Survival Myths

[LSThiker]

I was internet surfing the other day and ran across numerous "survival myths" websites.  Doing a quick search here, I find no direct pages discussing survival myths (unless it is buried in another thread somewhere else).  We have all been told survival myths claimed by expert, which some are down right dangerous and can lead to death.  What are some you have heard while taught in a CAP/GT setting?

For example, a few (but no way a complete list):

Cacti hold drinkable water and are great for dehydration
Drink urine if no water available
Eating snow (not melted) is great way to rehydrate
When building a shelter, do not worry about the ground
Suck snake poison out
Rationing water in the desert

[THRAWN]

I was internet surfing the other day and ran across numerous "survival myths" websites.  Doing a quick search here, I find no direct pages discussing survival myths (unless it is buried in another thread somewhere else).  We have all been told survival myths claimed by expert, which some are down right dangerous and can lead to death.  What are some you have heard while taught in a CAP/GT setting?

For example, a few (but no way a complete list):

Cacti hold drinkable water and are great for dehydration
Drink urine if no water available
Eating snow (not melted) is great way to rehydrate
When building a shelter, do not worry about the ground
Suck snake poison out
Rationing water in the desert

FM 21-76 is the funniest book ever published.

[a2capt]

http://www.pssurvival.com/ps/military_fms/fm_21-76_us_army_survival_manual_2006.pdf

[LSThiker]

That is an excellent reference and have read it cover to cover numerous times. I used to own a copy of it but lost it during one of my moves.

So anyway what about incorrect information that you have heard being passed on?

[EMT-83]

Carry a cell phone. You can always call for help if you're otherwise clueless.

[Eclipse]

Much of the GT curriculum is taken from AFR 64-4.

AFR 64-4 (1985): http://www.tacticalintelligence.net/USAF-Survival-Manual-644.pdf
or: http://www.mediafire.com/download/yc16dnagd52vfrg/USAF-Survival-Manual-644.pdf

There's a newer version published in 2002, but I can't find it as an eBook or .PDF,
you can still get it on Amazon, but if anyone has an official ebook I've love a link.
(I came across this in a bookstore in 2002 or 2003 for about $5, eventually gave my copy to a cadet.)

And here's the 1999 version of the Multi-Service SERE Guide: http://www.equipped.org/multiservice_ser_manual_1999.pdf
(I have a hard copy signed by Ultimate Kirt!)

[Luis R. Ramos]

Yep. Carry a cell phone and rely on it.

But be sure to have one of those "unlimited use" batteries that last weeks or months on one charge...

Carrying a cell phone, while it is a great idea, is only as good as the battery lasts.

[LSThiker]

Carry a cell phone. You can always call for help if you're otherwise clueless.

It is funny how much we rely on cell phones now. 

I have heard people say "oh I will just use the compass on my phone"

[Storm Chaser]

Still better than carrying spare change for a pay phone.

[Eclipse]

^ If you can find a payphone these days...

If it's "important" to your like (physically, financially, whatever) it needs a backup.

Whether that's extra batteries, multiple services, an analog analogue to a digital device, etc.
Also, knowing how to use them is important, too.  Knowing which way North is, means nothing
if you don't know which direction help is.

[Storm Chaser]

Exactly.

[LSThiker]

True.  Although the use of a compass vs a digital compass is more of a personal preference than a survival myth. 

[ReCAP]

One issue I often see confused is the distinction between things that can be improvised and preparing yourself with the right tools for the job to begin with.  More than once I've seen someone that has some steel wool and batteries packed in his survival kit as an "emergency firestarter" because he saw it in a survival manual. 

My all-time favorite survival myth and pet peeve is "collect enough firewood to last the night".  If you just crawled out of the drink and your clothes are freezing on you, by all means build a big fire in front of a lean-to.  Otherwise, if at all possible build a fully enclosed, insulated shelter and enjoy a good night's sleep. 

[lordmonar]

That's why you teach the priorities.....shelter, fire, water, food.

[Eclipse]

That's why you teach the priorities.....shelter, fire, water, food.

Agreed - the problem with the CAP GT program is that we teach survival, which is rarely, if ever going to
be needed, but not "working in the wild" (if you can see the distinction).

So the emphasis is on Armageddon instead of what's needed from a practical perspective.

If you're building fires to eat, shelters to live, or kitty holes to poop while on a CAP SAR, your
attention is decidedly in the wrong place.

[LSThiker]

Agreed - the problem with the CAP GT program is that we teach survival, which is rarely, if ever going to
be needed, but not "working in the wild" (if you can see the distinction).

Since most of the GT survival tasks have already been removed, that really is not a problem any more.  The only tasks remotely covering such topics is "field sanitation" and "conducts actions if lost".  The "identify natural hazards" task might be included as well.

Either way, what the GT curriculum teaches and what it should not teach is irrelevant to the question.  The question is "what are some survival myths that you have heard taught in a CAP/GT setting?".  This can include false information about incorrect animal and plant identification, incorrect priorities of work, things to do when lost, things that lost people do, etc.

[lordmonar]

One of my biggest peeves with show like survivor man or Bear Guiles (SP?) is that they violate the first law when lost in the woods.....say put!

Stay with the boat, with the car, with the aircraft, where ever you are if on foot.

Sure.....you can move to higher ground or to a safer location, or to a clearing......but keep your movement to an absolute minimum.

[a2capt]

Someone might have seen something, made a report, and you left.

[blackrain]

Carry a cell phone. You can always call for help if you're otherwise clueless.

It is funny how much we rely on cell phones now. 

I have heard people say "oh I will just use the compass on my phone"

You know I actually sprung for a cheap Roshan Cell (with scratch card minutes) in Afghanistan as back-up means of comms. Ironically it was more reliable than most means especially in the Kabul area....though even in RC-East it worked pretty much everywhere....not secure but in a pinch it could be a lifesaver. I could reliably reach the Operations Center along with the various team members. I was reading "Lone Survivor" and I found myself wondering if they had had such a simple device if the outcome would have been different.

As for the US I recall some areas in southern Arizona that were like the dark side of the moon for cell reception......

[lordmonar]

Carry a cell phone. You can always call for help if you're otherwise clueless.

It is funny how much we rely on cell phones now. 

I have heard people say "oh I will just use the compass on my phone"

You know I actually sprung for a cheap Roshan Cell (with scratch card minutes) in Afghanistan as back-up means of comms. Ironically it was more reliable than most means especially in the Kabul area....though even in RC-East it worked pretty much everywhere....not secure but in a pinch it could be a lifesaver. I could reliably reach the Operations Center along with the various team members. I was reading "Lone Survivor" and I found myself wondering if they had had such a simple device if the outcome would have been different.

As for the US I recall some areas in southern Arizona that were like the dark side of the moon for cell reception......

Some Air Bases too....Creech in Nevada and Cannon in New Mexico both have crappy cell coverage.

[Eclipse]

Carry a cell phone. You can always call for help if you're otherwise clueless.

It is funny how much we rely on cell phones now. 

I have heard people say "oh I will just use the compass on my phone"

You know I actually sprung for a cheap Roshan Cell (with scratch card minutes) in Afghanistan as back-up means of comms. Ironically it was more reliable than most means especially in the Kabul area....though even in RC-East it worked pretty much everywhere....not secure but in a pinch it could be a lifesaver. I could reliably reach the Operations Center along with the various team members. I was reading "Lone Survivor" and I found myself wondering if they had had such a simple device if the outcome would have been different.

As for the US I recall some areas in southern Arizona that were like the dark side of the moon for cell reception......

We had a former cadet who was in the Guard in Iraq - he said everyone wanted guard duty because the tower was the only place with
good reception.

[SARDOC]

Carry a cell phone. You can always call for help if you're otherwise clueless.

It is funny how much we rely on cell phones now. 

I have heard people say "oh I will just use the compass on my phone"

Nah..don't use the compass on your phone.  Just use the GPS and enter the location where you want to go.  When in a Survival situation, I typically enter looking for a Starbucks.  They have the best public restrooms.

[bosshawk]

There are tons of places in the Sierra Nevadas in CA where your cell phone is so much dead weight.  I happen to live in one of them.

[PHall]

There are tons of places in the Sierra Nevadas in CA where your cell phone is so much dead weight.  I happen to live in one of them.

Gotta get that weather ballon and a couple hundred feet of WD-1 Paul. That should get you a signal!

[Eclipse]

There are tons of places in the Sierra Nevadas in CA where your cell phone is so much dead weight.  I happen to live in one of them.

A GPS with cached maps works anywhere it can see the satellites.

You can still use the compass, not to mention the .pdf copy of the USAF Survival guide.

Use the glass face as a signal mirror, the screen as a flashlight, and record your last Will and Testament in a video.

You can also use it to jam to the Black Eyed Peas while wandering in circles.

[Spaceman3750]

"A CD makes a great signal mirror"

"I'm prepared, I brought this survival kit I bought at Wal-Mart. It has 3 matches, half a space blanket, and a cute little compass."

[bosshawk]

I really can get an occasional cell signal, just need to be in the right room in my house or up on the hill by the horse barn: every other day and a few nights are good.  Verizon happens to be the company of choice, since they are the only ones with towers anywhere in this county.  If you have AT&T, leave your phone in your pocket.

My cell has no GPS capability, since it is a "dumb" phone.  I am too technically challenged to have a smart phone: had my first college degree before personal computers were even invented and I have never been interested enough to learn all that stuff.

[LSThiker]

"A CD makes a great signal mirror"

While a CD looks like it would work, it really does not over a long distance.  At a short range playing with the idea, it looks bright to most people.  However, they fail to realize that the light disperses the further you go out.  A flat mirror is the best, but a CD would work in a pinch.  I played around with this before years ago.  At 11 miles on an excellent day with a new CD, you can see it but not much further than that.   

[lordmonar]

Well I think that's the point.

The CD is only really good in A) your car just broke down in the middle of no-where and you see a helo/plane/people in the distance....you may just have one to signal him...not best...but better then nothing.....and B) You are just getting you feet wet with this Ground Team thing and you don't want to spend $20 for a good signal mirror so go with a CD.

At some point you have to bite the bullet and get "real" gear....but it is goood for a start.

[Spaceman3750]

"A CD makes a great signal mirror"

While a CD looks like it would work, it really does not over a long distance.  At a short range playing with the idea, it looks bright to most people.  However, they fail to realize that the light disperses the further you go out.  A flat mirror is the best, but a CD would work in a pinch.  I played around with this before years ago.  At 11 miles on an excellent day with a new CD, you can see it but not much further than that.   

Yeah I know, that's why I quoted it. Everyone I've seen carrying a "signal mirror" CD was also carrying an old Clapton CD in a sandwich baggie and it was scratched up. Couldn't see it 5 feet, let alone 1-2k

[LSThiker]

carrying an old Clapton CD

Good choice for CDs.  Other than Wonderful Tonight, which I only play to annoy my wife, I never really got into his music. 

[LSThiker]

B) You are just getting you feet wet with this Ground Team thing and you don't want to spend $20 for a good signal mirror so go with a CD.

True, although I never spent $20 for a good signal mirror (I think $10) but yes I get your point.  However, when informing people of the CD "alternative", it is best to state the pro's and con's of the gear.  Something that I find very few people doing.  For example, the pro's and con's of synthetic vs down sleeping bags vs quilts and temperatures of -20, 20, 30, 40+, etc.  Or the use of a tarp vs hammock vs tent shelters.  Just for the record, I would never expect any one to buy a down sleeping bag. Heck I still have not even made that investment even though I have a 11lb base weight for backpacking.   

[Spaceman3750]

I don't see how I can evaluate you on signal mirror use using a CD. You really need a proper sighting hole. I've found the hand sighting technique to be much less effective in informal field tests.

[Garibaldi]

I don't see how I can evaluate you on signal mirror use using a CD. You really need a proper sighting hole. I've found the hand sighting technique to be much less effective in informal field tests.

CDs are good, and many female cadets carry some sort of makeup case with a small mirror that they can use. The hand sighting technique is fiercely good. I always have advised cadets to get a metal mirror and not a glass one due to breakage.

[Spaceman3750]

I don't see how I can evaluate you on signal mirror use using a CD. You really need a proper sighting hole. I've found the hand sighting technique to be much less effective in informal field tests.

CDs are good, and many female cadets carry some sort of makeup case with a small mirror that they can use. The hand sighting technique is fiercely good. I always have advised cadets to get a metal mirror and not a glass one due to breakage.

I'll chalk this one to YMMV then. I've found signal mirrors to be hugely important for dismounted A/G coordination so I stick with the good stuff, but I can't compel anyone to believe me or buy anything.

[Garibaldi]

I don't see how I can evaluate you on signal mirror use using a CD. You really need a proper sighting hole. I've found the hand sighting technique to be much less effective in informal field tests.

CDs are good, and many female cadets carry some sort of makeup case with a small mirror that they can use. The hand sighting technique is fiercely good. I always have advised cadets to get a metal mirror and not a glass one due to breakage.

I'll chalk this one to YMMV then. I've found signal mirrors to be hugely important for dismounted A/G coordination so I stick with the good stuff, but I can't compel anyone to believe me or buy anything.

Heck, even the screen of their smart phone would work. It's gotta be good for something out in the field, even when there is no signal!

[Eclipse]

I don't see how I can evaluate you on signal mirror use using a CD. You really need a proper sighting hole. I've found the hand sighting technique to be much less effective in informal field tests.

You see the signal or you don't.

What else is there.  A CD might not burn a hole in your hand like a $50 signal mirror will, but it will get the job done.

And you and I both have direct experience that even a 4x8 sheet of tinfoil won't do any good if the "searchers" are clueless
or literally see you and then don't tell anyone.

[Devil Doc]

Shoot I Stihl carry around an "Old CD/DVD" it was free, if it brakes oh whell. Dang, Text Speak, Go Away!!

[lordmonar]

I don't see how I can evaluate you on signal mirror use using a CD. You really need a proper sighting hole. I've found the hand sighting technique to be much less effective in informal field tests.

End Results.....does the trainee get the shiny spot on the target?   What is to evaluate?

"Cadet.....put that spot on that sign post over there."
"Now put it on that sign post over there."
"Now put it on that sign post over there."

That's all there is too  it.

We need to show both techniques...because one day all you are going to have is a shard of rear view mirror and a bad look angle!

[Spartan]

That is why I train GT trainees with my signal mirror and evaluate them on proper usage of the signal mirror. They get to signal my assistant 100+ meters away. The CD approach works, but it is not as effective as greater distances or at lower light levels.

I like using my smart phone as an example of an everyday item that can work in a pinch.

My favorite myth involves cacti as a water source. If you don't find the correct kind you WILL acquire diarrhea and make your problem worse. In the correct cacti, it isn't water, but a moist pulp that is kind of bittersweet.

[JeffDG]

Just take the Inland SAR Planning Course guide with you...that way you can statistically predict where they will be looking for you.