Dumb new guy question. How do I attach the plastic insignia on the flight suit? Sew on? Velcro?
Thanks
Sew it on. I took mine to an alterations shop. They happen to do a lot of military-type uniforms and had the proper (i.e. strong) needles.
I, OTOH, glued mine to the proper color Velcro hook, and sewed the pile on the bag. YMMV.
Sewing looks better, velcro is approved.
At least get green (or blue) velcro thta matches the flight suit.
We have several very lazy members in ILWG who have velcro'ed grade on with black velcro, looks terrible.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 27, 2006, 02:50:36 PM
We have several very lazy members in ILWG who have velcro'ed grade on with black velcro, looks terrible.
There's some photos online of AKWG aircrew who have the grade velcro'ed on with *gag* white velcro. Looks extremely tacky.
I used the OD green Velcro and it blends right in - you can barely tell it's Velcro'ed on. Never had an issue. :)
?!?!?!? WHITE?!?!?!?
:o
Do these people have mirrors?
I guess if I were color blind I could mistake white for OD... It's almost as bad as sewing name/CAP tapes on with white thread...
Quote from: Eclipse on July 27, 2006, 09:32:21 PM
?!?!?!? WHITE?!?!?!?
:o
Do these people have mirrors?
Sad, but 'tis true. :-\
So what's wrong with it? Can you point me to something that says what color Velcro I'm supposed to use? If common sense were common, then everyone would have it.
Personally, I'd be more worried about the insignia coming off without me noticing it. Given my druthers, I'd prefer cloth insignia on the shoulders anyway.
Quote from: Pylon on July 27, 2006, 10:25:53 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on July 27, 2006, 09:32:21 PM
?!?!?!? WHITE?!?!?!?
:o
Do these people have mirrors?
Sad, but 'tis true. :-\
Be careful...that may not be white, but rather.......condensation.
Happens all the time...our squadron's cadet O-Pilot has that issue and I've seen it too on mine.
May not be white...might just look like it.
The unwritten rule:
Green velcro on the green bag.
Dark blue or black velcro on the dark blue bag.
And, depending on the humidity, plastic encased grade tends to collect condensation.
Quote from: shorning on July 27, 2006, 10:42:54 PM
So what's wrong with it? Can you point me to something that says what color Velcro I'm supposed to use? If common sense were common, then everyone would have it.
Personally, I'd be more worried about the insignia coming off without me noticing it. Given my druthers, I'd prefer cloth insignia on the shoulders anyway.
I agree, Im always worried about velcro stuff somehow coming off of my uniform and Ive seen the velcro-ed insignia come off many a time when someone is putting on or taking off their seatbelt.
Quote from: shorning on July 27, 2006, 10:42:54 PM
So what's wrong with it? Can you point me to something that says what color Velcro I'm supposed to use? If common sense were common, then everyone would have it.
Personally, I'd be more worried about the insignia coming off without me noticing it. Given my druthers, I'd prefer cloth insignia on the shoulders anyway.
The reason people have peers, commanders, and written regulations, is to compensate for their lack of common sense.
Newbie who doesn't know better? No prob. Just read the manual. Don't do anything that's NOT in there and you'll be fine. Match your uniform to the pictures, and in 99% of te cases, you'll be fine. Leave the creativity to the NEC.
Think something is "neat" or "wrong"? - I tell my people to ask BEFORE they put they thread the needle.
Show up to a meeting / mission / training with something silly like that?
"Hey, btw - nice job on the velcro, wrong color, looks bad, change it..."
And since the particular person in the above photo is a CAPTAIN, he (she?) is either not paying attention at all, or an argument against making aircrew-types Captains before they complete AFIDL-13 and some time-in-service.
A side note to Alaska, there are plenty of oter photos that show their disdain for proper uniform wear, and the creative nature of their members.
The gentleman in the seat is featured in many of the photos, and is one of their more creative individuals.
The answer is usually "...that's Alaska for you...".
Quote from: msmjr2003 on July 28, 2006, 12:26:57 AM
Be careful...that may not be white, but rather.......condensation.
Happens all the time...our squadron's cadet O-Pilot has that issue and I've seen it too on mine.
May not be white...might just look like it.
Quote from: shorning on July 27, 2006, 10:42:54 PM
So what's wrong with it? Can you point me to something that says what color Velcro I'm supposed to use? If common sense were common, then everyone would have it.
After a closer inspection, you may be right -- it may be condensation (something else that, although it happens and its out of the individuals control, doesn't help make the uniform look sharp). But as with other uniform insignia and parts -- when they wear out, I replace them. If the threads on my shouldermarks start to unravel, if my ribbons get faded or dirty with age (which is always prone to happen), if my plastic insignia starts developing some noticeable condensation... I replace them. I'm not a money tree, but I don't own the entire collection of CAP uniforms either. I keep several uniforms "ready to roll" and when something wears out, starts to look unprofessional or unkempt, then I replace it.
I wasn't picking on this individual in particular - I've seen white velcro before, I've seen condensation. I was just trying to find a representative photo. It wasn't a commentary on this particular person, nor AKWG, nor anything of that sort.
No, there's nowhere in the regs that specifies what color velcro you need to use. And you can't regulate common sense, of course, either. But I don't sew on my nametapes and grade insignia with bright red thread, either, and that's not regulated. Perhaps your mileage may vary.
And on a side note, I've never had an issue with the velcro'ed insignia coming off the flight suit or the flight jacket. The leather ASNP doesn't come off its velcro very often, accidentally, and I usually have the same experience for the other velcro'ed patches. They tend to stay put for me. Again, YMMV.
I've velco'ed my platic insignia on the flight suit using OD velcro. I've set up my entire flight suit using it for the patches too. Keeps the patches from becoming faded in the wash.
I used velcro because I saw others with the condensation problem. All the more reason for cloth insignia (which by the way was proposed and sent onto the AF for the okey dokey) .
So can anyone tell me the functional reason why CAP has velcro'ed their various patches and rank on the uniforms anyways, other than we want to look cool like real AF pilots? The same question applies to plastic-encased rank vs. using the sew on variety similar to what is used for the BDU's
Velcro is more of a pain in the ass than it is worth, especially when it comes to washing uniforms. I have yet to find a tailor locally that will sew on the plastic rank... they don't want to bend their needles. If what Smokey says is right about the AF reviewing cloth then lets hope it is approved.
Quote from: smj58501 on July 28, 2006, 10:31:03 PM
So can anyone tell me the functional reason why CAP has velcro'ed their various patches and rank on the uniforms anyways, other than we want to look cool like real AF pilots?
Excellent point - the big boys use velcro to be able to quickly sanitize their uniforms if they are shot down.
We don't need it - no one in CAP changes grade or insignia often enough in CAP to justify it.
That's why mine is sewn on.
I chose velcro....not to "sanitize" but to maintain the crisp look of the patches. Washing takes it's toll on them and they seem to fade after a bit and get ratty looking. Plus I do change my one shoulder patch at times. I'm on a special AF team as the CAP rep and wear the special patch when involved in that activity.
And the velcro for the grade insignia is the "condensation" issue. BTW the rank insignia inside the plastic is not metal....it's foil covered. That's why it look so bad with the condensation.
BTW...I'm too cool already. If I looked like a real AF pilot(although I do have one hour of F-15 time in my logbook) , then I'd have to beat the women off with a stick.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 28, 2006, 10:51:27 PM
Excellent point - the big boys use velcro to be able to quickly sanitize their uniforms if they are shot down.
Off topic, but AF aircrew sanitize
before they step to the jet.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 28, 2006, 10:51:27 PM
We don't need it - no one in CAP changes grade or insignia often enough in CAP to justify it..
Interesting aside, CAP people do promote generally faster than their AF counterparts.
Y'all are aware the NEC approved full color grade insignia on NAVY BLUE cloth for the utility uniform and new corporate navy blue flightsuit, ain'tcha?
Quote from: arajca on July 29, 2006, 12:10:21 AM
Y'all are aware the NEC approved full color grade insignia on NAVY BLUE cloth for the utility uniform and new corporate navy blue flightsuit, ain'tcha?
And where does one currently obtain the navy cloth insignia?
"It will be available from Vanguard, shortly"
Quote from: arajca on July 29, 2006, 03:29:45 AM
"It will be available from Vanguard, shortly"
And therefore doesn't exist...yet.
I recall them discussing it from the live stream... When it was brought up they were suggesting use of USN coverall insignia... Which is rather ignorant of the fact that USN/USCG/USMC insignia is not the same as USAF or CAP insignia.
Quote from: MIKE on July 29, 2006, 05:15:11 PM
I recall them discussing it from the live stream... When it was brought up they were suggesting use of USN coverall insignia... Which is rather ignorant of the fact that USN/USCG/USMC insignia is not the same as USAF or CAP insignia.
A statement made by someone on the NB/NEC was ignorant? Say it isn't so!!
Quote from: shorning on July 29, 2006, 05:49:03 PM
Quote from: MIKE on July 29, 2006, 05:15:11 PM
I recall them discussing it from the live stream... When it was brought up they were suggesting use of USN coverall insignia... Which is rather ignorant of the fact that USN/USCG/USMC insignia is not the same as USAF or CAP insignia.
A statement made by someone on the NB/NEC was ignorant? Say it isn't so!!
Obviously sich a state of affairs is simply impossible; there must be a failure in comprehension on our part, groveling underlings that we are!!
Quote from: arajca on July 29, 2006, 12:10:21 AM
Y'all are aware the NEC approved full color grade insignia on NAVY BLUE cloth for the utility uniform and new corporate navy blue flightsuit, ain'tcha?
Is that the change Smokey alluded too below that is awaiting AF approval??
Quote from: Smokey on July 28, 2006, 08:42:38 PM
I've velco'ed my platic insignia on the flight suit using OD velcro. I've set up my entire flight suit using it for the patches too. Keeps the patches from becoming faded in the wash.
I used velcro because I saw others with the condensation problem. All the more reason for cloth insignia (which by the way was proposed and sent onto the AF for the okey dokey) .
No, Sean....the dark blue insignia is CAP-distinctive for the dark blue CAP-distinctive suit... I suspect the consideration is being made with respect to the ultarmarine blue versions for the sage green stuff (which we currently don't do.)
Actually, I believe the dark-blue cloth was approved for the sage green flight suit as wel, in lieu of allowing subdued grade.
Man would that look stupid. what would be wrong w/ dark green and white, instead of blue?
Quote from: Eclipse on July 31, 2006, 06:31:33 PM
Actually, I believe the dark-blue cloth was approved for the sage green flight suit as wel, in lieu of allowing subdued grade.
It might be waiting for USAF approval, but so far they're only authorized on the blue bags.
Quote from: CAP/CC Letter, Changes to CAPM 39-1, CAP Uniform Manuale. Embroidered grade insignia on flight suits. Embroidered grade insignia, as
well as the currently authorized plastic encased insignia, is now authorized on the CAP
distinctive flight suits. Ultramarine blue grade insignia will be worn on the ultramarine blue
NOMEX flight suit. Dark blue embroidered grade insignia will be worn on the dark blue
utility uniform and new NOMEX flight suit. The dark blue grade insignia will be available
shortly from Vanguard.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 31, 2006, 06:31:33 PM
Man would that look stupid. what would be wrong w/ dark green and white, instead of blue?
We'd get confused with squids and coasties.
Actually, the embroidered was approved for the blue zoom bags...but the embroidered for the green flight suits is pending...note the following policy directive from Maj Gen Pineda dated 15 Mar 2006....
2. Two additional uniform items were approved by the National Board but will require Air Force approval prior to implementation. We are currently requesting Air Force approval to wear the Gortex parka with a CAP distinctive ultramarine blue tab and embroidered grade insignia for the AF-style flight suit.