It has been mentioned to me by cadets that CAP does not allow the wear of distinct Cords and Berets, and that Color Guard members can only wear a white cord.
My main questions re this are:
1) is this true?
2) what are the regs on this?
I would like to gather some research on this. whereas I know the blue berets are reserved, I guess I don't quite understand why berets for specific uses such as honor guard members would not be allowed? It is not uncommon outside of CAP, fact uncommon enough that my first responce was " who told you that?", when suggesting different cords and berets.
Also, is it true Color Guard members can only wear white cords and no other colors such as AF blue or black etc.?
I guess I am just wanting to find someone who knows 100% re this matter, or could point me right to the regs?
Thank you
Color Guard wears only white cords. Other staff positions can wear other cords
http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/2012_03_12_Uniform_Manual_EDA9CCE9FE03A.pdf (http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/2012_03_12_Uniform_Manual_EDA9CCE9FE03A.pdf)
http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/M391_E6F33EAAEC28A.pdf (http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/M391_E6F33EAAEC28A.pdf)
The answer you seek is in CAPM 39-1 Table 1-3 http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/M39_1_cover_thru_chap_1.pdf (http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/M39_1_cover_thru_chap_1.pdf)
QuoteThe wing/region commander has authority to approve the following items for
wear within his/her wing: (a) Shoulder cords. Not more than one shoulder
cord will be worn at one time, and it will be worn on the left shoulder (see
Figure 5-2). Color to be determined by the wing commander, EXCEPT all
primary members of Cadet Advisory Councils will wear gold at the National
level, blue at region level, and red at wing level. (See CAPR 52-16, CAP
Cadet Program Management.) National Cadet Competition teams will wear
white shoulder cords. Honor Guardsmen will wear silver shoulder cords; (b)
scarves; (c) white gloves; (d) white and black belts; (e) helmet liners. Color to
be determined by wing commander except that helmet liners authorized for
wear by members participating in emergency services missions will be white
and will be worn with the decal depicted in Figure 6-20.
Unit NCC color guards wear white cords while part of the team.
Honor Guard Academy grads wear silver.
CAC Primary Reps wear the following:
group - green, wing - red, region - blue, Nat - gold
Any other cords have to be approved by the wings CC through an approved supplement to 39-1.
Berets may be worn by grads of NBB with field uniforms only (blue or camo), unless specified in an approved supplement to 39-1.
In regards to the berets, this is true. The only color authorized is the dark blue offered by Vanguard, and may only be worn after completion of National Blue Beret(With appropriate device) or at the authorization of the wing king. If a unit wants to wear a beret as their "Unit ballcap," this would not be acceptable.
With cords, that's a different matter. The white cord is for Color Guards and whatnot(CAPM39-1 says NCC wing winners only, but 52-16 states that squadron color guards may wear it. My unit follows the latter). There is a huge flame war regarding that aspect, so be aware. The silver cord is only for unit Honor Guards(At the discretion of the unit commander) and those who have graduated from National Honor Guard Academy. Other than that, there are Kelly Green, Scarlet, Ultramarine blue(If I'm not correct) and non-metallic gold cords that are for group-level, wing-level, region-level, and national Cadet advisory councils, respectively. Also, numerous colors/styles of cords may be authorized by the wing king for different purposes. If your squadron uses a cord to denote a staff position, that is one example. Florida has the Honor Cadet thing(No clue what it is :P ) that's of the same idea. Squadron position cords shouldn't be worn outside of the squadron, and wing cords(Florida, for example) shouldn't be worn outside of the wing.
This is all found in 39-1 and 52-16
EDIT:
Cadets are the only ones allowed to wear cords. Senior Members are not allowed cords of any sort.
Cords and Berets are lame. When I was at NCC we didnt have cords. I think they make your uniform look sloppy.
Quote from: Flying Pig on May 30, 2012, 09:31:19 PM
Cords and Berets are lame. When I was at NCC we didnt have cords. I think they make your uniform look sloppy.
If you pin your cords right, they look amazing.
Ehhhhh.... Preachin' to the choir. Worn them in CAP, JROTC and in the Marines AND in the Army....didnt like any of them. I liked what they represented, but not the cords themselves.
So I'm sure that you know firsthand on how to pin them right. ;)
Wow.....simply WOW.
Only two people have given the right answer.
While most people's answers have been partially correct.....it just points to the real uniform problem we have in CAP.
Read the regulation. It is right there in 39-1 and the ICL.....links provided in the 3rd Post.
Quote from: lordmonar on May 30, 2012, 10:16:09 PM
Wow.....simply WOW.
Only two people have given the right answer.
While most people's answers have been partially correct.....it just points to the real uniform problem we have in CAP.
Read the regulation. It is right there in 39-1 and the ICL.....links provided in the 3rd Post.
And who would those 2 people be, might I ask? :P
Quote from: Levilockling on May 30, 2012, 10:20:50 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on May 30, 2012, 10:16:09 PM
Wow.....simply WOW.
Only two people have given the right answer.
While most people's answers have been partially correct.....it just points to the real uniform problem we have in CAP.
Read the regulation. It is right there in 39-1 and the ICL.....links provided in the 3rd Post.
And who would those 2 people be, might I ask? :P
the ones who posted links and/or quoted the regulations.
Quote from: lordmonar on May 30, 2012, 10:31:30 PM
the ones who posted links and/or quoted the regulations.
I don't see anything wrong in my post...
So guess that answers the cord question.
Although should squadron be wearing white or silver? And by silver i'm sure hoping it means gray, because I've seen these cheap silver....christmas tree tibsel ones (shiney silver) and this looks too fake for my tastes. I'd rather have color guard than cheerleaders.
is there no distinct beret for honor guard? Air force used to wear them but this was a few years ago, dont know what they wear now with ABUs.
Additionally:
Is there anything that says cadet color guards cannot wear the paratrooper type boots and perhaps go fancy with white laces? This always looked good before the AF implemented the new Honor Guard inform 10 -15 years ago.
Excuse the typos......typing from a mobile phone :)
Quote from: Eclipse on May 30, 2012, 10:33:29 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on May 30, 2012, 10:31:30 PM
the ones who posted links and/or quoted the regulations.
I don't see anything wrong in my post...
I don't see anything with mine, either...
Quote from: kcbrent on May 30, 2012, 10:34:13 PM
So guess that answers the cord question.
Although should squadron be wearing white or silver? And by silver i'm sure hoping it means gray, because I've seen these cheap silver....christmas tree tibsel ones (shiney silver) and this looks too fake for my tastes. I'd rather have color guard than cheerleaders.
is there no distinct beret for honor guard? Air force used to wear them but this was a few years ago, dont know what they wear now with ABUs.
Additionally:
Is there anything that says cadet color guards cannot wear the paratrooper type boots and perhaps go fancy with white laces? This always looked good before the AF implemented the new Honor Guard inform 10 -15 years ago.
If you mean for a staff position, in regards to silver or white cords? No. 39-1 states that only Honor Guards, Color Guards, and CAC reps may wear their respective cord. You have no idea how many times I've seen a gold cord on a little C/SSgt and gotten the "It's for a squadron position" excuse.
As far as the Honor Guard beret, no. There is a prescribed honor guard uniform in 39-1, and no where does it state that you may wear a beret.
With the white laces and boots, that will depend on your wing. There is an ICL in COWG from '03 that allows such a thing, but that's for us, may not be for you.
Quote from: Eclipse on May 30, 2012, 10:33:29 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on May 30, 2012, 10:31:30 PM
the ones who posted links and/or quoted the regulations.
I don't see anything wrong in my post...
they don't have to be authorised by suplement. They only need to be authorised by wing or regional commander. Hair splitting....I know....but there you go.
Quote from: Levilockling on May 30, 2012, 09:27:26 PM
In regards to the berets, this is true. The only color authorized is the dark blue offered by Vanguard, and may only be worn after completion of National Blue Beret(With appropriate device) or at the authorization of the wing king. If a unit wants to wear a beret as their "Unit ballcap," this would not be acceptable.
That is not the only source of the Blue Beret.
QuoteWith cords, that's a different matter. The white cord is for Color Guards and whatnot(CAPM39-1 says NCC wing winners only, but 52-16 states that squadron color guards may wear it. My unit follows the latter). There is a huge flame war regarding that aspect, so be aware. The silver cord is only for unit Honor Guards(At the discretion of the unit commander) and those who have graduated from National Honor Guard Academy. Other than that, there are Kelly Green, Scarlet, Ultramarine blue(If I'm not correct) and non-metallic gold cords that are for group-level, wing-level, region-level, and national Cadet advisory councils, respectively. Also, numerous colors/styles of cords may be authorized by the wing king for different purposes. If your squadron uses a cord to denote a staff position, that is one example. Florida has the Honor Cadet thing(No clue what it is :P ) that's of the same idea. Squadron position cords shouldn't be worn outside of the squadron, and wing cords(Florida, for example) shouldn't be worn outside of the wing.
This is all found in 39-1 and 52-16
EDIT:
Cadets are the only ones allowed to wear cords. Senior Members are not allowed cords of any sort.
[/quote]
I highlighted the wrong portions of your post.
Quote from: Eclipse on May 30, 2012, 10:33:29 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on May 30, 2012, 10:31:30 PM
the ones who posted links and/or quoted the regulations.
I don't see anything wrong in my post...
I guess you got points off for not citing the specific regulations......It seemed responsive enough to me, especially since this question has been addressed about 20,00 times in the last few years. I have always hated the term "cord" or "ropes". They are
Aguillete or
FourragereMajor Lord
Quote from: lordmonar on May 30, 2012, 10:47:25 PM
Quote from: Levilockling on May 30, 2012, 09:27:26 PM
In regards to the berets, this is true. The only color authorized is the dark blue offered by Vanguard, and may only be worn after completion of National Blue Beret(With appropriate device) or at the authorization of the wing king. If a unit wants to wear a beret as their "Unit ballcap," this would not be acceptable.
That is not the only source of the Blue Beret.
QuoteWith cords, that's a different matter. The white cord is for Color Guards and whatnot(CAPM39-1 says NCC wing winners only, but 52-16 states that squadron color guards may wear it. My unit follows the latter). There is a huge flame war regarding that aspect, so be aware. The silver cord is only for unit Honor Guards(At the discretion of the unit commander) and those who have graduated from National Honor Guard Academy. Other than that, there are Kelly Green, Scarlet, Ultramarine blue(If I'm not correct) and non-metallic gold cords that are for group-level, wing-level, region-level, and national Cadet advisory councils, respectively. Also, numerous colors/styles of cords may be authorized by the wing king for different purposes. If your squadron uses a cord to denote a staff position, that is one example. Florida has the Honor Cadet thing(No clue what it is :P ) that's of the same idea. Squadron position cords shouldn't be worn outside of the squadron, and wing cords(Florida, for example) shouldn't be worn outside of the wing.
This is all found in 39-1 and 52-16
EDIT:
Cadets are the only ones allowed to wear cords. Senior Members are not allowed cords of any sort.
I highlighted the wrong portions of your post.
[/quote]
I'm just gonna take that in stride, and say "Oh well." My statement in regards to squadron/wing cords was only an opinion, anyhow.
But might I ask how else one can get the Blue Beret, other than completion of NBB? Because if you're talking about the ability for wing commanders to authorize it, then I already included that.
Quote from: Eclipse on May 30, 2012, 10:33:29 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on May 30, 2012, 10:31:30 PM
the ones who posted links and/or quoted the regulations.
I don't see anything wrong in my post...
Nor mine, it was simply vague.
Quote from: NY Wing King on May 30, 2012, 10:56:12 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on May 30, 2012, 10:33:29 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on May 30, 2012, 10:31:30 PM
the ones who posted links and/or quoted the regulations.
I don't see anything wrong in my post...
Nor mine, it was simply vague.
I'm gonna have to be with Lord Monar on this one. Yours wasn't just vague, but it was
very vague.
For an example on Wing Commanders being able to add a supplement; in NH Wing is authorised to wear red and white aguellettes for NCOA.
My only concern with citing things in 39-1 is that it is so outdated who knows what is correct and what isn't :) I can show you several examples where the uniform has changed 5 times (i.e. Blue field unform).
So.....is the Color Guard specs in there now, accurate?
CAPM 39-1 mentions nothing about a white cord for color guards, only for color guard teams at NCC. However, as I stated earlier, 52-16 states that squadron color guards may wear the white cord. It's up to the commander to follow whatever one he wants, since there is a contradiction. Also, you may look at the supplement for your wing. COWG allows for white ladder lacing on combat boots for color guards, but someone from another wing would be perplexed.
Now what about bibes (be it white bibs for example) can CAP CG wear bibs? Or its this under approval of WG add well?
Quote from: kcbrent on May 30, 2012, 11:48:13 PM
Now what about bibes (be it white bibs for example) can CAP CG wear bibs? Or its this under approval of WG add well?
Only Honor Guards (assuming you're asking about what I think you're asking).
(http://www.txwgcap.org/content/0610/HG_dscf0008_9.jpg)
Quote from: Levilockling on May 30, 2012, 11:41:13 PM
COWG allows for white ladder lacing on combat boots for color guards, but someone from another wing would be perplexed.
Where did you find that authorization?
I do see in the earlier posts to this topic re 39-1 and 52 that it does list "Scarves", I have always known them to be called "Bibs" and maybe that was jusst a nickname (since it looks like a bib) and the true name may very well be scarves? is my assumption correct?
Honor Guardsmen will wear silver shoulder cords; (b)
scarves; (c) white gloves; (d) white and black belts; (e) helmet liners.
Quote from: kcbrent on May 31, 2012, 01:20:43 AM
I do see in the earlier posts to this topic re 39-1 and 52 that it does list "Scarves", I have always known them to be called "Bibs" and maybe that was jusst a nickname (since it looks like a bib) and the true name may very well be scarves? is my assumption correct?
Honor Guardsmen will wear silver shoulder cords; (b)
scarves; (c) white gloves; (d) white and black belts; (e) helmet liners.
Why don't you tell us what your unit has, and we can go from there? You can't just dress up a Color Guard as an Honor Guard and call it a day. There are differences outside of appearance on those two.
Quote from: kcbrent on May 31, 2012, 01:20:43 AM
I do see in the earlier posts to this topic re 39-1 and 52 that it does list "Scarves", I have always known them to be called "Bibs" and maybe that was jusst a nickname (since it looks like a bib) and the true name may very well be scarves? is my assumption correct?
Honor Guardsmen will wear silver shoulder cords; (b)
scarves; (c) white gloves; (d) white and black belts; (e) helmet liners.
They are actually called ascots and worn by Honor Guardsmen NOT Color Guards.
Color Guards wear ascots as well, just without the HG patch.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on May 31, 2012, 01:37:38 AM
Color Guards wear ascots as well, just without the HG patch.
Cite?
Quote from: usafaux2004 on May 31, 2012, 01:37:38 AM
Color Guards wear ascots as well, just without the HG patch.
I cannot find any citation that can support this statement. Please provide such.
In the 52-4 for color guard uniform it lists the following;
Manual.
b. The authorized uniform for male cadets is the short-sleeve blue shirt (with epaulets) and blue
trousers. The authorized uniform for female cadets is the short-sleeve blue blouse (with epaulets) and
blue slacks or skirt.
c. Ties and Tie Tabs will not be worn. Ribbons will be worn. Taps on shoes are not authorized.
d. Color guards will wear the uniform/accessories listed below. All items are found in either the
Vanguard catalog or any parade accessory catalog. No other items are authorized.
Gloves, Pistol belt, Shoulder cord, Rifle, Flag sling
Honor Guards do not use helmet liners or white and black belts. Their uniform is as follows;
CAPM 39-1 23 MARCH 2005 67
CHAPTER 3 – CIVIL AIR PATROL HONOR GUARD UNIFORM
3-1. General. This chapter prescribes the standardized uniform worn by Civil Air Patrol honor guards.
This uniform is approved for wear during honor guard duties and performances only. Only those items
described in this chapter may be worn. Items such as blue ascots with BDU, boots with the service dress
uniform, swords, "Smokie Bear" hats, etc., are not permitted. National Cadet Competition drill teams,
color guards, or other CAP special teams will not wear this uniform. The honor guard uniform consists
of the service dress uniform coat with epaulets and slacks/trousers, male service cap with cadet officer
cap device, white ascot with Honor Guard patch, metallic silver shoulder cord, white pistol belt, white
gloves, and a brown non-operating parade rifle with white leather sling. Helmets or helmet liners will
not be used. Either the old or new style of service dress may be worn; however, all members of an
honor guard should be in the same style, if possible. Bayonets, swords, or sabers will not be used under
any circumstances. This uniform is authorized for year-round wear. The colors element flag bearers
will wear white flag slings instead of white pistol belts. The guards will wear pistol belts. See Table 3-1
for specific uniform requirements.
3-2. Wear Instructions and Grooming Standards. Since this uniform is a specialized uniform worn
in a specific way, wearing instructions and grooming standards are included in this chapter. Honor
guard members may find it beneficial to have two service dress uniforms, one for everyday CAP wear
and one for honor guard performances, and two pair of low quarter shoes, one pair with the Honor
Guard taps and one without. See Table 3-2 for specific wear and grooming instructions.
3-3. Use of Air Force Honor Guard Uniforms or Equipment. The use of Air Force Honor Guard
uniforms or equipment is prohibited. This includes base honor guards, The Air Force Honor Guard
(based at Bolling AFB, DC), and USAF Honor Guard uniforms purchased or procured by any means.
http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/M39_1_chap_3.pdf (http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/M39_1_chap_3.pdf)
Quote from: arajca on May 31, 2012, 12:32:15 AM
Quote from: Levilockling on May 30, 2012, 11:41:13 PM
COWG allows for white ladder lacing on combat boots for color guards, but someone from another wing would be perplexed.
Where did you find that authorization?
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library/reg-man/39-1sup_co030501.pdf (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library/reg-man/39-1sup_co030501.pdf)
It's rather old, but it's the newest one for COWG, so it's still viable. Unless anything's been put out for COWG recently, this is as updated as it gets. A few parts get defeated by the newest ICL of 39-1, though.
Quote from: Levilockling on May 31, 2012, 02:39:09 AM
Quote from: arajca on May 31, 2012, 12:32:15 AM
Quote from: Levilockling on May 30, 2012, 11:41:13 PM
COWG allows for white ladder lacing on combat boots for color guards, but someone from another wing would be perplexed.
Where did you find that authorization?
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library/reg-man/39-1sup_co030501.pdf (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library/reg-man/39-1sup_co030501.pdf)
It's rather old, but it's the newest one for COWG, so it's still viable. Unless anything's been put out for COWG recently, this is as updated as it gets. A few parts get defeated by the newest ICL of 39-1, though.
That's not how supplements and OI's work.
They have to be re-validated whenever there is a new Commander (at the respective level), or a revision to the respective regulation.
That may well be the guidance COWG members are living with, but it is no longer enforceable as a supplement.
Quote from: Eclipse on May 31, 2012, 02:46:44 AM
Quote from: Levilockling on May 31, 2012, 02:39:09 AM
Quote from: arajca on May 31, 2012, 12:32:15 AM
Quote from: Levilockling on May 30, 2012, 11:41:13 PM
COWG allows for white ladder lacing on combat boots for color guards, but someone from another wing would be perplexed.
Where did you find that authorization?
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library/reg-man/39-1sup_co030501.pdf (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library/reg-man/39-1sup_co030501.pdf)
It's rather old, but it's the newest one for COWG, so it's still viable. Unless anything's been put out for COWG recently, this is as updated as it gets. A few parts get defeated by the newest ICL of 39-1, though.
That's not how supplements and OI's work.
They have to be re-validated whenever there is a new Commander (at the respective level), or a revision to the respective regulation.
That may well be the guidance COWG members are living with, but it is no longer enforceable as a supplement.
...My life's now a lie... :o
Well now, I gotta go figure out my life now... :P
Guess we all learn something new every day! ;D
The best way to find the approved supplements to manuals and regs is to check the wing website.
There are no supplements or wing directives concerning CAPM 39-1 currently listed.
Quote from: kcbrent on May 30, 2012, 11:34:35 PM
My only concern with citing things in 39-1 is that it is so outdated who knows what is correct and what isn't :) I can show you several examples where the uniform has changed 5 times (i.e. Blue field unform).
So.....is the Color Guard specs in there now, accurate?
That's what your chain of command is for.....and not us Yahoos on CAPTALK.
Read the reg and follow your chain of command's directions.
End of story.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on May 31, 2012, 02:01:35 AM
Quote from: usafaux2004 on May 31, 2012, 01:37:38 AM
Color Guards wear ascots as well, just without the HG patch.
Cite?
My squadron commander told us to.
That is a cite.
:)
Quote from: Eclipse on May 31, 2012, 02:46:44 AM
Quote from: Levilockling on May 31, 2012, 02:39:09 AM
Quote from: arajca on May 31, 2012, 12:32:15 AM
Quote from: Levilockling on May 30, 2012, 11:41:13 PM
COWG allows for white ladder lacing on combat boots for color guards, but someone from another wing would be perplexed.
Where did you find that authorization?
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library/reg-man/39-1sup_co030501.pdf (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library/reg-man/39-1sup_co030501.pdf)
It's rather old, but it's the newest one for COWG, so it's still viable. Unless anything's been put out for COWG recently, this is as updated as it gets. A few parts get defeated by the newest ICL of 39-1, though.
That's not how supplements and OI's work.
They have to be re-validated whenever there is a new Commander (at the respective level), or a revision to the respective regulation.
That may well be the guidance COWG members are living with, but it is no longer enforceable as a supplement.
Well...that's debatable. OI's and SUPs are supposed to be revalidated....however.....just because a new reg comes out....does not automatically make th eOI or Sup invalid. It is gray are........and before you pull the baracks lawyering on me and hair splitting......ICLs are only supposed to be valid for what........6 months.....but it this case....I concede your point.
Quote from: lordmonar on May 31, 2012, 04:31:00 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on May 31, 2012, 02:46:44 AM
Quote from: Levilockling on May 31, 2012, 02:39:09 AM
Quote from: arajca on May 31, 2012, 12:32:15 AM
Quote from: Levilockling on May 30, 2012, 11:41:13 PM
COWG allows for white ladder lacing on combat boots for color guards, but someone from another wing would be perplexed.
Where did you find that authorization?
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library/reg-man/39-1sup_co030501.pdf (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library/reg-man/39-1sup_co030501.pdf)
It's rather old, but it's the newest one for COWG, so it's still viable. Unless anything's been put out for COWG recently, this is as updated as it gets. A few parts get defeated by the newest ICL of 39-1, though.
That's not how supplements and OI's work.
They have to be re-validated whenever there is a new Commander (at the respective level), or a revision to the respective regulation.
That may well be the guidance COWG members are living with, but it is no longer enforceable as a supplement.
Well...that's debatable. OI's and SUPs are supposed to be revalidated....however.....just because a new reg comes out....does not automatically make th eOI or Sup invalid. It is gray are........and before you pull the baracks lawyering on me and hair splitting......ICLs are only supposed to be valid for what........6 months.....but it this case....I concede your point.
Regarding the automatic invalidation of supplement, etc. Ref CAPR 5-4, Sect. 3, Para a. 1)
QuoteWhen the parent publication of a supplement or OI is revised/reissued, commanders must ensure the supplement or OI is revised and re-approved, if required, or rescinded with 6 months of the new parent publication's issue. Publications will not conflict with higher headquarters directives.
Removing it from the wing's official list of supplements is rescinding, as it is no longer officially available to the members.
Wow, talk about a brain fart...
Last time I post from Financial Statement Analysis. Then again, today was the last class. :)
Quote from: arajca on May 31, 2012, 04:49:04 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on May 31, 2012, 04:31:00 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on May 31, 2012, 02:46:44 AM
Quote from: Levilockling on May 31, 2012, 02:39:09 AM
Quote from: arajca on May 31, 2012, 12:32:15 AM
Quote from: Levilockling on May 30, 2012, 11:41:13 PM
COWG allows for white ladder lacing on combat boots for color guards, but someone from another wing would be perplexed.
Where did you find that authorization?
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library/reg-man/39-1sup_co030501.pdf (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library/reg-man/39-1sup_co030501.pdf)
It's rather old, but it's the newest one for COWG, so it's still viable. Unless anything's been put out for COWG recently, this is as updated as it gets. A few parts get defeated by the newest ICL of 39-1, though.
That's not how supplements and OI's work.
They have to be re-validated whenever there is a new Commander (at the respective level), or a revision to the respective regulation.
That may well be the guidance COWG members are living with, but it is no longer enforceable as a supplement.
Well...that's debatable. OI's and SUPs are supposed to be revalidated....however.....just because a new reg comes out....does not automatically make th eOI or Sup invalid. It is gray are........and before you pull the baracks lawyering on me and hair splitting......ICLs are only supposed to be valid for what........6 months.....but it this case....I concede your point.
Regarding the automatic invalidation of supplement, etc. Ref CAPR 5-4, Sect. 3, Para a. 1)
QuoteWhen the parent publication of a supplement or OI is revised/reissued, commanders must ensure the supplement or OI is revised and re-approved, if required, or rescinded with 6 months of the new parent publication's issue. Publications will not conflict with higher headquarters directives.
Removing it from the wing's official list of supplements is rescinding, as it is no longer officially available to the members.
My point is/was....that reality sometimes exists outside what the regs on regs say. ICLs for example....and yes all IO and SUP should be reviewed and updated when a new pub is issued....but many units don't (and I am talking AD USAF too)!
Heck....I recall when AFCC went away......we followed regulations from a command that did no exist for two years....before our new owners got around to writing regs that covered comm units.
Quote from: lordmonar on May 31, 2012, 04:24:55 AM
Quote from: kcbrent on May 30, 2012, 11:34:35 PM
My only concern with citing things in 39-1 is that it is so outdated who knows what is correct and what isn't :) I can show you several examples where the uniform has changed 5 times (i.e. Blue field unform).
So.....is the Color Guard specs in there now, accurate?
That's what your chain of command is for.....and not us Yahoos on CAPTALK.
Read the reg and follow your chain of command's directions.
End of story.
Chain of command won't answer this because I never can find anyone on WG level to answer their emails, that's why I talk to you yahoos on captalk :)
Quote from: kcbrent on May 31, 2012, 05:18:27 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on May 31, 2012, 04:24:55 AM
Quote from: kcbrent on May 30, 2012, 11:34:35 PM
My only concern with citing things in 39-1 is that it is so outdated who knows what is correct and what isn't :) I can show you several examples where the uniform has changed 5 times (i.e. Blue field unform).
So.....is the Color Guard specs in there now, accurate?
That's what your chain of command is for.....and not us Yahoos on CAPTALK.
Read the reg and follow your chain of command's directions.
End of story.
Chain of command won't answer this because I never can find anyone on WG level to answer their emails, that's why I talk to you yahoos on captalk :)
You usually aren't supposed to. That is what the unit commander is for.
So if Color Guard and Honor Guard are different, and one can wear bibs and other can't....then what does CAP define as the role of a CG and HG?
My understanding is these are i've in the same?
They are not.
Color Guards, in a nutshell, post and carry the colors.
Honor Guards have a much stricter code of uniform, movements, and do things like stand watch on funerals, the honor table at dinners,
ceremonial drill, etc.
Quote from: RogueLeader on May 31, 2012, 05:21:47 PM
Quote from: kcbrent on May 31, 2012, 05:18:27 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on May 31, 2012, 04:24:55 AM
Quote from: kcbrent on May 30, 2012, 11:34:35 PM
My only concern with citing things in 39-1 is that it is so outdated who knows what is correct and what isn't :) I can show you several examples where the uniform has changed 5 times (i.e. Blue field unform).
So.....is the Color Guard specs in there now, accurate?
That's what your chain of command is for.....and not us Yahoos on CAPTALK.
Read the reg and follow your chain of command's directions.
End of story.
Chain of command won't answer this because I never can find anyone on WG level to answer their emails, that's why I talk to you yahoos on captalk :)
You usually aren't supposed to. That is what the unit commander is for.
that is the next lvl in CoC above the unit, but anyways, not worth fighting over, i'm just trying to Get sone answers and learn.
Quote from: Eclipse on May 31, 2012, 05:28:52 PM
They are not.
Color Guards, in a nutshell, post and carry the colors.
Honor Guards have a much stricter code of uniform, movements, and do things like stand watch on funerals, the honor table at dinners,
ceremonial drill, etc.
Well my CG used to do all of that.combined so...tomAto tomOHto.
Quote from: kcbrent on May 31, 2012, 05:32:44 PM
Quote from: RogueLeader on May 31, 2012, 05:21:47 PM
Quote from: kcbrent on May 31, 2012, 05:18:27 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on May 31, 2012, 04:24:55 AM
Quote from: kcbrent on May 30, 2012, 11:34:35 PM
My only concern with citing things in 39-1 is that it is so outdated who knows what is correct and what isn't :) I can show you several examples where the uniform has changed 5 times (i.e. Blue field unform).
So.....is the Color Guard specs in there now, accurate?
That's what your chain of command is for.....and not us Yahoos on CAPTALK.
Read the reg and follow your chain of command's directions.
End of story.
Chain of command won't answer this because I never can find anyone on WG level to answer their emails, that's why I talk to you yahoos on captalk :)
You usually aren't supposed to. That is what the unit commander is for.
that is the next lvl in CoC above the unit, but anyways, not worth fighting over, i'm just trying to Get sone answers and learn.
I understand that you want to learn, just let them do their job, and do yours.
Quote from: kcbrent on May 31, 2012, 05:33:43 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on May 31, 2012, 05:28:52 PM
They are not.
Color Guards, in a nutshell, post and carry the colors.
Honor Guards have a much stricter code of uniform, movements, and do things like stand watch on funerals, the honor table at dinners,
ceremonial drill, etc.
Well my CG used to do all of that.combined so...tomAto tomOHto.
Well now you know that it was wrong, and you can fix it.
Quote from: kcbrent on May 31, 2012, 05:18:27 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on May 31, 2012, 04:24:55 AM
Quote from: kcbrent on May 30, 2012, 11:34:35 PM
My only concern with citing things in 39-1 is that it is so outdated who knows what is correct and what isn't :) I can show you several examples where the uniform has changed 5 times (i.e. Blue field unform).
So.....is the Color Guard specs in there now, accurate?
That's what your chain of command is for.....and not us Yahoos on CAPTALK.
Read the reg and follow your chain of command's directions.
End of story.
Chain of command won't answer this because I never can find anyone on WG level to answer their emails, that's why I talk to you yahoos on captalk :)
Then do what you think best. If you make a good faith effort to comply an/or get clarification.....that's all I expect of any leader.
Rough day rogue :) ?
Thanks everyone,
I believe I have all the answers i'm looking for. I appreciate the help.