Mistaken for Active Air Force?

[MIKE]

IMO, military salutes in civvies/non-military uniforms looks goofy.  Appropriate verbal greeting should be good enough for CAPs purposes when one or both parties is not in uniform, or when a salute would otherwise be inappropriate.

[mikeylikey]

Do you think that is an Army vs. Air Force difference?  I have no problem saluting my AD superiors if one of us isn't in uniform.  I have just not seen it done or even as an unwritten rule.  But you are certainly right that salutes are free and there is no harm in showing C+Cs.

I do think it is a cultural difference between AF and Army.  Even Marines salute Officers that are not in uniform.  However, When I go to gym, the Airman at the gate salutes me after seeing the DOD sticker on the car and my ID card.  So, there I am not too sure.

I don't know why it would be goofy to salute an Officer if you recognize him or her and they or you are not in uniform, it is all in the end about respect.

[lordmonar]

IMO, military salutes in civvies/non-military uniforms looks goofy.  Appropriate verbal greeting should be good enough for CAPs purposes when one or both parties is not in uniform, or when a salute would otherwise be inappropriate.

Just like on active duty....If I'm not in uniform I don't salute.

For the record....CAP considers the USAF style, the Gray and Whites and the Blue and White, a three versions of the flight suit and the BDU and BBDU uniforms to be "military style"....so polos and corporates you don't salute in....everthing else you do.

[DC]

IMO, military salutes in civvies/non-military uniforms looks goofy.  Appropriate verbal greeting should be good enough for CAPs purposes when one or both parties is not in uniform, or when a salute would otherwise be inappropriate.

Just like on active duty....If I'm not in uniform I don't salute.

For the record....CAP considers the USAF style, the Gray and Whites and the Blue and White, a three versions of the flight suit and the BDU and BBDU uniforms to be "military style"....so polos and corporates you don't salute in....everthing else you do.

Aren't the Grey and Whites, TPU and BBDUs all considered corporate? My general rule is to salute if rank and a regulation cover are worn. So Grey and Whites I don't salute, but the TPU and BBDUs (if worn with a cover) I do.

[mikeylikey]

Just like on active duty....If I'm not in uniform I don't salute.

Are you AF? 

If you walked past an Officer coming out of the PX in your CoC, whom you recognize, you wouldn't throw a salute, because you are not in uniform?  Military courtesy and customs don't end at the end of the duty day, surely don't end because it is the weekend, and most assuredly don't end because one person is not in uniform.  Going on this line of reasoning, you must also believe you wouldn't be held accountable under UCMJ for actions you took part in out of uniform too right?

It must just be an Army thing, but everywhere I have been the saying goes "you are never off duty".  Perhaps it is just an Officer thing then.  I remember getting the speech that I had to be clean shaven if just going to the PX on a Sunday, and my Commander would "be jacked" if he caught any of the Officers unshaven and looking sloppy.

So my question lordmonar......if you are not in uniform and you receive an order from an officer, do you obey?  OR if you are in uniform and you receive an order from an Officer not in uniform, do you obey?  The uniform does not make the Officer, the rank does.  IF you know an Officers rank, you are just being petty by not adhering to centuries of custom.

[RiverAux]

As far as CAP goes, it seems to me that initating a salute while you are not in uniform just looks stupid.  You should still address them correctly, of course.  Now, if I receive a salute from someone who is out of uniform and I am in uniform, I would return it.  I'll think they look silly starting it, but I will return the respect they've given me. 

Frankly, its hard enough getting seniors to salute when they are in uniform, that I don't think having them salute while out of it is an issue.  Maybe for the cadets though. 

[adamblank]

Just like on active duty....If I'm not in uniform I don't salute.

Are you AF? 

If you walked past an Officer coming out of the PX in your CoC, whom you recognize, you wouldn't throw a salute, because you are not in uniform?  Military courtesy and customs don't end at the end of the duty day, surely don't end because it is the weekend, and most assuredly don't end because one person is not in uniform.  Going on this line of reasoning, you must also believe you wouldn't be held accountable under UCMJ for actions you took part in out of uniform too right?

It must just be an Army thing, but everywhere I have been the saying goes "you are never off duty".  Perhaps it is just an Officer thing then.  I remember getting the speech that I had to be clean shaven if just going to the PX on a Sunday, and my Commander would "be jacked" if he caught any of the Officers unshaven and looking sloppy.

So my question lordmonar......if you are not in uniform and you receive an order from an officer, do you obey?  OR if you are in uniform and you receive an order from an Officer not in uniform, do you obey?  The uniform does not make the Officer, the rank does.  IF you know an Officers rank, you are just being petty by not adhering to centuries of custom.

I know this question wasn't addressed to me but I feel like maybe something is being left out in the translation.  If my SQ/CC or any other superior officer went by me in either civilian clothes I think I would actually get spoken to if I saluted them when we weren't both in uniform.  Its not a judgement on if I thought it was appropriate, but what would happen if it was done in the AF culture.  I think the best answer is to chat with an O-5 type and see what they say on it.

[mikeylikey]

^ Guess it is an Air Force thing then. 

[JoeTomasone]

Some time ago I read (and it might have been in CAPP 151 or its predecessor, or my Cadet Leadership book from a zillion years ago, not sure anymore) that a salute is the military form of greeting (extending to the days when knights raised their faceshields in greeting) and that it is NEVER inappropriate to salute. 

That being said, I think that when the initiator is OUT of uniform that a greeting is sufficient ("Good morning, sir").   However, when the initiator is in uniform, I don't think it matters whether the recipient is in or out of uniform - if you recognize them as someone you would salute in uniform, then I think it should be done.

If someone salutes you, return the salute - no matter the circumstances.  To not return it is to effectively ignore the greeting - a snub, if you will.

[SJFedor]

Ive never been confused for RM and thanked or saluted by anyone or anything good... however...


one day while i was at my job a lady threw a handfull of pepples at me, called me a baby killer and said I should go back to the Marines and not show my faceamong the public. I literally had to run like hell for my engine because she chased me screaming obsenities. Thing is though, I was in a blue station shirt with the SOL and the maltese cross everywhere and black EMS pants. I was also wearing a black ball cap with EMT on it. I live in IL and the closest Marine Barracks is probably in Chicago at NS Great Lakes. Three hours north of me.     

Does IL have state laws that make it a felony to assault a healthcare worker?

[nesagsar]

Not that I know of. For sure you wont get any sympathy from the cops though.

[Ozzy]

Well I had quite a few times where people thought I was in the military. Every once in a while I get someone that comes up to me that says "Bless you for you're service" or "Thank you for all that you've done for us". The first few times that happened to me I thanked them but told them that I was in CAP and what it was about but that just seemed to confuse them, so I've started just to say "Thank you very much for supporting our armed forces". But probably the funniest was after a Color Guard I did in AFJROTC a few years ago, a little kid came up to me and asked if I was the owner of the Navy. I told him since he was just a lil kid, that I was part of an Air Force program.

[Pylon]

But probably the funniest was after a Color Guard I did in AFJROTC a few years ago, a little kid came up to me and asked if I was the owner of the Navy.

Haha, hilarious!  That's a really unique and good one to remember.  So... you mean to tell us that you don't own the Navy?

[♠SARKID♠]

But probably the funniest was after a Color Guard I did in AFJROTC a few years ago, a little kid came up to me and asked if I was the owner of the Navy.

Ow man, I choked on a wheat thin when I read that!  Hillarious!   

[JayT]

Well I had quite a few times where people thought I was in the military. Every once in a while I get someone that comes up to me that says "Bless you for you're service" or "Thank you for all that you've done for us". The first few times that happened to me I thanked them but told them that I was in CAP and what it was about but that just seemed to confuse them, so I've started just to say "Thank you very much for supporting our armed forces". But probably the funniest was after a Color Guard I did in AFJROTC a few years ago, a little kid came up to me and asked if I was the owner of the Navy. I told him since he was just a lil kid, that I was part of an Air Force program.

Sure you did Ozzy!

[nesagsar]

You should have said this:

"No I dont own the navy but if you can keep a secret....*I'm Batman*"

[lordmonar]

Just like on active duty....If I'm not in uniform I don't salute.

Are you AF? 

If you walked past an Officer coming out of the PX in your CoC, whom you recognize, you wouldn't throw a salute, because you are not in uniform?  Military courtesy and customs don't end at the end of the duty day, surely don't end because it is the weekend, and most assuredly don't end because one person is not in uniform.  Going on this line of reasoning, you must also believe you wouldn't be held accountable under UCMJ for actions you took part in out of uniform too right?

Yes I am AF...and if you look at military courtisies you don't HAVE to salute when not in uniform....ever....If I saw one of my officers at the BX I would say.."Good Day Sir".

I never said just because I'm not in uniform I'm not under the UCMJ...but military curitysies say...in civilain cloths you don't have to salute.

So my question lordmonar......if you are not in uniform and you receive an order from an officer, do you obey?  OR if you are in uniform and you receive an order from an Officer not in uniform, do you obey?  The uniform does not make the Officer, the rank does.  IF you know an Officers rank, you are just being petty by not adhering to centuries of custom.

Yes to both questions....but I don't salute him.  I don't know aobut centuries of custome sir...but in my 22 years of service...I have never been told that I have to render a salute while I was wearing civilian cloths.

[lordmonar]

^ Guess it is an Air Force thing then. 

It's not even an army thing..

4-14.     Salutes are not required when:

- Indoors, unless reporting to an officer or when on duty as a guard.
- A prisoner.
- Saluting is obviously inappropriate. In any case not covered by specific instructions, render the salute.
- Either the senior or the subordinate is wearing civilian clothes.

So maybe it is just a mikeylikey thing.

[mikeylikey]

^ Must just be my thing I guess then.  Terrible of me to show respect to those deserving it.  Shame on me.   

[nesagsar]

Bad Mikey, no beef stew in your MRE.