US Military facing Chaplain Crisis

[Private Investigator]

BTW

Happy Easter   

[Chappie]

For the record .... only CAP Chaplains who meet the academic requirements of an active duty/reserve/guard chaplain (72 hour graduate degree in theology or pastoral care from an accredited institution) can serve as a "force multiplier". 

Sir, isn't that what most major denominations require for ordination?

Not all major denominations require a Masters/MDiv for ordination.  Several denominations have their own schools where Theological/Pastoral ministries are offered in the Bachelors program (I am one of those guys).   That is one of the reasons for the waiver clause for CAP Chaplains...an accredited Bachelors plus 5 years of full-time pastoral ministry.

[Chappie]

Just some additional info on the Chaplain Crisis:  http://www.stripes.com/news/troops-loss-will-be-felt-when-air-force-cuts-chaplain-corps-by-15-percent-1.102746

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2010/11/air-force-to-cut-chaplains-112710w/

[CAPSGT]

So I know I'm a little late joining this thread, but I thought it was interesting to point out that one of the Army Chaplains in that video (the CPT at 54 seconds in and again towards the end) is coincidentally a CAP Lt Col. 

[lordmonar]

I don't really understand the problem.

When the USAF needs MQ-1 maintainers....they hire them.
When the USAF needs security police for their bases....they hire them.

If the USAF needs preists......hire them.

[PHall]

I don't really understand the problem.

When the USAF needs MQ-1 maintainers....they hire them.
When the USAF needs security police for their bases....they hire them.

If the USAF needs preists......hire them.

The repeal of DADT hasn't helped either.

[FARRIER]

I don't really understand the problem.

When the USAF needs MQ-1 maintainers....they hire them.
When the USAF needs security police for their bases....they hire them.

If the USAF needs preists......hire them.

That makes sense, that isn't allowed! : - )

[bflynn]

If the USAF needs preists......hire them.

I know in the case of the Catholic Church, they are also short on priests, so Bishops are ordering priests to leave the military to serve in local parishes.

This has been a developing problem for a long time, it isn't about any recent changes.

[lordmonar]

If the USAF needs preists......hire them.

I know in the case of the Catholic Church, they are also short on priests, so Bishops are ordering priests to leave the military to serve in local parishes.

This has been a developing problem for a long time, it isn't about any recent changes.

So the real problem is not that the military is facing a chaplain crisis....but the Catholic Church is suffering a preist crisis.....

[bflynn]

Yes, the RCC is short of priests too.

But the issue isn't limited to just priests, it's across the board.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

bflynn is right.

It's not just the RCC.  My own church, the Lutheran Church (Missouri Synod) has a profound clergy shortage.  I think all the historical "mainline" denominations are.

PHall:  What does the repeal of DADT have to do with this specific issue?

[MSG Mac]

PHall:  What does the repeal of DADT have to do with this specific issue?

He's implying that clergy in general and the Catholic priesthood in particular are homosexual.

[johnnyb47]

PHall:  What does the repeal of DADT have to do with this specific issue?

He's implying that clergy in general and the Catholic priesthood in particular are homosexual.

Or perhaps that repealing DADT has created an unattractive environment in which a person who believes homosexuality is a sin would have to work? Thereby making it that much more difficult to recruit both locally AND from the top down of a religious organization with those beliefs.
Not that I do or do not believe this myself.... just saying his comment may have been a LITTLE less sinister than what you were thinking.

[bflynn]

Or perhaps that repealing DADT has created an unattractive environment in which a person who believes homosexuality is a sin would have to work? Thereby making it that much more difficult to recruit both locally AND from the top down of a religious organization with those beliefs.

That's the way I read it.  However, the decline has been happening for over 10 years, so the statement isn't supported by the data.  At best you might make a claim that since the repeal of DADT, there as been an acceleration of the decline, but I have no data for that.

Perhaps a general decline in the interest in religion in our country?  I do find it worrying that service members would not have sufficient chaplains.  It's never been an easy job.

[Chappie]

PHall:  What does the repeal of DADT have to do with this specific issue?

He's implying that clergy in general and the Catholic priesthood in particular are homosexual.

Or perhaps that repealing DADT has created an unattractive environment in which a person who believes homosexuality is a sin would have to work? Thereby making it that much more difficult to recruit both locally AND from the top down of a religious organization with those beliefs.
Not that I do or do not believe this myself.... just saying his comment may have been a LITTLE less sinister than what you were thinking.

^^ Spot on remark. ^^  Remember that chaplains are endorsed by the faith group/denomination.  One is ordained by the faith group/denomination and must maintain their loyalty to the tenets of belief of said group.  The ordained minister is endorsed by (approved) by his/her faith group to serve as an AD/reserve/guard and CAP Chaplain.   Many chaplains in both the military and CAP have expressed concern about the government mandating how the chaplain responds to the repeal of DADT policy (i.e."Are we mandated to perform same-sex marriages as Chaplains if our faith group/denomination disapproves of the practive?").   Given the choice -- it is much easier to serve in the confines of your local parish setting than it would be to serve as a chaplain in military or in CAP.   The repeal of the DADT has definitely  raised questions when trying to recruit chaplains -- which was already a chore.   

[Chappie]

I don't really understand the problem.

When the USAF needs MQ-1 maintainers....they hire them.
When the USAF needs security police for their bases....they hire them.

If the USAF needs preists......hire them.

^^Perzactly.^^  The budget cutbacks facing the USAF Chaplain Corps hasn't helped the shortage of Chaplains.   The CAP Chaplain Corps was impacted in 2001 when the USAF eliminated the National Staff Chaplain assigned to CAP-USAF at the NHQ.  At first the CAP Corporation hired a Director for the Chaplain Corps to handle the day to day...week in/week out administration of the program.  In 2005, the position was eliminated in favor of letting the volunteer side of the house administer the program with a paid NHQ employee in the office.  The CAP Chief of Chaplains was/is responsible for what the corporate director duties.   An overwhelming task to say the least.  While some of our CAP Chaplains serve as "force multipliers"....bless them for that, I am very content to fulfill my primary appointment as a CAP Chaplain.  We have nearly 50% (49.8%) of our squadrons that do not have either a Chaplain or Character Development Instructor.  It is that shortage that I am trying to address on the left coast as I work with Wing Chaplains and Wing Commanders

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I would imagine that the Navy would really have chaplain shortages.  After all, their "skypilots" have to provide chaplaincy to the Navy, Marine Corps and Coast Guard (and USPHS and NOAA Corps?).

I did know that chaplains cannot be made to break their ordination vows/denominational rules.  In my church we practice "close(d) communion" and a LC-MS chaplain cannot be ordered to go against that.  The same would go for a same-gender blessing, I would think.

It's actually becoming a little bit of a problem for Lutheran chaplains specifically, since doctrinally the Evangelical Lutheran Church In America (ELCA; the nation's largest Lutheran denomination) have gone ahead with openly gay pastors and blessing same-gender marriages (since 2009).  Recently the LC-MS (reluctantly) ended the long-standing agreement with the ELCA about assisting one another with military chaplaincy issues because of that.  The smaller Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod does not permit its clergy to be chaplains because of "fellowship" issues.

Are there Unitarian chaplains in the Armed Forces?  They cover such a wide spectrum of belief (from atheistic to Wiccan practitioners to relatively few traditional Christians) that I don't know where they'd fit on the spectrum.

Also, what about Eastern Orthodox?  I had a professor in college who was from the former USSR.  He was Russian Orthodox and they followed a slightly different calendar.

[Chaplaindon]

As a now-retired CAP Chaplain, I offer to this discussion an additional reason why Chaplaincy numbers (as well as clergy in general) have been declining for some time now.

An increasing number of clergy candidates, those entering the process for "ordination" (or whatever it is called in a particular faith tradition) are older, so-called second career. In other words they have been in a secular career field for some time prior to answering their call to the ministry. Average ages for entering seminary students likewise are rising each year. At the seminary I attended, the year I entered the average age was 39.5.

This fact can have at least two -obvious- impacts on the military chaplaincy.

1.  As with me, by the time a candidate andswers her/his call, they may be too old to enter the military as a chaplain. I know that at various times branch services have raised the age limit to as high as 60 (maybe higher) for Roman Catholic chaplain candidates. Nevertheless, there is a smaller population of available candidates, especially younger first career ones. Fewer age-acceptable candidates, fewer chaplains.

2.  As the entry age for a chaplain (or a civilian cleric) goes up the potential career length necessarily decreases. Whereas a 25 year old, new seminary grad, might have a potential of 35 years prior to age 60, a 42 year old, as I was when I completed my MDiv, will have a much shorter potential career. Shorter careers increases the need for clergy.

I really doubt that DADT has, or will have, as substantive effect on the size of the military chaplaincy, since no chaplain is required to subordinate the teachings of her/his ecclesiatical endorser (the denomination) as a condition of their chaplaincy appointment. Rather it is the opposite. One is granted the privilege of serving as a chaplain (CAP chaplaincy included) BY their denomination or faith group.

For example, as a United Methodist elder, even while serving as a CAP Chaplain (or hypothetically as a military chaplain), I'd be contrained to follow the rules of the UMC. For example, UMC clergy are forbidden to conduct same-sex marriages (regardless of their own personal beliefs on the matter). A UMC military chaplain therefore could not be forced to conduct such a wedding in a military capacity either. The rules of their endorsing agency will prevail, or else they lose that endorsement and have to leave the service.

I hope/pray that the chaplain shortages are resolved. This is a unique and needed ministry that cannot be permitted to wither away.

[Major Lord]

I would imagine that the Navy would really have chaplain shortages.  After all, their "skypilots" have to provide chaplaincy to the Navy, Marine Corps and Coast Guard (and USPHS and NOAA Corps?).

I did know that chaplains cannot be made to break their ordination vows/denominational rules.  In my church we practice "close(d) communion" and a LC-MS chaplain cannot be ordered to go against that.  The same would go for a same-gender blessing, I would think.

It's actually becoming a little bit of a problem for Lutheran chaplains specifically, since doctrinally the Evangelical Lutheran Church In America (ELCA; the nation's largest Lutheran denomination) have gone ahead with openly gay pastors and blessing same-gender marriages (since 2009).  Recently the LC-MS (reluctantly) ended the long-standing agreement with the ELCA about assisting one another with military chaplaincy issues because of that.  The smaller Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod does not permit its clergy to be chaplains because of "fellowship" issues.

Are there Unitarian chaplains in the Armed Forces?  They cover such a wide spectrum of belief (from atheistic to Wiccan practitioners to relatively few traditional Christians) that I don't know where they'd fit on the spectrum.

Also, what about Eastern Orthodox?  I had a professor in college who was from the former USSR.  He was Russian Orthodox and they followed a slightly different calendar.

Eastern Orthodox  and a number of other "rites" (Byzantine, Coptic, etc.) are considered by Roman Catholics to have valid and licit priests, who are deemed acceptable to consecrate the species in a Mass. (give communion) Roman Catholics are not permitted by canon law from participating in church services where some form of communion is carried out with bread and wine ( or fruit juice) . They can of course attend non-denominational services, but technically, their participation has limitations. This puts Catholics in a pickle, since the central practice of their religion requires participation in a mass, no non-priest can serve as an alternative, whereas, most other religions are fine with "outsiders" participating. Non-Catholics ( or the nearest metric equivalent) are not permitted to receive communion. And to address Phil's bi-curious interests, a priest cannot technically give communion to an unrepentant, practicing homosexual , so the repeal of DADT creates a bit of a problem. The RCC in America is getting a lot of its priests from South America and Africa, and in many cases, paying for their education in their home country, where its usually a lot less expensive. I don't think non-citizen chaplains are going to happen, unless perhaps they work as civilian contractors ( Blackwater Chaplains? A new marketing opportunity!)

Major Lord

[bflynn]

the repeal of DADT creates a bit of a problem.

It does, but that isn't the reason for the decline in military chaplains.  The number of chaplains has been declining for over 10 years.