing the additional device (even though there was a place for it to go).
Because a simple, "Hey, FYI, you can't actually wear that on there" wouldn't have worked just as well?
The sweater with the name patch has not been officially approved for our wear, and we haven't worn wing patches on the sweater for about 5 years.
There is certainly no approval, implied or otherwise, for wearing a name badge on there (for CAP), and wearing a nameplate there would look ridiculous.
Another case of just making things up.
..wont you be my neighbor...
There is nothing wrong with the pullover when you wear it properly - it is a professional and quick way to complete
a uniform. Just about every military services wears them, as well as LEA's, FD's, and similar all over the country.