Felons Supervising Minors: Is It Legal?

[LittleIronPilot]

In reading over this thread it's readily apparent that many CAP members want simple black and white rules which require no judgment and allow no exercise of discretion.  I guess this is why I really don't fit into CAP very well and have pretty much left it behind in my life.   

BINGO!

A felony is a felony? Oh how nice it is to live a life where people fit neatly into boxes.

BTW...I too am a former Law Enforcement Officer and have seen how EASY it is for someone to get a non-violent felony. Your state is not like my state, some acts here are felonies that are not there.

To assume that ANYONE with a felony is not worth of CAP is laughable.

[LittleIronPilot]

In reading over this thread it's readily apparent that many CAP members want simple black and white rules which require no judgment and allow no exercise of discretion.  I guess this is why I really don't fit into CAP very well and have pretty much left it behind in my life.   

It's not a matter of wanting simple black and white rules, it's a matter that simple black and white rules exist. There are also existing laws. Failure to obey existing laws isn't only unethical, it's criminal.

A lot of people don't like rules, regulations and laws. Obedience without repercussion isn't an option. CAP doesn't get to decide whether or not we follow them. Saying that CAP needs the discretion on whether or not to comply is just wrong. Period. There are existing rules, and there are consequences for not following them.

If you decided not to follow the rules, that's your option. You made the best choice for all concerned by leaving.

Hawk...I guarantee you that if you were a Georgia resident I could arrest you on laws you have never even HEARD of.

[DrJbdm]

Lets look at it this way, would the Armed Forces take any of these people?  Lets completely base our membership criteria on what the Armed Forces is doing...esp the Air Force. I'm not talking age or disability criteria, only criminal or other background check criteria.

  If the Military isn't taking them, then neither should CAP. As a part of the Air Force family we should strive to be as close to them in our standards for membership as the law will allow us to be.

[0]

Lets look at it this way, would the Armed Forces take any of these people?  Lets completely base our membership criteria on what the Armed Forces is doing...esp the Air Force. I'm not talking age or disability criteria, only criminal or other background check criteria.

  If the Military isn't taking them, then neither should CAP. As a part of the Air Force family we should strive to be as close to them in our standards for membership as the law will allow us to be.

Well given that criteria we'd be letting just about anyone in.  The military is allowing more people with criminal records in.  But also this is why we have membership boards. 

[Hawk200]

In reading over this thread it's readily apparent that many CAP members want simple black and white rules which require no judgment and allow no exercise of discretion.  I guess this is why I really don't fit into CAP very well and have pretty much left it behind in my life.   

BINGO!

A felony is a felony? Oh how nice it is to live a life where people fit neatly into boxes.

BTW...I too am a former Law Enforcement Officer and have seen how EASY it is for someone to get a non-violent felony. Your state is not like my state, some acts here are felonies that are not there.

To assume that ANYONE with a felony is not worth of CAP is laughable.

I didn't say anyone with a felony is not worthy of CAP. The point brought up is whether or not it is legal for a felon to work with a minor. You do remember that's how the thread started, right?

If there is a law that says that felons don't work with minors, then that is a law, and CAP has no discretion whatsoever to allow it. Your statement seems to indicate a belief that CAP can ignore any given law that they so choose under a "commander's discretion". It doesn't work that way.

Hawk...I guarantee you that if you were a Georgia resident I could arrest you on laws you have never even HEARD of.

I believe it. With our legal system, eventually everyone ends a criminal. But that doesn't change the fact that we don't get to ignore law. We don't like those laws, you get them changed. There's ways to do it.

[Hawk200]

Well given that criteria we'd be letting just about anyone in.  The military is allowing more people with criminal records in.  But also this is why we have membership boards. 

Incorrect. Some branches allow waivers, but not all. I know the Army Guard doesn't, even though the active duty does. I've seen our recruiters turn people away. The Reserve might, they tend to follow Federal guidlines.

I do know that Criminal Domestic Violence convictions are not waiverable. They don't allow someone to carry a weapon, so they are disqualified from any military service. There are some things that you can't get in on at all.

Last I knew the Marine Corps hasn't accepted anyone in the last few years with a felony. Misdemeanors require a rather extensive waiver. I don't think the Air Force allows it. Don't know about the Navy, or the Coast Guard.

[lordmonar]

Lets look at it this way, would the Armed Forces take any of these people?  Lets completely base our membership criteria on what the Armed Forces is doing...esp the Air Force. I'm not talking age or disability criteria, only criminal or other background check criteria.

  If the Military isn't taking them, then neither should CAP. As a part of the Air Force family we should strive to be as close to them in our standards for membership as the law will allow us to be.

There was a recent article in the AF times about the Army particually asking for and getting waivers for everything from DUIs, Drug Offenses, Assualts, Vehicular Manslauter and even two Homocides.

So that is not a very useful.

As it is....the current system should be good.  We send in the finger print cards....if they get rejected we for a felony we submit a waiver.

[mikeylikey]

There was a recent article in the AF times about the Army particularly asking for and getting waivers for everything from DUIs, Drug Offenses, Assaults, Vehicular Manslaughter and even two Homicides.

If the actual numbers were really known.......everyone would be shocked.  The only way the Army met it's recruiting goals were with waivers for FY07 (both medical and criminal).  The other factor that played a role was the increase in enlistment age.  As it stands right now, if it were not for the recent incentives added for Captains to stay in the Army, we would be lacking many Company grade Officers. (Mikey took the cash bonus even though I already knew I was not leaving the service)  The Army is screwed people wise. 

As far as the military taking felons, I have no problem as long as they are not violent offenders.  I would even go as far as making convicted felons who so choose to serve their time in the military (without pay of course). 

There is a HUGE difference between a rapist and a person who got a felony conviction for not paying taxes (just my example to show violent and non violent offenders). 

As far as the poster above saying we should follow the military lead on waivers......perhaps we should.  Let the non violent felons in and the violent felons stay out. 

[0]

As far as the military taking felons, I have no problem as long as they are not violent offenders.  I would even go as far as making convicted felons who so choose to serve their time in the military (without pay of course). 

There is a HUGE difference between a rapist and a person who got a felony conviction for not paying taxes (just my example to show violent and non violent offenders). 

As far as the poster above saying we should follow the military lead on waivers......perhaps we should.  Let the non violent felons in and the violent felons stay out. 

I agree with that.  Plus it will also give felons good training that when they're time is up that they can use and make something of themselves other than committing crimes.

[Gunner C]

As far as the military taking felons, I have no problem as long as they are not violent offenders.  I would even go as far as making convicted felons who so choose to serve their time in the military (without pay of course). 

There is a HUGE difference between a rapist and a person who got a felony conviction for not paying taxes (just my example to show violent and non violent offenders). 

As far as the poster above saying we should follow the military lead on waivers......perhaps we should.  Let the non violent felons in and the violent felons stay out. 

I agree with that.  Plus it will also give felons good training that when they're time is up that they can use and make something of themselves other than committing crimes.

Since the military is the folks who have to put up with him, there's a good chance that they're pretty good at weighing who's a good risk and who isn't.  Most employers will consider employing a felon - a decision based on the facts of the crime is the best and most equitable way to deal with it.  I had a guy on my team who was a convicted felon - turned out to be quite a hero in Mogadishu.

GC

[Flying Pig]

As far as the military taking felons, I have no problem as long as they are not violent offenders.  I would even go as far as making convicted felons who so choose to serve their time in the military (without pay of course). 

There is a HUGE difference between a rapist and a person who got a felony conviction for not paying taxes (just my example to show violent and non violent offenders). 

As far as the poster above saying we should follow the military lead on waivers......perhaps we should.  Let the non violent felons in and the violent felons stay out. 

I agree with that.  Plus it will also give felons good training that when they're time is up that they can use and make something of themselves other than committing crimes.

I wouldnt mind giving people military service, but PLEASE pay them. It would be near impossible to live in the military without pay.  Your just asking for a guy/gal to fail, Go AWOL/UA, etc.  Having been a Plt. Sgt. myself, military life is hard enough, I dont want to have to deal with a guy who cant even go buy a soda. 

[MIKE]

This has drifted long enough.