Just a few...
(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/9444/asnpideasallinone365951.jpg)
A new (old) uniform topic! Great!
No. More. Uniform. Changes.
If a uniform must be changed, it should be for a reason, such as availability (BDU going away), safety, etc.
And I would streamline that even further.
Not unless the item becomes not available, or cost prohibitive.
The first couple are kinda cool, the rest have superfluous insignia.
Cloth nameplates can be kinda spendy though, I've seen them as high as $20 per piece. Optional? Fine. Mandatory? No way.
Why?
Good points all. Especially the ones about financial restraints.
Perhaps in a better time?
Quote from: CCSE on May 09, 2010, 06:09:07 AM
Good points all. Especially the ones about financial restraints.
Perhaps in a better time?
/me sighs,
I think... you should LAY OFF nobody wants anymore uniform changes, they just want a BETTER EFFECTIVE uniform (if we already have it).
Just some ideas.
(A picture with lots of colorful designs on it, basically)
Nothing more than that. I say again:
A picture with lots of colorful designs on it.
(And nothing more)
Sheesh... ::)
Well, they are colorful. I guess that we can just leave it here for archeologists to try to figure out some day. They will be puzzled by our mysterious organizational culture.
* digging out nomex undies*
First and foremost - wearing the cloth ASNP is OPTIONAL. The black leather would remain authorized.
Apply some rhyme and reason:
Each region is assigned a border color
Each wing within that region is assigned the background color
National gets the gold border.
Say RMR gets silver.
CO gets red background
UT gets green
WY gets black
MT gets blue
ID gets yellow
etc.
I gots my 39-1 coloring book, and I'm staying within the lines.
Great...more uniformity. >:(
Quote from: CCSE on May 09, 2010, 01:59:35 AM
Just a few...
(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/9444/asnpideasallinone365951.jpg)
You're trying to do too much with this... no need to put too much on these tags.
Mine's just a simple ultramarine blue with silver border and wings, and my name underneath. No need to put grade or "CAP" on it, since the patch and rank are already within 14 inches of it. No need for all the embellishment, especially when some of the detail would not be reproducible anyway.
Why are non-members telling us what we should do with our uniforms??? ???
Quote from: shorning on May 14, 2010, 02:23:21 AM
Why are non-members telling us what we should do with our uniforms??? ???
The members can't come to a consensus, so what does it matter?
:clap:
Quote from: jimmydeanno on May 14, 2010, 02:26:51 AM
The members can't come to a consensus, so what does it matter?
Ah...apathy...
ASNP?
Refresh me here. Which garment are CAP members allowed to wear this on? I thought these were AF only?
Take your pick:
ASNP Aircrew Style Name Patch (USAF Pilot, Navigator, and ABM Name Patch)
ASNP Army Student Nurse Program
ASNP Abstract Syntax Notation Production
Quote from: shorning on May 14, 2010, 03:07:58 AM
Quote from: jimmydeanno on May 14, 2010, 02:26:51 AM
The members can't come to a consensus, so what does it matter?
Ah...apathy...
Or more important things to do with our time - like watching ink dry...
Quote from: CCSE on May 14, 2010, 02:51:06 AM
:clap:
We've been down this road before with you. I'll remind you:
Quote from: CCSE on June 07, 2008, 08:42:29 PM
Out of this respect and high regard, I will stop being fixated on CAPTalk (and other such sites), and start moving on with my life.
Therefore, I will not contribute to CAPTalk until I return to service in CAP.
Don't remember that? Review your PMs...
I much prefer watching cotton shrink. >:D
Quote from: shorning on May 14, 2010, 03:19:12 AM
Quote from: CCSE on May 14, 2010, 02:51:06 AM
:clap:
We've been down this road before with you. I'll remind you:
Quote from: CCSE on June 07, 2008, 08:42:29 PM
Out of this respect and high regard, I will stop being fixated on CAPTalk (and other such sites), and start moving on with my life.
Therefore, I will not contribute to CAPTalk until I return to service in CAP.
Don't remember that? Review your PMs...
I lied.
Bad memory, but that's no excuse.
Frankly Sir, I now have even
more of a reason to get back in.
And just for the record: I have nothing against you Lt Col (Col?) Horning. Never did in the first place.
If you'd like to take me to town, then please by all means send a PM, Sir.
Thank You Kindly.
Quote from: CCSE on May 14, 2010, 06:42:39 AM
If you'd like to take me to town, then please by all means send a PM, Sir.
No.
Quote from: CCSE on May 14, 2010, 06:42:39 AM
I lied.
That says it all... :clap:
Quote from: arajca on May 13, 2010, 08:48:29 PM
* digging out nomex undies*
First and foremost - wearing the cloth ASNP is OPTIONAL. The black leather would remain authorized.
Apply some rhyme and reason:
Each region is assigned a border color
Each wing within that region is assigned the background color
National gets the gold border.
Say RMR gets silver.
CO gets red background
UT gets green
WY gets black
MT gets blue
ID gets yellow
etc.
How 'bout leaving it up to squadrons to choose their own colors and designs -- you know, like how the AIR FORCE does it? In the AF, nametag colors are generally the dominant colors from a unit's official patch. No reason to be heavy-handed over this and force sucky pre-approved designs/colors down everyone's throat, though I know most NB'ers and NHQ won't be able to resist.
Then there's the whole "how can this be rigged so that CAP gets money from every nametag made"/Vanguard exclusive supplier issue...
They should create a game where you command your own wing, create uniforms, get elected to the NB, AND CONDUCT SAR...CAP KOMMAND ;D
If this were to happen, wouldn't it be simpler and more uniform (that's what this is, right?) to make it similar to the red-white-blue of the command patch for
all members? If you want a variation, I'd stick with it differing at the wing level.
Compared to the Air Force, we're a small organization to begin with. The amount of people in CAP that wear flight suits, compared to the number in the Air Force that wear 'em is quite different. By allowing our squadron-level units to make their own, it would just get way, way out of hand, IMO.
Quote from: Strick on May 14, 2010, 03:09:26 PM
They should create a game where you command your own wing, create uniforms, get elected to the NB, AND CONDUCT SAR...CAP KOMMAND ;D
Can I get a third star, instead of only two?!
OK, I like the first two, but I would rather we do away with the plastic rank insignia. This new stuff from Vanguard just doesn't cut it anymore.
What's the chances of using the same cloth rank insignia from the blue flight suits on the green ones...or how about colored rank on sage green like the Air Force used to use?
Quote from: flyboy1 on May 14, 2010, 10:17:31 PM
OK, I like the first two, but I would rather we do away with the plastic rank insignia. This new stuff from Vanguard just doesn't cut it anymore.
What's the chances of using the same cloth rank insignia from the blue flight suits on the green ones...or how about colored rank on sage green like the Air Force used to use?
Your best bet is to wish in one hand, doody in the other, and you'll see which one fills up first.
I must have missed something. Has there been a revision to 39-1, or an ICL. Last I checked, leather was the only authorized aircrew nameplate for flightsuits, cloth was a non-starter. If I'm right, why are we having this discussion? If I'm wrong, can someone please cite a reg or ICL?
Quote from: PhotogPilot on May 16, 2010, 05:28:15 AM
I must have missed something. Has there been a revision to 39-1, or an ICL. Last I checked, leather was the only authorized aircrew nameplate for flightsuits, cloth was a non-starter. If I'm right, why are we having this discussion? If I'm wrong, can someone please cite a reg or ICL?
As the name of the thread suggests, they're only ideas. Why are we having this discussion? Welcome to the CAPTalk Uniform Section.
You know,
I am glad the problem solvers here outnumber the nit-pickers 3:1. This brings me comfort. Thank You.
Now then...
Would CAP/USAF ever approve any of the designs I've proposed?
IIRC, efforts were made to find one ASNP for everyone to wear... But no team at National reached a consensus, as to which one would be used.
RUMINT has it, that CAP/USAF would be fine with one design for all members... so long as it's distinctive enough.
But I'm not sure of that. Anyone know?
Quote from: CCSE on May 16, 2010, 05:46:30 AM
Would CAP/USAF ever approve any of the designs I've proposed?
I don't know about CAP/USAF's thoughts, but I woudn't care for any of them (no offense to the designs). But with their added logos or seals, I would assume it would make the prices skyrocket for members (and as someone pointed out previously, it wouldn't look right, as it would be too small). I'd stick with either (1) a single color scheme for all of CAP (most likely based off of the red-white-blue of the MAJCOM) or (2) let wings have their own colors, most likely based off of their wing patches.
YMMV. JMO.
Quote from: shorning on May 14, 2010, 02:23:21 AM
Why are non-members telling us what we should do with our uniforms??? ???
I would PM you colonel, but that function's been disabled.
Look: I'm 24 years old; have almost died 3 times; have a medical file 5 times as thick as the old cadet one; I've got ulcerative colitis, seasonal affective disorder, cyclothymia, dysthimia, and a touch of bipolar in addition.
And I've been to the West Bank (Bethlehem), with nothing more than a pen, pad of paper, and some friends just as scared as me. That's right Sir: No kevlar, no ballistic helmet, no body armor... And certainly no weapon.
We've both seen the face of our enemy, and can agree it is evil. So why on earth are you attacking me publicly, Sir?
As stated before... Please attack me via PM, not out in the open. Remember praise in public, criticize in private?
Now, back to the topic...
I presented these designs with a neutral stance. I just want to learn what others think about them, and inspire folks to run with them and edit as appropriate. (The ASNP designs are yours to keep, by the way). Perhaps someone with more creativity can make them look better than I have.
Regarding the production of said designs, and budgetary restraints... I didn't say they should be approved right away, or ever. Just simply posted them, with a neutral stance.
I'd prefer to see something like this:
[smg id=165]
Quote from: Mustang on May 16, 2010, 08:34:36 AM
I'd prefer to see something like this:
[smg id=165]
Thats pretty kool. No joke.
Quote from: CCSE on May 16, 2010, 07:10:51 AM
Uh, Mods... What started as a double post became a triple one in less than 2 minutes. It seems as though the 'Modify Post' function is spazzing out.
Any idea why? This is the first time that's happened to me.
Because you clicked on Quote, instead of Modify. It's not that hard to figure out.
Thank You kindly.
Quote from: Fuzzy on May 16, 2010, 11:03:24 AM
Quote from: Mustang on May 16, 2010, 08:34:36 AM
I'd prefer to see something like this:
[smg id=165]
Thats pretty kool. No joke.
Seconded. It looks good, and kind of AF-ish, but couldn't be mistaken for anything but CAP.
*Takes deep breath*
Thanks all for helping me stay on track; I digress too much... Gotta work on that...
Anywho...
Okay. Well, CAP-USAF would probably never approve of CAP squadrons having their own colors on ASNPs.
Why?
Because it looks to much like the ones they wear.
Methinks it is safe to hypothesize that --if this idea ever comes to fruition-- everyone will wear the same basic design.
(Which, I believe, should be in the same colors as CAP aircraft).
Thirds to the new design, too!
Now lets work to get rid of the plastic rank!!
I like it...
As for PER...Bright on Sage...Looks exactly like the PER without the shine.
Quote from: Mustang on May 16, 2010, 08:34:36 AM
I'd prefer to see something like this:
[smg id=165]
Doesn't look different from mine, except for a silver border and no plane.
If we go with cloth, what's so wrong with silver-gray on ultramarine blue? Our wings are distinctive enough not to be confused.
And as for shoulder grade: Kill the plastic encased. It's more trouble than it's worth. We can use full-color on blue, and it's different enough from Big Blue's subdued cloth.
+1 on every point made!
Especially on the plastic encased rank insignia!
I have absolutely no clue why the AF still requires plastic encased rank on the flight suit. Really dumb, if you ask me. And counter-intuitive also.
The ultramarine cloth rank insignia --as is worn on the BDU-- is 1,000,000 times more distinctive than the little plastic rank thingys. Especially for an olive drab flight suit.
Ultramarine cloth insignia on the flight suit, would be keeping in both spirit and letter of CAP-USAF's regulations, concerning proper dress and appearance of CAP personnel.
It's these kind of decisions that make me want to knock on the 'upstairs room door' and say, "Hello... is anybody home?"
And to make sure we stay on topic... The ultramarine rank insignias would compliment CAP-specific ASNP's, especially if they have the same background color...
Quote from: CAPM 39-1Green Flight Suit/Jacket
2. Leather Name Patch: Will include name, grade, and aeronautical rating. Patch will be centered on left breast above pocket. Cloth name patch is not authorized. If no aeronautical rating, a title such as "Mission Scanner" may be used.
Blue Flight Suit/Jacket
2. Leather Name Patch: Will include name, grade, and aeronautical rating. Patch will be centered on left breast above pocket. Cloth name patch is not authorized.
[emphasis mine]
Given the above information, why are we even having this discussion?
Because the concept was approved by the National Board a few years ago. Rumor has it a certain somebody has just been sitting on the implementation because they don't care for the idea personally. That certain somebody can't stonewall forever.
Quote from: Mustang on May 16, 2010, 08:34:36 AM
I'd prefer to see something like this:
[smg id=165]
I like that design. It's simple; the aircraft is representative of what our organization possesses and operates. It doesn't duplicate anything else represented on the uniform. The colors are appropriate. Add rank before the name on a single line for NCOs, and it's good.
Quote from: SarDragon on May 19, 2010, 05:09:41 AM
Quote from: CAPM 39-1Green Flight Suit/Jacket
2. Leather Name Patch: Will include name, grade, and aeronautical rating. Patch will be centered on left breast above pocket. Cloth name patch is not authorized. If no aeronautical rating, a title such as “Mission Scanner” may be used.
Blue Flight Suit/Jacket
2. Leather Name Patch: Will include name, grade, and aeronautical rating. Patch will be centered on left breast above pocket. Cloth name patch is not authorized.
[emphasis mine]
Given the above information, why are we even having this discussion?
It's an idea, a proposal, a consideration. Just because it's not legal now, doesn't mean it can't be suggested, proposed, or discussed.
Quote from: Mustang on May 19, 2010, 04:59:03 PM
Because the concept was approved by the National Board a few years ago. Rumor has it a certain somebody has just been sitting on the implementation because they don't care for the idea personally. That certain somebody can't stonewall forever.
Heard the rumor as well. Anything held up has a certain "Stopping Point".
Quote from: Mustang on May 19, 2010, 04:59:03 PM
Because the concept was approved by the National Board a few years ago. Rumor has it a certain somebody has just been sitting on the implementation because they don't care for the idea personally. That certain somebody can't stonewall forever.
Been a little while but is there any chance the implementation is closer to reality? How about outing the stopping point so said individual can be "encouraged" to answer to the membership and finally put the issue to rest.
Probably never going to happen.
Consider that a cloth ASNP with a blue backgroud could justify using cloth rank insignia with the same blue backgroud. It's too logical for the CAP and Vanguard.
Quote from: blackrain on July 04, 2010, 03:35:40 PMBeen a little while but is there any chance the implementation is closer to reality? How about outing the stopping point so said individual can be "encouraged" to answer to the membership and finally put the issue to rest.
I gave you a clue with "Stopping Point." Translate the first letters with initials.
Quote from: flyboy1 on July 04, 2010, 05:28:05 PMConsider that a cloth ASNP with a blue backgroud could justify using cloth rank insignia with the same blue backgroud. It's too logical for the CAP and Vanguard.
I've seen blue background rank on sage green suits before, it doesn't look right for some reason. Doesn't matter if it's ultramarine or navy, it just doesn't seem to work.
"Vivid" color on sage would work, would be complementary to the suit color, and would be distinctive without being shockingly different. And it could be done very easily.
Vanguard could make plenty off cloth nameplates, but for them there would be risk of people acquiring from other sources. Sometimes, I think that this is why the "CAP" is maintained on the flightsuit nameplate. As long as it says "CAP" anywhere on it, the only approved source is Vanguard.
Quote from: Hawk200 on July 04, 2010, 06:35:48 PM
"Vivid" color on sage would work, would be complementary to the suit color, and would be distinctive without being shockingly different. And it could be done very easily.
Vivid color on sage is worn today by the Navy, and CAP with the distinctive flight and jump suits.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 04, 2010, 06:47:12 PMVivid color on sage is worn today by ... CAP with the distinctive flight and jump suits.
Umm...Huh? Last time I saw a distinctive flight or jump suit, they were
blue, not
green.
Quote from: Hawk200 on July 04, 2010, 06:35:48 PM
Quote from: blackrain on July 04, 2010, 03:35:40 PMBeen a little while but is there any chance the implementation is closer to reality? How about outing the stopping point so said individual can be "encouraged" to answer to the membership and finally put the issue to rest.
I gave you a clue with "Stopping Point." Translate the first letters with initials.
Correct on all counts. You have the same intel I do.
Quote from: Hawk200 on July 04, 2010, 06:35:48 PM
Quote from: flyboy1 on July 04, 2010, 05:28:05 PMConsider that a cloth ASNP with a blue backgroud could justify using cloth rank insignia with the same blue backgroud. It's too logical for the CAP and Vanguard.
I've seen blue background rank on sage green suits before, it doesn't look right for some reason. Doesn't matter if it's ultramarine or navy, it just doesn't seem to work.
It worked just fine for Air Training Command throughout the '70s and '80s.
Quote from: Mustang on July 30, 2010, 05:39:23 AMIt worked just fine for Air Training Command throughout the '70s and '80s.
I've seen the pictures, and that's where I first got the idea that it looked wrong. Ultramarine blue is an eyesore. It would work perfectly for a Hi Viz vest (and I've seen them in the color), but I don't think it makes good insignia.