USAF Tropical Dress- Historical

[Hawk200]

He didn't "do away with hundreds of years of tradition."

In a way he did, although I don't think in the way that was said. Except for the Navy, most branches had a four pocket design based on the "battle coat" design. Shelby Stanton's books on Army uniforms give a little more history on the evolution of the Army dress uniform, and on the original "battle coat".

And when the uniform was rolled out, it had the U.S., it had the ribbons, the wings, the braid, the epaulets for officers.

As someone who was active duty Air Force at the time that uniform was rolled out, I can tell you for a fact that the uniform did not have all those things. McPeak introduced a coat with rank insignia, ribbons, and a badge for most people (two badges allowed over ribbons if you were aircrew). Yes, McPeak is also wearing a Joint Chief's badge, but most people didn't have that or similar type of badge to wear.

On the flag ranks site, this page has a pic of McPeak wearing his uniform design (Fig 17 on that page): http://usafflagranks.com/usaf_service_dress_coat_uniform.html

Fogleman eliminated the lower sleeve rank, added epaulets, allowed an additional badge for non-aircrew, and returned the "US" insignia to the uniform. In that manner, it has a similar  style and cut to the one in the first post. Whether Fogleman unknowingly made it similar, or he actually looked up the old style is uknown.

Personally, I like the design shown here. It just looks more military for some reason. The basic McPeak uniform lacks a uniquely military appearance.

And, Major Carrales, these historical uniforms posts are interesting. They let us look at some of our current mother branches' history, an appreciation of which, lately, is sorely lacking. Keep 'em coming.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

He didn't "do away with hundreds of years of tradition."

In a way he did, although I don't think in the way that was said. Except for the Navy, most branches had a four pocket design based on the "battle coat" design. Shelby Stanton's books on Army uniforms give a little more history on the evolution of the Army dress uniform, and on the original "battle coat".

And when the uniform was rolled out, it had the U.S., it had the ribbons, the wings, the braid, the epaulets for officers.

As someone who was active duty Air Force at the time that uniform was rolled out, I can tell you for a fact that the uniform did not have all those things. McPeak introduced a coat with rank insignia, ribbons, and a badge for most people (two badges allowed over ribbons if you were aircrew). Yes, McPeak is also wearing a Joint Chief's badge, but most people didn't have that or similar type of badge to wear.

On the flag ranks site, this page has a pic of McPeak wearing his uniform design (Fig 17 on that page): http://usafflagranks.com/usaf_service_dress_coat_uniform.html

Fogleman eliminated the lower sleeve rank, added epaulets, allowed an additional badge for non-aircrew, and returned the "US" insignia to the uniform. In that manner, it has a similar  style and cut to the one in the first post. Whether Fogleman unknowingly made it similar, or he actually looked up the old style is uknown.

Personally, I like the design shown here. It just looks more military for some reason. The basic McPeak uniform lacks a uniquely military appearance.

The uniform didn't roll out to the field until all those changes were made -- that's what I meant.

The only differences I see between the coat on this page and our uniform are that there's another button and the welt pocket sits a little higher.

[Hawk200]

The uniform didn't roll out to the field until all those changes were made -- that's what I meant.

If you mean that it didn't roll out until it had epaulets, "US" insignia, and allowed more than a single badge for other than aircrew, that would be incorrect. I knew many early adopters that wore the uniform as McPeak presented it, but it was in the field that way. It was less than a year, McPeak retired, and when Fogleman came in, he asked the rank and file what they wanted. The uniform as it is now is not how it was originally adopted.

The only differences I see between the coat on this page and our uniform are that there's another button and the welt pocket sits a little higher.

True, but I think the one above looks better. Maybe it's just the additional button.

[AlphaSigOU]

The US Army, until recently, had a "Tropical white uniform" for duty in places like the Canal Zone and the Philippines.

I guess since we don't have troops there anymore, the tropical white seems a little silly.  The AF probably developed the white as an equivalent uniform to the Army white.

I don't know if the Germans had a tropical white uniform or not.  I never saw any Germans in either the Canal Zone or in the Philippines.  Saw a couple in Alabama, though, on a hot summer night.  They were in civvies, though.

(thumbing through my book on Luftwaffe uniforms...) Yep, they sure did. Actually all they wore (officers only) was the white jacket and blue trousers in summer months and sometimes a white service cap cover.

[JohnKachenmeister]

The US Army, until recently, had a "Tropical white uniform" for duty in places like the Canal Zone and the Philippines.

I guess since we don't have troops there anymore, the tropical white seems a little silly.  The AF probably developed the white as an equivalent uniform to the Army white.

I don't know if the Germans had a tropical white uniform or not.  I never saw any Germans in either the Canal Zone or in the Philippines.  Saw a couple in Alabama, though, on a hot summer night.  They were in civvies, though.

(thumbing through my book on Luftwaffe uniforms...) Yep, they sure did. Actually all they wore (officers only) was the white jacket and blue trousers in summer months and sometimes a white service cap cover.

Interesting, Chuck.

In the German Navy, the white service cap was reserved for commanders of vessels.  Did the same rule hold fast in the Luftwaffe, white service cap for commanders?

[AlphaSigOU]

The US Army, until recently, had a "Tropical white uniform" for duty in places like the Canal Zone and the Philippines.

I guess since we don't have troops there anymore, the tropical white seems a little silly.  The AF probably developed the white as an equivalent uniform to the Army white.

I don't know if the Germans had a tropical white uniform or not.  I never saw any Germans in either the Canal Zone or in the Philippines.  Saw a couple in Alabama, though, on a hot summer night.  They were in civvies, though.

(thumbing through my book on Luftwaffe uniforms...) Yep, they sure did. Actually all they wore (officers only) was the white jacket and blue trousers in summer months and sometimes a white service cap cover.

Interesting, Chuck.

In the German Navy, the white service cap was reserved for commanders of vessels.  Did the same rule hold fast in the Luftwaffe, white service cap for commanders?

The white cap cover was for officers only; no distinction for command as in the Kriegsmarine.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Danke, Herr Hauptmann!

I just saw "Valkyrie," (good flick, BTW, but shallow in its treatment of the German Resistance) and it scared me that I actually recognized most of the German insignia. 

I'm pretty sure that the badge worn by the major in command of the Berlin battalion of the Reserve Army, who arrested Klaus von S., was a Stuka pilot badge. Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Wieder Danke,

Oberst Kachenmeister

[MIKE]

Johnston's Law says this thread is done.