Careers in ES?

[proveritas]

I've been involved in some facet of ES on a limited (unpaid volunteer stooge) for about two years. Lots of training opportunities, but no real missions/disasters yet. I'm seriously thinking about making the jump to big girl ES, but really know very little about the field beyond EMS/paramedic, firefighting, etc. I have looked at emergency management, but I'm not really interested in admin-type stuff. I'd like to get my feet wet with something hands-on. I've also talked to a couple of military recruiters, but I'm more interested in serving at a local/state level.

Obviously, this is a very broad question ;-) , but I'd love to hear to hear about your experiences in ES, since many of you seem to be involved in the field. Thanks in advance!

[cadet cmsgt dotson]

i am a  volunteer firefighter i just joined in january because of my age but i suggest to become a firefighter  because there is nothing like have to go to a house fire at 2 in the moring and getting home at 7 the beast job ever.

[mikeylikey]

Check out your National Guard.  There are some State Active Duty/ AGR jobs in each State that are primarily ES oriented. 

I also hear there is a new US Ranger Corps forming nationally.  Not sure of the website.......

[JohnKachenmeister]

I spent 25 years as a cop.  I hated the local politics, but I loved the job.

You get to drive fast, shoot people, and you get free donuts.  What's not to like?

[Flying Pig]

I spent 25 years as a cop.  I hated the local politics, but I loved the job.

You get to drive fast, shoot people, and you get free donuts.  What's not to like?

Oh for crying out loud Jack....your going to get this thread locked before it starts.

I have been in Law Enforcement for 11 years.  If your interested in police work, in most states, the Sheriff has a SAR team.  Depending on where you go, it can be a few guys in orange shirts who get called out to look for missing senile adults, to full blown SAR teams with helicopters who work full time doing it.  There is nothing better than being paid to do SAR. 

As far as the military, anything directly SAR oriented will probably require you to attend some serious and extensive training, or be an aircrew member. In CA we have the 129th Air Rescue Wing.  Unless you are a PJ or a Black Hawk crew chief your not really going to be out there doing the cool stuff.

As far as local ES, Id look at your Sheriff or State Police or look into the fire service.  There are very few places who actually do SAR for a full time job much beyond very large Sheriff's Depts and the military.  Also, look into the Coast Guard.  When I was in the Marines we always joked that if you wanted to shoot people and jump out of helicopters, you shudda joined the Coast Guard!  (This was Pre 9-11 of course.)

[sarmed1]

You just have to find out a little more about your local fire and EMS system.   Many states have a tiered USAR system, usually state or regional specific units to fill the hole made by a federal deployment of their states USAR team.  I joined the county team that provides Primarily highangle and confined space rescue as well as trench and collapse and supports the Hazmat team, as a byproduct of our rescue capabiliteis and equipment we also get called out to do some SAR work and its paid (at least for call outs) otherwise it pretty much functions as a volunteer fire department.

mk

[IceNine]

Much like with anything else, SAR and Emergency Management jobs are VERY few and far between.

You would have to be a part of say your Local/State EMA, and even then a full time position almost always requires a degree, and even they to play in the mud you will probably have to do quite a bit of admin, instruction, hand kissing, baby shaking type work.

It's a tough one to get a job doing ES, but best of luck

[proveritas]

Wow, thanks to everyone to who took the time to read.

Our local SAR team and fire/EMS is all voluntary, so that tells you how big this community is. (Generally, they respond to lost senior citizens, treed cats, and the leak in Billy Bob's distillery. )

Shoot, I just want to do something "fun". I'm ok with hand kissing, cat chasing, babysitting, etc., but after a while, ES-type training reaches critical mass and you want to go out and test your skills.

[Flying Pig]

Let me throw another thing out there.  A professional career in SAR in most cases requires a pretty high standard of physical fitness as well when it comes to being an actual "action guy/gal"  I think that is often one of the most overlooked, or misunderstood parts.
I talk to people quite a bit who want to do the "fun" stuff, but don't realize they may be required to hike for long periods at high altitude, run, swim, and ski.  CAP can give a false sense of reality in some cases because we really have no physical requirements.  Many cadets grow up in CAP being a Master Super Commando Ground Team UDF'r sporting a blue beret and an arm full of patches but can barely walk to the refrigerator without taking a break.
If your going for a paid gig, there will be huge competition, and PT is usually the first hurdle that weeds out the day-dreamers.
Those who try out for my agencies SAR Team find themselves right out of the gate on a 2 day try out that is usually held in the winter, and starts out with a timed, several mile cross country ski in the Sierras at about 8000 ft with full gear.  What happens from their is pretty much up the imagination of the existing team members.

[RiverAux]

Some counties have paid emergency management staff and many cities may have as well.  Of course, there are state-level emergency management agencies that have varying degrees of hands-on duties.  I've heard that the Air Force is hiring a bunch of civilian emergency management people for their air bases. 

[mikeylikey]

Those who try out for my agencies SAR Team find themselves right out of the gate on a 2 day try out that is usually held in the winter, and starts out with a timed, several mile cross country ski in the Sierras at about 8000 ft with full gear. 

Have you ever had to go find lost "applicants" who failed to show up at the end point?  That would be ironic?? (right word I think...) 

[PhoenixRisen]

As mentioned previously, SAR-related jobs can be found in organizations such as sheriff's departments, as well as county and state emergency management organizations.

Here are a few examples for San Diego & California:

San Diego County Sheriff's Department Search & Rescue

San Diego County Office of Emergency Services

State of California Office of Emergency Services

Good luck!

[Flying Pig]

Those who try out for my agencies SAR Team find themselves right out of the gate on a 2 day try out that is usually held in the winter, and starts out with a timed, several mile cross country ski in the Sierras at about 8000 ft with full gear. 

Have you ever had to go find lost "applicants" who failed to show up at the end point?  That would be ironic?? (right word I think...) 

No, none of them get lost.  The regular SAR members do the tryout with the applicants.

[bosshawk]

Just to keep the record straight, Flying Pig's county has one tremendous
SAR team.  I am on the SAR team in my nearby minature county and have worked with the Fresno County SAR team on active searches.  Listen to what he has to say.

[JayT]

I've been involved in some facet of ES on a limited (unpaid volunteer stooge) for about two years. Lots of training opportunities, but no real missions/disasters yet. I'm seriously thinking about making the jump to big girl ES, but really know very little about the field beyond EMS/paramedic, firefighting, etc. I have looked at emergency management, but I'm not really interested in admin-type stuff. I'd like to get my feet wet with something hands-on. I've also talked to a couple of military recruiters, but I'm more interested in serving at a local/state level.

Obviously, this is a very broad question ;-) , but I'd love to hear to hear about your experiences in ES, since many of you seem to be involved in the field. Thanks in advance!

Did you ever think about *why* you're an unpaid volunteer in CAP in regards to SAR?

[proveritas]

^ Not trained in any form of SAR yet, just some of the general emergency services training available through local CERT.  Their focus is more on "this is 'mild' structural damage, this is how you turn off a gas valve in someone's basement, if someone is spurting blood, apply pressure here" etc. Common sense stuff.

Flying Pig, the people running your county's SAR program sound like they have their act together. It's been around for a while?

You gotta wonder why NHQ hasn't instituted PT requirements for GTM and GTL by now (that's a whole different can of worms).

[JayT]

You gotta wonder why NHQ hasn't instituted PT requirements for GTM and GTL by now (that's a whole different can of worms).

Because it hasn't been needed up until now.

[mikeylikey]

^ Will it?  We would lose many members I think. 

[lordmonar]

You gotta wonder why NHQ hasn't instituted PT requirements for GTM and GTL by now (that's a whole different can of worms).

Because it hasn't been needed up until now.

It's needed? 

[Flying Pig]

^ Not trained in any form of SAR yet, just some of the general emergency services training available through local CERT.  Their focus is more on "this is 'mild' structural damage, this is how you turn off a gas valve in someone's basement, if someone is spurting blood, apply pressure here" etc. Common sense stuff.

Flying Pig, the people running your county's SAR program sound like they have their act together. It's been around for a while?

You gotta wonder why NHQ hasn't instituted PT requirements for GTM and GTL by now (that's a whole different can of worms).

Our Team has been around for over 20 years.  There are about 30 members.  Some full time, most are collateral duty to their regular jobs as Deputies.  One of the things that contribute to the success of the team is that they are used all the time in real world SARs.  High Angle rescue, swift water rescues.  My county has a large part of the Sierras with the John Muir Trail, and the Kings and San Joaquin Rivers.

As far as PT requirements for CAP?  Ehhhhhhh....In a perfect world maybe.  In real life..not very feasable.  I think you would see us loose many of our members.  Its near impossible to keep a bunch of cops in decent shape.

Just out of curiosity, how old are you?

[isuhawkeye]

If you want to work ES for a career the Midwest is a great place to get your feet wet. 

Here around Des Moines IA we still have a number of Paid Per call/Part Time fire departments.  It is fairly easy to get on.  They pay for training, in Fire, and EMS.  Several Counties have Search and Rescue Teams, and our State has a growing USAR team which will send you to Texas Tech for training

What I recommend is that young folks get a flexible hourly job, find the dept they want to work part time for, then get a cheap apartment in that dept's first due.  Build your resume, and get into the state's pension system, and then start applying for municipal jobs. 


That's the Fire/EMS route any way

[JayT]

You gotta wonder why NHQ hasn't instituted PT requirements for GTM and GTL by now (that's a whole different can of worms).

Because it hasn't been needed up until now.

It's needed? 

Eh, I'm still in 'FEMA requirments are gonna shut us down!' mood.

[isuhawkeye]

shut you down...

Howe do you figure?

[JayT]

shut you down...

Howe do you figure?

Well, if we have to start going to SARTECH requirements, a lot of our jolly vollys aren't going to be happy.

[isuhawkeye]

If you are training your people to the established CAP standards you should meet the SARTECH II. 

There is a very manageable difference between the two

[IceNine]

v

shut you down...

Howe do you figure?

Well, if we have to start going to SARTECH requirements, a lot of our jolly vollys aren't going to be happy.

Just like when we transitioned to task based training, and when they changed to GTM and IC levels, and when they add different tasks.  There is going to be some folks that stop their feet and pout about it but to me the folks that won't fall in line with the new requirements are the ones that are going to be a PITA on a mission anyway.

There are plenty of folks that just want the best training possible and losing the small percentage that are too stubbon to realize a good thing, is not really a loss anyway

[proveritas]

Well, even if CAP GSAR and SARTECH are roughly equivalent, I can see the value of "crosstraining" if only to give CAP personnel experience working with other SAR organizations. (Our methods aren't going to be the same as a team specializing in GSAR.) Might make us stronger as an org in the long run?  

Just out of curiosity, how old are you?

Twenty

[RiverAux]

All the SARTECH program is is a testing program.  There may or may not be actual NASAR-based training classes available in your area and if they are, they may or may not be given by someone currently associated with another SAR organization.  I know in my state there are a lot more testing opportunities than training opportunities from the NASAR-affiliated groups.   Keep in mind there is a money-making motive associated with NASAR certification. 

[isuhawkeye]

I agree completely.  CAP in Iowa had trained and tested nearly a dozen SAR Tech's.

It validates your skills, and provides a common framework when working with other SAR groups

[lordmonar]

You gotta wonder why NHQ hasn't instituted PT requirements for GTM and GTL by now (that's a whole different can of worms).

Because it hasn't been needed up until now.

It's needed? 

Eh, I'm still in 'FEMA requirments are gonna shut us down!' mood.

I have not seen anything in the FEMA requirements that require any PT test.....in fact the FEMA typing system does not really mandate any sort of training except vague language that says

Rescue Capability-Trained rescue personnel with experience in nontechnical backcountry evacuation/carryouts supported by local technical experts

Search Capability-Capable of searching high-probability local wilderness terrain for short durations (24 hours or less)

Training- Must be able to operate the team's equipment; Team members are not expected to operate in remote field locations for extended periods; Must have basic navigation training using a map and compass; Must have technical proficiency in personal survival in local wilderness terrain; Must have awareness of mantracking and maintaining site integrity. Must have a basic understanding of the ICS; Must have proficiency in hasty search techniques

Medical-As appropriate for level of training, as applied in wilderness environment and meeting local protocols and requirements for support of the team

The NIMS standards will not preclude us from participating.   We just can't ever provide an resource higher than Type III because the EMT requirements for Type II and higher.

[CadetProgramGuy]

The NIMS standards will not preclude us from participating.   We just can't ever provide an resource higher than Type III because the EMT requirements for Type II and higher.

Thats one of the many reasons I went and got my EMT done.  One of the many reasons that I believe there should be a FR Encampment to start to qualify more Medics.

[proveritas]

Lordmonar, JThemann may be referring just to people balking about the new FEMA training requirements. New regs --> people dropping out.

I don't see why the new NIMS stuff *should* shut us down, because everyone in ES/SAR now has to take the training if their parent org gets federal funds. You'll have to do the training eventually no matter who you're with, so either you suck it up and do it or you drop out of ES work completely.

[sarmed1]

The PT standard is in the document that details the individual training standards for all position types, not the one for team types  ( if I can find it later I'll post it)

in the proposed update/changes the EMT Stadard was reduced to wilderness first responder.Which is easier to obtain and maintain than EMT.  All FR ireally is advanced first aid with oxygen and blood pressure taking.
Not that hard, and only going to put CAP out of the LSAR game if we want to let it.

mk

[RiverAux]

It just says that there will be some sort of physical requirement, but doesn't specify what it is.  If I recall, it lets the agency determine what is appropriate for them. 

[sarmed1]

Physical/ Medical Fitness
Completion of the following baseline criteria:
1. Medical requirements established by the AHJ
2. Minimum physical fitness standards as required by the AHJ, such as:
  MRA 105.1 Fitness
  CO WSAR Fitness
  NWCG Pack Test "Arduous"
  MCSOMR/CAMRA Mountain Rescue Specific Physical Ability Test
(MRSPAT)
  NIMS WSAR Type II and IV Fitness
3. CDC/ WHO recommended inoculations

The theory being that CAP is the AHJ and could make up their own standard.
But that would only really fly I suppose in areas where CAP is the true "primary" response agency.

mk

[CadetProgramGuy]

All FR ireally is advanced first aid with oxygen and blood pressure taking.
Not that hard, and only going to put CAP out of the LSAR game if we want to let it.

No not really.....  The First Responder is the same training that an EMT has with the exception of Patient movement and a couple of other things.  Other than that, FR's and EMT's have the same training, just shorter time requirements.

The National written and practicals are the same however.

[cap235629]

All FR ireally is advanced first aid with oxygen and blood pressure taking.
Not that hard, and only going to put CAP out of the LSAR game if we want to let it.

No not really.....  The First Responder is the same training that an EMT has with the exception of Patient movement and a couple of other things.  Other than that, FR's and EMT's have the same training, just shorter time requirements.

The National written and practicals are the same however.

HUH?

First responder curriculum is 40 hours, EMT is a minimum of 110 Hours.  Almost 3 times the classwork.  I have had both certifications as well as NREMT-I(another 110 hours) with advanced medication (Narcan, subQ epi, First line cardiac meds, Valium Intubation(adult and peds) manual defib etc.)adding an additional 70 hours.  All the training I have had has built upon the first level and is MUCH more involved the further you go.  First responder is advanced first aid and in SOME jurisdictions, O2. It is by no means the same and the practicals are similar but MUCH more involved as you go higher.

That being said, I am a firm believer that EVERY ground team member should take a DOT curriculum First Responder Course.  EXCELLENT training for the missions we perform.

[cap235629]

^ also, there is no "national" certification exam for First Responder, NREMT starts at EMT

[sarmed1]

I would disagree as well....First Responder is not an EMT-Light, like stated above the time frame is the difference....If you look at basic first aid course almost all of the topic headings are the same as EMT, or even paramedic for that matter, its about the volume of subject material, not just the same "headings".  I mean come on that would be like saying I have the same training as a doctor, just shorter.

Advanced First Aid plus is (as a paramedic and EMS educator) I feel more accurate than almost an EMT.....

cap235629:  search the NREMT web site, they do offer a First Responder certification.
http://www.nremt.org/EMTServices/reg_1st_history.asp

But I digress and drift

mk

[CadetProgramGuy]

All FR ireally is advanced first aid with oxygen and blood pressure taking.
Not that hard, and only going to put CAP out of the LSAR game if we want to let it.

No not really.....  The First Responder is the same training that an EMT has with the exception of Patient movement and a couple of other things.  Other than that, FR's and EMT's have the same training, just shorter time requirements.

The National written and practicals are the same however.

HUH?

First responder curriculum is 40 hours, EMT is a minimum of 110 Hours.  Almost 3 times the classwork.  I have had both certifications as well as NREMT-I(another 110 hours) with advanced medication (Narcan, subQ epi, First line cardiac meds, Valium Intubation(adult and peds) manual defib etc.)adding an additional 70 hours.  All the training I have had has built upon the first level and is MUCH more involved the further you go.  First responder is advanced first aid and in SOME jurisdictions, O2. It is by no means the same and the practicals are similar but MUCH more involved as you go higher.

That being said, I am a firm believer that EVERY ground team member should take a DOT curriculum First Responder Course.  EXCELLENT training for the missions we perform.

Hang on, I was not attacking, just clarifying.

Even though I am a recent NREMT, I have already been asked to help out as skills evaluator for both the FR and EMT classes.

Believe me when I tell you that what I saw, then asked questions over were this:

What are the differences between EMT and FR?

I was told only Ambulance work, patient transport, airway management.

Every thing else is the same, just have to learn at a faster pace.

I am headed off to Intermediate school this fall, and paramedic school next fall.

[JayT]

All FR ireally is advanced first aid with oxygen and blood pressure taking.
Not that hard, and only going to put CAP out of the LSAR game if we want to let it.

No not really.....  The First Responder is the same training that an EMT has with the exception of Patient movement and a couple of other things.  Other than that, FR's and EMT's have the same training, just shorter time requirements.

The National written and practicals are the same however.

That's just wrong.

[isuhawkeye]

CP guy,

You were told incorrectly.  the NAtionally registered FR program does not have the same level of A+P that the EMT does.  They also have a much more limited Scope of Practice.  HEre in Iowa they can not back board, and they can not splint. 

These folks are a significant step up from a first aid course, but they are about half way from being an EMT.

I know this is not terribly clear, but I dont think anyone here wants to do the curriculum cross walk.