After a morning meeting at the Group HQ, figuring that since I was most of the way there anyway, I decided to grab a view of the Shuttle Endeavour enroute through Los Angeles...
(http://17500mph.com/ForumContent/DSCN4528S.jpg)
Despite the carefully choreographed movements, all the pre-planning, and preparations, the second day was not going to be on time. You know, the old adage.. called for a shuttle, it was late.
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A China Southern Airlines 747F on final approach to LAX, passing overhead.
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Among the various GA Aircraft passing through, the helicopters had the advantage for sure. This Eurocopter hung around for quite a while, at one time it sported the NBC 7 LA livery, but is not registered to them anymore.
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What's a big event without the Goodyear Blimp? ... On the way inbound earlier in the day I saw the blimp moored at it's Carson base, but by the time I got on scene it was orbiting the Shuttle location as it moved. It was one way to know that it was getting closer.
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I didn't realize it, after parking a few blocks away I figured "The Wal*Mart parking lot would make a good place to go", but it was actually a designated viewing area, and an afternoon show was to take place while crews from Sarens International re-configured the dollies under the shuttle for the narrower width of Martin Luther King Blvd. As they say. The Show Must Go On. The Shuttle was a no show, but the show went on. I stayed put where I was as to not lose my coveted spot. :)
(http://17500mph.com/ForumContent/DSCN4578S.jpg)
Finally, some 6 hours later. Houston, we have a visual. Endeavour is in visual range.
(http://17500mph.com/ForumContent/DSCN4585S.jpg)
Coming into view, the size was not much of a surprise to me, as I've seen Space Shuttle's before, up close. But clearly many were quite surprised. Definitely not your typical sight.. even in aerospace rich Southern California.
(http://17500mph.com/ForumContent/DSCN4590S.jpg)
A little further, and the cheers got louder. This is at the southern approach of Crenshaw to Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd.
(http://17500mph.com/ForumContent/DSCN4611S.jpg)
Endeavour is on a restocking mission, budget cuts and all, even NASA knows a deal when they see it. Save Money. Live Better. But the parking meter fee will be a killer. It takes up several spots ... ;)
(http://17500mph.com/ForumContent/DSCN4627S.jpg)
Hey, that's like, umm.. right outside! I figured I'd go do some shopping, and take care of nature's business, as I was not going to get out of there anytime soon. The multi-story Wally World locations are a trip.. the familiar floor plan is .. just not there. But .. what's more fun than a Wally World Run!
(http://17500mph.com/ForumContent/DSCN4637S.jpg)
Endeavour has turned the corner onto eastbound Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd., tail facing the stage area that was scheduled to be active while the Sarens crews were reconfiguring the undercarriage transport equipment.
(http://17500mph.com/ForumContent/DSCN4643S.jpg)
A closer up, full view without obstructions, and the surrounding crowds. Endeavour was at this location until just after zero hour. It had originally been scheduled to be at the California Science Center about this time.
(http://17500mph.com/ForumContent/DSCN4655S.jpg)
A little closer this time.
(http://17500mph.com/ForumContent/DSCN4674S.jpg)
..and that was it for the evening. I met my objective of getting some urban shuttle shots.
Very cool shots. I try not to get worked up over things out of my control, but I'm pretty upset that these marvels of engineering are going to museums while we continue on with no manned space program.
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on October 14, 2012, 10:33:03 PM
Very cool shots. I try not to get worked up over things out of my control, but I'm pretty upset that these marvels of engineering are going to museums while we continue on with no manned space program.
You know, people keep saying this.
We do have a manned space program, we just don't have a flying vehicle at the moment.
everytime someone says "Well, what a bummer, they killed our manned space program" I think:
"A) Someone better tell the NASA astronauts on the ISS"
and
"B) Someone should tell the astronaut office at JSC this, cuz those boys is out of a job an' don't know it!"
One of the proposed replacements for the shuttle is currently docked at the ISS. The Dragon.
Quote from: PHall on October 14, 2012, 11:43:57 PM
One of the proposed replacements for the shuttle is currently docked at the ISS. The Dragon.
Yep, thats my point. In 1972, when we cancelled Apollo, Shuttle was YEARS away. Didn't mean we didn't have a program in-work, or that we no longer had a manned program, it meant that we didn't have anything flying.
Now, yeah, we flew Saturn/Apollo again, what, 5 more times? 4 times for Skylab and once for ASTP.
Following ASTP, Shuttle was in the pipeline, but did not fly until 1981. That was, what, 6 years without assured manned access to space.
At least we seem to have some additional options on the horizon. And in less than 6 years.
I wonder how much less it would have cost to build a place to house the shuttle at LAX or even Edwards AFB rather than moving it to the chosen location. It would have definitely been less disruptive and intrusive on people's lives.
Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on October 15, 2012, 12:13:14 AM
I wonder how much less it would have cost to build a place to house the shuttle at LAX or even Edwards AFB rather than moving it to the chosen location. It would have definitely been less disruptive and intrusive on people's lives.
But who would go to LAX or EDW just to see the shuttle?
At least at the California Science Center, its wrapped with infrastructure.
Besides, how many days of "disruption" is there, really? Its a freakin' space shuttle, not a Yugo!
Edwards has the Flight Test Museum and the shuttle would be an excellent and very proper fit especially considering Edwards' role in the shuttle program of which you might or might not be aware. That of course is just my opinion and you might believe otherwise.
There is also a small museum at LAX already though it does not have a great deal to offer at this time. Adding the shuttle would have been a great addition and they could have turned it into something bigger. Considering the important roles that aerospace companies in the area LAX, El Segundo and Hawthorne areas have played, it would be a nice tip of the hat to them.
I know that whenever I fly into IAD, I always try to take a detour to the Air & Space Udvar-Hazy Center if time permits. So, yes I do think people would go.
Are you aware of how many trees had to be cut down, power lines moved, streets closed, businesses hurt because of this?
Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on October 15, 2012, 12:37:35 AM
Edwards has the Flight Test Museum and the shuttle would be an excellent and very proper fit especially considering Edwards' role in the shuttle program of which you might or might not be aware. That of course is just my opinion and you might believe otherwise.
There is also a small museum at LAX already though it does not have a great deal to offer at this time. Adding the shuttle would have been a great addition and they could have turned it into something bigger. Considering the important roles that aerospace companies in the area LAX, El Segundo and Hawthorne areas have played, it would be a nice tip of the hat to them.
OK, did either the flight test museum or the small museum at LAX submit bid packages to become a recipient of a Space Shuttle?
Its not like displaying an Apollo capsule under plexiglass or a training spacesuit.
There were *very* specific artifact protection and display requirements placed upon the entities that bid for, and would potentially receive a shuttle. We're talking packages that were going to cost, at the very least, tens of millions of dollars in infrastructure, buildings, display construction, etc.
Not "Welp, lets wheel ol' Endeavour into the hangar here next to Bill Flabob's 1st Piper Cub..."
Not to mention that the shuttles essentially went to museums with established programs, curatorial staff, visitor programs, sufficient yearly vistorships, etc, to ensure that the artifacts would be well cared for, be seen by many, and contribute to the overall NASA mission of educating the public.
These museums had to have a plan in place for their shuttle display (not necessarily funded yet) that would ensure the continued success of the museum and the display. No sense sending a shuttle to a museum just to have the mere presence of the artifact break the place and close it within 2 years.
Quote
I know that whenever I fly into IAD, I always try to take a detour to the Air & Space Udvar-Hazy Center if time permits. So, yes I do think people would go.
Sure. But Udvar-Hazy isn't 120 miles from downtown DC like Edwards is to LA. You really think that Edwards just having the shuttle would "draw" people from LA that easily?
to borrow a line from a movie "You clearly underestimate the drawing power of the Garden State."
Quote
Are you aware of how many trees had to be cut down, power lines moved, streets closed, businesses hurt because of this?
Yes, they had to cut down (and will restore) some 350 trees, move power lines, remove and lay over light poles, fill streets to the level of the curbs to give the transporters room to move, etc. And yes, a bunch of businesses took it on the chin.
I also think the overall economic impact of all those people in downtown LA for the move was probably a net positive effect on the businesses, especial food & retail.
Personally I find it insane that one of them didn't go to Houston. . .
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on October 16, 2012, 12:11:46 AM
Personally I find it insane that one of them didn't go to Houston. . .
Agree. Houston got gypped.
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on October 16, 2012, 12:11:46 AM
Personally I find it insane that one of them didn't go to Houston. . .
Agreed. The top logical choices from a historical perspective would have been Cape Canaveral, Houston & Edwards due to their direct involvement in the shuttle program. Of course the Air & Space Museum would be the best choice for a non shuttle program historical location. New York made the least sense followed by LA.
Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on October 15, 2012, 12:37:35 AMAre you aware of how many trees had to be cut down, power lines moved, streets closed, businesses hurt because of this?
I think its rediculous.
They should have just cut the wings and tail off, stuck it on a flatbed and called it shipped.
Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on October 15, 2012, 12:37:35 AM
Are you aware of how many trees had to be cut down, power lines moved, streets closed, businesses hurt because of this?
It's Los Angeles. I'd wager the crime rate along the shuttle path went down thanks to all the crews and publicity in the area.
Shuttles save lives! ;D
Quote from: wuzafuzz on October 16, 2012, 01:18:44 AM
Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on October 15, 2012, 12:37:35 AM
Are you aware of how many trees had to be cut down, power lines moved, streets closed, businesses hurt because of this?
It's Los Angeles. I'd wager the crime rate along the shuttle path went down thanks to all the crews and publicity in the area.
Shuttles save lives! ;D
"Local thugs use space shuttle for record breaking drive-by shooting today."
Quote from: AngelWings on October 16, 2012, 01:30:26 AM
Quote from: wuzafuzz on October 16, 2012, 01:18:44 AM
Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on October 15, 2012, 12:37:35 AM
Are you aware of how many trees had to be cut down, power lines moved, streets closed, businesses hurt because of this?
It's Los Angeles. I'd wager the crime rate along the shuttle path went down thanks to all the crews and publicity in the area.
Shuttles save lives! ;D
"Local thugs use space shuttle for record breaking drive-by shooting today."
Actually, LAPD did not arrest anybody along the entire 12 mile, 30 hour route.
Even Gang Bangers like the shuttle!
(http://17500mph.com/ForumContent/ShuttleXing.JPG)
These guys kept moving this as they closed off driveways when the Shuttle was downwind of the crossing. I so want one of those :) The municipal sign shop must be a fun place to work. :)
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Businesses in general were joining in on it.
(http://17500mph.com/ForumContent/ShuttleTundraXing.JPG)
This was just before the Tundra towing portion.
(http://17500mph.com/ForumContent/TundraEndeavour.JPG)
The Tundra only pulled it over I-405 just north of LAX.
They did that because during the planning and investigational phase, the CalTrans engineering data showed that the bridge was rated for 150 tons.
The shuttle is 145 tons.
The Sarens tug, and combined undercarriage equipment was a lot more than 5 tons.
So they pulled it from LAX on the normal dollies, and transfered the thing onto lighter dollies, that do not have any motors/drive on them, and used the Tundra.
Since Toyota is a longtime museum sponsor, they said "Hey, let us.. " so they bought the Tundra from a nearby dealer on a Sunday afternoon just like anyone walking in off the street. "We'd like a truck, please".
There is already a Tundra on display at the Science Center as part of an exhibit on machinery and engineering. They're going to replace that one with this one as "this is the one that towed the shuttle". Since the combined weight of the Tundra and the "dumb" undercarriage was a lot less than the moving equipment they used for the rest of the route.
So Toyota bought a movie shoot permit from L.A., and paid for that portion of the move themselves, in return for being able to shoot the footage for an upcoming ad campaign.
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The rest of the move was done with the self propelled machinery with the walkers and remote controls. Since they had to do it with dual dollies as the streets had center divides in many places.
When they turend from Crenshaw onto MLK, they had to place the whole thing on barrels to reconfigure the dollies underneath it to be closer together, where as on Crenshaw they were farther apart due to the median.
... so the Shuttle was up on blocks, with the wheels missing .. in L.A. ;-)
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Not everyone cared though ..
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Others ... thought it needed a little touch up..
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Are you sure they have enough?
There is actually a project called Orion that's in the works that gives us the opportunity to explore deep space. The shuttle basically became the "Fed Ex" of the space program delivering personnel and equipment to the space station. NASA hasn't given up on manned space flight...they are moving on to bigger and better things.
http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/systems/mpcv/orion_arrival.html (http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/systems/mpcv/orion_arrival.html)
Personally, I would have loved it if, instead of all the SCA flybys, if they had put a crew back in and let it loose to land by itself one last time, like they did with Enterprise back in the 70s.
In response to a2capt previous post (note: video contains some mild mature content):
Space Shuttle Rolling Through L.A. - Rollin' With Adam Carolla - O'Reilly Factor - 10-15-12 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kO4nVLoFAQ#ws)
;) :D
Quote from: JeffDG on October 16, 2012, 03:07:38 PM
Personally, I would have loved it if, instead of all the SCA flybys, if they had put a crew back in and let it loose to land by itself one last time, like they did with Enterprise back in the 70s.
The Enterprise had all of its systems installed and powered up. The Endeavour was essentially gutted. No avionics, no power, no hydraulics, no control systems. Totally non-flyable. Smithsonian Air & Space had an excellent article about what they did to make them museum ready.
Quote from: SarDragon on October 16, 2012, 08:31:27 PM
Quote from: JeffDG on October 16, 2012, 03:07:38 PM
Personally, I would have loved it if, instead of all the SCA flybys, if they had put a crew back in and let it loose to land by itself one last time, like they did with Enterprise back in the 70s.
The Enterprise had all of its systems installed and powered up. The Endeavour was essentially gutted. No avionics, no power, no hydraulics, no control systems. Totally non-flyable. Smithsonian Air & Space had an excellent article about what they did to make them museum ready.
Oh, I know it wasn't feasible...just would have been really cool!
Quote from: JeffDG on October 16, 2012, 08:39:09 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on October 16, 2012, 08:31:27 PM
Quote from: JeffDG on October 16, 2012, 03:07:38 PM
Personally, I would have loved it if, instead of all the SCA flybys, if they had put a crew back in and let it loose to land by itself one last time, like they did with Enterprise back in the 70s.
The Enterprise had all of its systems installed and powered up. The Endeavour was essentially gutted. No avionics, no power, no hydraulics, no control systems. Totally non-flyable. Smithsonian Air & Space had an excellent article about what they did to make them museum ready.
Oh, I know it wasn't feasible...just would have been really cool!
That was part of the flight test program. The Enterprise is just as stripped at Endeavour is. Matter of fact, some of Enterprise's parts ended up in Endeavour.
Initially, I thought all those photos were... tiresome. ::)
However, I have been reading, and looking at all the photos, and I can only say, BRAVO!!!
:clap:
The OP has kept us of an event related to AE and managed to make it funny. The photo of the shuttle front section on the background, with the two guys shooting baskets could be used for a funny "post a caption" contest.
Then, the graffiti on the side, the guys moving the sign "shuttle crossing..."
And the photo of the shuttle by the gas station? PRICELESS!
>:D
Thank you, OP.
Flyer
That was my intention, and that's my presentation style when I do this for a meeting.
Keeps people paying attention, thinking, and participating. It's not as easy to pull off on a forum... It's either that or 20 posts. One or two is easier. :)
(http://www.trafficmanagement.com/static/product_images/4361.jpg)
Official Traffic Sign, Endeavor "Shuttle Xing", 36" x 36" .063" Aluminum, Reflective E.G.
Original Design by Traffic Management Inc., the official Traffic Management company responsible for Mission 26 of the STS Endeavor on October 12th and 13th 2012.
Want one? :)
They're all .063 aluminum, reflective. The real deal.
12" x 12" $33.00
18" x 18" $45.50
24" x 24" $55.00
30" x 30" $77.50
36" x 36" $105.00
48" x 48" $175.00
Traffic Management, Inc. (http://www.trafficmanagement.com/store/list/7/132/) <--
Do they come signed by all crews of that shuttle?
:angel:
(Tried orange, looks awful!)
Flyer
That would be cool :) I plan on putting the thing on a wall with other space program stuff around it. I got the 36" one. Might put up some thin shelves right across the front of it above and below the writing with some Shuttle and Saturn V models and other paraphernalia/artifacts. I've got a large room in the house with a used to be FAA certified flight sim, and high ceiling. Drop down movie screen, etc. One can sit in the flight sim chair and watch a movie, with popcorn on the glare shield :)
.. or fly the flight simulator on the screen, with the room dark it's pretty cool.
a2capt, thanks for sharing :clap:
...and Endeavour was available for public display a couple weeks ago:
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(http://17500mph.com/ForumContent/DSCN4926S.jpg)
In the temporary exhibit space, at the California Science Center, Los Angeles.
(http://17500mph.com/ForumContent/DSCN4932S.jpg)
The permanent building, to be constructed nearby will feature Endeavour in Launch Configuration, with 4 viewing platforms much like one was standing on the launch pad at various levels.
(http://17500mph.com/ForumContent/DSCN4946S.jpg)
In the current display configuration, Endeavour is "floating" on a custom made platform that isolates the vehicle from the ground in the event of an earthquake, and it is positioned much like it would be when mated to the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft, allowing people to view from all angles.
Even better than the Udvar-Hazy center where Enterprise was, and Discovery is now, that can only be viewed from the perimeter.
(http://17500mph.com/ForumContent/DSCN4949S.jpg)
Also present in the Samuel Oschin Space Shuttle Endeavour Display Pavilion is the SpaceHAB module, originally envisioned and developed as a space tourist module for travel on the Shuttle Transport System, developed by private enterprise, it ended up becoming a workshop and extended living quarters when installed on 18 Shuttle missions.
Atlantis will be setup in a position similar to while in orbit, leaning to the side at a 45 degree angle, with the cargo bay doors open, and a viewing platform will allow views looking downward, into the cargo bay. Discovery and Enterprise are probably going to stay like they are now.
The only "shuttle" that the public will be able to see the inside of is the Shuttle Trainer that is now at the Seattle Museum of Flight.
As mentioned earlier, there really isn't much to see inside of these orbiters turned museum pieces now.