Why don't we publisize our saves more?

[RiverAux]

CAP has a bad habit of throwing that word around for changing a tire with your back to traffic.

You're confusing save credit with CAP Medals of Valor.  Saves are awarded by AFRCC not by CAP.  I'm not saying all of what AFRCC calls saves would meet my idea of a save, but they're who we work for.

[ZigZag911]

Is there any objective data available on these 100 saves reported?

That would be a great way to steer this conversation back onto firm ground.

Frankly, I'm a bit skeptical myself about that number...I've been doing this 40 years now, and don't ever recall CAP claiming that many saves in a single year.

Which does not take away from the initial point of the thread, that we ought to let the public know the good that CAP does -- whether it's 1 or 100.

[JC004]

...
Frankly, I'm a bit skeptical myself about that number...I've been doing this 40 years now, and don't ever recall CAP claiming that many saves in a single year.
...

They used to have it in the tagline for news releases.  Many of them are generally Alaska every year.  They are broken down by wing in the annual reports.

[Smithsonia]

We save everyday. We save millions that couldn't be recreated by 100 times the money full of paid professionals. We save kids from an errant life by making them cadets. We save idle brains by offering education. We save when we take pictures. We save when we teach courses. We save when we learn a lesson. We save when we participate. We save when we are on every mission and training exercise. AND we pay to do it.

We pay for gear. We pay for training. We pay for uniforms. We pay in dues. We pay in time. We pay in sweat. We pay in cash. We pay to save
others. We pay in giving honor. We save only after we pay and pay much.

Most of all we save each other. We save by saying thanks. We save through appreciation. We save in every thing we do. Yes, saving people
lives that are lost or in need of rescue is important. However, what we save, how we save, when we save, all the saves - are all parts of the story.

Of course "God Save Us All." BUT, when he doesn't - we do. We Are The Civil Air Patrol. What can we do for you? Save? We're on it, every day!

Think about Pakistan. Think about Haiti. Think about Katina. Think about what we did in Louisiana. Think about how much other countries need similar organizations to ours.

I am taking CERT Training right now. We are taught by paid professionals to do exactly what CAP does for free. 90% of what we learn in CERT are things I've already learned in CAP. We could save HLS millions by having 200,000 or even 400,000 members in CAP. There is no end to our saves. 100 saves makes some us laugh? Try millions! The real answer is billions! SAVED

Oh brother,.......its getting deep in here.  OK, back to reality.

Flying Pig;
If we hang onto to SAVEs alone as justification for our existence then we will live and die on that sword. Those numbers will go up and down and be constantly subject to controversy because aligned agencies will take/want/deserve credit too. I was offering alternative words to the sole use of (save) numbers.

Some people do not have those words on hand or in mind. So "it was getting deep indeed"... your unfortunate comment means there are depths that are impossible for you to understand. You have justified the purpose and need for good PIO/MIO/PAOs... so thanks.

But, professional dismissal runs both ways. Dismiss the professional PAO's good words about CAP (mine) and I'll dismiss your comment as unnecessarily small. No let me fully describe that comment, so there is no misunderstanding on your part... Puny and Snide. Part of what we do is to help SAR crews not make fools of themselves in front of the Public, in your case  - I was too late.

I guess I hurt your feelings.  Here, hows this....
You can dismiss me as snide and puny if you want. But guess what, I see CAP from the perspective of the people you are trying to convince as a professional SAR/LE pilot with more actual saves and rescues than probably most people who post here.  On the CAP side I am a CAP Senior Pilot, Mission/CD Pilot and Squadron Commander of one of the most successful squadrons in CAWG and Pacific Region.  So you can claim I don't understand, but I would venture to guess most wont agree with your assessment.
What I see by your definition is an organization that is REALLY reaching in attempts to justify itself when you use your version of things.  CAP claims 100 saves, that means something and CAP should be able to explain it and publicize it.  I am not looking for kids saved from gangs or how much you pay in dues.  The thread was about 100 SAVES.  In the SAR world, a save is someone who would be dead if you didn't bring them back.  CAP has a bad habit of throwing that word around for changing a tire with your back to traffic. Your assessment of what CAP is, is what we call an exaggeration and would get you shown the door if you tried to bring that to my boss as a reason people should look to CAP.  So what Im telling you is that I am a very involved CAP commander, and I don't even buy your assessment of what you think CAP is.

Flying Pig;
This is a professional discussion. So no my feelings are never a part of a debate. However, you're in Fresno if I remember. Thanks for your resume. Usually a resume substitutes for logic. As in "I'm important so that should make my point." OK let's go with that. But, on your part that is an unfortunate direction, again. I'll offer a bit of my resume in a moment. Please review.

From the Fresno Police Dept's. website  - this is what your boss says is important to him as these are the action buttons on your website.:
Police Department -About Fresno PD - Contact Police - Crime Prevention -Crime Reports & Statistics - Employment & Volunteer Service
Family Justice Bureau - For Kids - Cool Links for Kids - Freddy Fresno - Neighborhood Problems - News & Media - Police Services & Special Units - Employee Commendation - FAQs - Identity Theft - Internal Affairs Bureau On-Line Complaint Form

That is the complete list of topics on the action buttons from the website.

I count 9 topics which we would consider "touchy feely soft" but directly in line with my points for you. Are you saying that your department presents these topics hypocritically? Is this an exaggeration by the Fresno Police? Would someone speaking about these topics be kicked out of you bosses office? Really... these are most odd things to claim. Volunteers worthless? Kids, who cares? Freddy Fresno, who? WOW. That is on the Police Dept. Website.

KFSN-TV and the Fresno/Modesto Bee love these kinds of stories. Oh now my resume - I am a media consultant. If you have a preference as to would you'd like to speak with on the topic let me know. Both of these local valley media are my clients and both might be interested.

My actual point here is that you continue to dig a deeper hole for yourself. At first you were just snide. Now you are a hypocrite too. For us in the media hypocrisy is the low hanging fruit.

To hang all CAPs reputation on Saves is like your department hanging all of it's reputation on straight arrest numbers. When actually there are more things to consider... like crime statistics, community relations, quality of life, etc. Don't you agree? Because you are getting pretty deep in there.

[Flying Pig]

I dont really know anything about Fresno PD.

www.fresnosheriff.org

[Smithsonia]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Flying Pig:
Same basic set up and guiding principals for both organizations. Your sheriff's dept. has a youth league (SAL), explorers groups, Volunteers and other "soft products" just like the Police Dept. programs and just like CAP. Your website's first page is your Sheriff's bio, history lesson on previous sheriffs and some other "softer content." Although it does have a SWAT marksman too.

SO -  Same "soft-issues" apply to and work for your Sheriff's Department, CAP, and all Police Departments everywhere. No change in my previous post, except for your organization's name. None of which should get anyone kicked out of the Sheriff's Office.

Look how your organization leads the conversation. Most Departments must do the same. Think about it for a bit. This soft presentation is much better than opening every conversation by hollering "I am Deputy Flying Pig, freeze dirt bag." SO, your department presents itself as not too cool for the room. Not badge heavy. Not even as a protector but more as a servant.

How many citizen were served in various "soft" ways - is far better than how many citizens died in custody, were killed in shoot outs, maced in handcuffs, or chased down by patrol cars.

So you were first snide, followed by hypocritical, and now - incapable of making the mental leap. It is the trifecta. And all you wanted in the beginning was to be cool in front of your friends. When someone does that in front of a sheriff's officer, how are they treated by that officer?
How about after an officer writes a traffic ticket and the cocky young man, in a vane effort reassert his manhood, burns rubber leaving the traffic stop? What does one do? When will the errant learn? How best to teach and inform, while also protecting the public? Sometimes we PAOs/MIOs/PIOs face similar questions - while witnessing an otherwise trivial manhood reassertion.   

[Flying Pig]

Snide, hypocritical and mentally incapable.  Well there you have it.

[bosshawk]

Rob: what more could you ask for?

Glad that you are my friend.

[vento]

Interesting, we've just reached the 100 saves for fiscal year 2010.
http://www.capvolunteernow.com/x

[PHall]

To answer the original question on why we don't publicize our saves more?
For the same reason the Air Force and the Coast Guard don't, it just isn't "professional" to make a big deal about it.
Only rank amateurs (and Congresscritters) "toot their own horn."

[RiverAux]

Are you kidding me?  Just to prove my point, I just pulled up the CG's main page -- 2 stories about 33,000 persons saved during Katrina and an ad for "first hand video accounts of Coast Guard rescues during Hurricane Katrina" tonight on NatGeo.  How about multiple news releases on recent CG saves in one of their districts (http://www.d8externalaffairs.com/go/doc/425/455751/). 

Now, I can't do the same with the AF, since they just don't save anywhere near as many people as the CG.  But, I guarantee you that everytime they do, there is a press release. 

it just isn't "professional" to make a big deal about it.  Only rank amateurs (and Congresscritters) "toot their own horn."

Now, its not professional for those involved in the actual save to go around bragging about it, but that is entirely different from the organization using its public affairs program to let people know what they're doing. 

[JC004]

All things considered, CAP doesn't publicize much with any super consistency, so this could be said about a lot of things.  CAP lacks the infrastructure - small Public Affairs office at NHQ, lack of professional staff below the National level, serious gaps in PAO training, spotty guidance (although this has improved), in-fighting, no cohesive public affairs/marketing/branding plan, inconsistent branding...

Simply, the backbone to support this PROPERLY doesn't really exist.

[Smithsonia]

The Navy's new advertising campaign is "A Global Force For Good." Translated "we show up in Indonesia and Haiti and sometimes
sink, shoot, and run over Somali Pirates." As long as the Navy is working our side of the street - I want to go after some of their pirates.

These are all call soft leads. We should look at what the military produces. They have shows which appear to be newscasts and run free on various access channels. These run 30 minutes. The interior vignettes semi-pro in production value. We could easily produce something as good. We'd need some money to do it... but use locally produced video, pix, interviews, and pipe it all online to the
various public access channels across the nation.

[JC004]

If you're going to look at the military, look at the Marines.  Nobody has their crap together like they do in marketing, branding, and the like.  We could take a serious lesson from them on uniform changes too.

If I say "A Global Force For Good" to someone off the street and ask them to identify the brand, I bet they won't know.  If I say "The few.  The Proud." I bet the result would be different.

I've mentioned this before - some Marine recruiters gave me a poster to put up at my squadron.  It was a composite poster of a 1940's era poster and a modern-day Marine ad.  Same uniform, same brand, same message.  Now that's a brand to be proud of. 

[Smithsonia]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
JC004;
I've lauded the Marine's advertising many times on CAPTALK. However, that wasn't the point I was trying to make. The Few the Proud the Marines is about recruitment and being tough. The Navy is about something a little broader and softer image-wise. Which is more like CAP and Coast Guard. 

[SarDragon]

One of the Canoe Club slogans WIWOAD was, "It's not a job, it's an adventure."

It didn't have near the impact as, "A few good men."

As an aside:

[Flying Pig]

To answer the original question on why we don't publicize our saves more?
For the same reason the Air Force and the Coast Guard don't, it just isn't "professional" to make a big deal about it.
Only rank amateurs (and Congresscritters) "toot their own horn."

I dont know about that.  I see articles everywhere whenever Law Enforcement, Fire, Coast Guard, military, etc do anything even halfway interesting.

for example

www.alea.org

[ammotrucker]

The question that I would have is that 61 of those saves came out of AZWG.  I find it hard to believe that count is accurate

[sardak]

55 of the Arizona saves occurred in December, 2009 (which is in FY10) in one mission and were included in the 2009 AFRCC annual report. The other AZWG saves were from other CAP searches and the cell phone forensics of Justin Ogden. We discussed them here:
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=10283.msg187411#msg187411

Mike

[JC004]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
JC004;
I've lauded the Marine's advertising many times on CAPTALK. However, that wasn't the point I was trying to make. The Few the Proud the Marines is about recruitment and being tough. The Navy is about something a little broader and softer image-wise. Which is more like CAP and Coast Guard.

That wasn't my point.  I'm talking about the general approach and success, not the message itself.  CAP would do well to have a nice slogan.  Picking one, then using it in a real branding strategy is a great start.  Something not unlike the Navy slogan would be nice, although I kind of like "CAP TRANSFORMERS: MORE THAN MEETS THE SKIES."  BAHAHAHAHAHA.

On a side note, I'm not sure that I'm real into the Air Force's "Above All."