Should Senior Members Enourage or Discourage Cadets from Entering Military?

[Johnny Yuma]

Face it, the cadets aren't volunteering to be in CAP, donning USAF type uniforms, learning military drill and doing what we do if there wasn't an interest in military life to some degree.

I've seen cadets who were high speed, low drag members of the cadet program that simply weren't cut out for military service. At the same time I know of one former cadet, never made it out of the cadet NCO ranks, who's well into a long Army career of flying Chinooks as a warrant officer.

I'd never discourage any cadet from doing anything short of being immoral, illegal or incredibly stupid.

[flyguy06]

So, I probably wouldn't invite recruters to speak. But, I would definitely invite military officers from each branch to speak.

There are recruiters that are for recruiting Officers too.  When my wife was initially interested in ROTC, she went and talked to the one in our area.  There was only 1 in our whole state for the Air Force, but he was very helpful.

My wife got his contact information from the enlisted recruiter and had to make an appointment.  I don't see any reason that they wouldn't come out and talk - except that it isn't the target audience at 15...

Your wife probablt already had her degree. The only way a recrutier can recruti officers is if they already have a degree.

[Cecil DP]

Every citizen and resident of this country owes a debt to their nation. How they do it is up to them, but we as leaders in this organization should be helping them in finding a way to make that repayment. Too many people in the 18-22 age group don't have a clue as to what they are doing or where they'll be in 5 years. If they choose a military career, help them make that decision, by answering questions, and making sure that they ask the right ones when they meet a recruiter. If they decide to further their education make sure that they are aware that the average student changes major 3 times before graduation and to be flexible in their goals.
The objection to recruiters coming in to the squadron, but allowing Academy spokesmen to come in is strange because the academy people are recruiters also, even though they are called liasons.

[Spike]

As a Squadron Commander, I allow recruiters to make presentations 1 hour before we start the meeting.  We tell the Cadets in advance that if they are interested to be there 1 hour before.  PERIOD.  We have limited amount of time each week and have many things to accomplish.

I want to expose my Cadets to the military, and offer that opportunity.  I do invite military members to give presentations on military life, duties, jobs, careers and activities they are involved with during CAP meetings but before hand tell them they are not there to recruit, just inform.

It works out perfect.  I have a great relationship with the Academy Liaison Officers, ROTC folks, and recruiters from all branches.  We jointly offer shadowing to all Cadets, and other opportunities that these Cadets would not get anywhere else. 

PLUS I have so many boxes of recruiting junk (pens, water bottles, notepads and shirts it is ridiculous!!)   

[flyguy06]

Every citizen and resident of this country owes a debt to their nation. How they do it is up to them, but we as leaders in this organization should be helping them in finding a way to make that repayment. Too many people in the 18-22 age group don't have a clue as to what they are doing or where they'll be in 5 years. If they choose a military career, help them make that decision, by answering questions, and making sure that they ask the right ones when they meet a recruiter. If they decide to further their education make sure that they are aware that the average student changes major 3 times before graduation and to be flexible in their goals.
The objection to recruiters coming in to the squadron, but allowing Academy spokesmen to come in is strange because the academy people are recruiters also, even though they are called liasons.

You are getting posts mixed up. I fully support recruiters. I said I try and promote officer programs over enlisting.


There are a lot of retired Vietnam era vets on here arent there?

[JK657]

Reading this post has me all riled up!

The question is should senior members encourage or discourage cadets from entering the military, not about recruiters. While programs like CAP, AFJROTC,etc are geared towards making and educating better citizens an implied goal is the possible recruitment of dedicated young people into service of the nation. If senior members have some issue with cadets entering the military they probably should start looking for another place to donate their time other than the Official Auxiliary to the US Air Force. I'm sure there are plenty of Sheriff's Posses or SAR teams that would love their experience.

I'm just sayin......

[Spike]

^ You are 100% WRONG.  We are not recruiting for the Military.  Have you forgotten that the Cadet Program (although huge) is only one (1) of Three CAP Programs.  Nowhere does it say CAP's mission (implied or otherwise) is to provide men and women for the Military Services. 

Your response reinforces the image some Mothers have brought to me.  The "I want little Billy or Suzie to Join CAP, but I am scared they will be sent to Iraq".

My Job is to provide a good solid education to Cadets based in military traditions, provide means of response to my local community, and educate my members and the general public about Aerospace. 

If they added the "provide x amount of raw recruits for military service", I would quit.  I say that, and I am in the Military.

Just because an organization uses military customs, terminology and appears to be military, DOES NOT mean it is.

For you to say "go join another organization is both arrogant and ignorant and downright disrespectful to those of us doing the best we can.  If you brought your attitude to my unit, you would not last very long.   

[AirAux]

Spike, I think you need to reread his post.  If anybody is coming off as arrogant and egotistical, it is you.  Lighten up.  Your attitude wouldn't last in my squadron at all.

[JK657]

Despite the tone of Spikes post I will try to reply as professionally as possible:

^ You are 100% WRONG.  We are not recruiting for the Military.  Have you forgotten that the Cadet Program (although huge) is only one (1) of Three CAP Programs.  Nowhere does it say CAP's mission (implied or otherwise) is to provide men and women for the Military Services."

Response: I understand CAPs three missions. What I said in my post is that an IMPLIED goal would be the POSSIBLE encouragement of cadets to serve our nation in one of the armed forces. If the Air Force wasn't interested in CAP cadets why would they offer increased rank for the completion of certain cadet achievements.

Your response reinforces the image some Mothers have brought to me.  The "I want little Billy or Suzie to Join CAP, but I am scared they will be sent to Iraq".

Response: If there are parents out there who somehow think their 14 year old kid is going to be sent to Iraq due to membership in CAP we need to educate them about CAP and its role in our nation.

My Job is to provide a good solid education to Cadets based in military traditions, provide means of response to my local community, and educate my members and the general public about Aerospace.  If they added the "provide x amount of raw recruits for military service", I would quit.  I say that, and I am in the Military.

Response: Holy Cow, no one is saying that all of a sudden CAP senior members are now recruiters and have to sign up recruits to make mission.

Just because an organization uses military customs, terminology and appears to be military, DOES NOT mean it is.

For you to say "go join another organization is both arrogant and ignorant and downright disrespectful to those of us doing the best we can.  If you brought your attitude to my unit, you would not last very long.

Response: We all know that CAP is not the military. It is the Official Auxiliary to the US Air Force, nothing more, nothing less.  My recommendation that people leave and join another group is aimed at those who DISCOURAGE cadets from joining the armed forces. As a senior member you are not obligated to recruit, encourage, solicit, or in any way persuade a cadet to join the military BUT if a cadet was interested in joining you shouldn't DISCOURAGE them from joining. If a senior member were so against joining the military as to encourage a cadet not to join, maybe they should look for another group to participate in.

If you'd like to discuss this further I'm happy to take it to PM... or if you are close to CA maybe we can have a drink and talk it over, I'll buy the first round. 

[EMT-83]

From an email received yesterday from the mother of one of our cadets...

"I truly believe that his experiences with CAP better prepared him for Norwich, and the Air Force ROTC, than anything else. I appreciate your work with the squadron and hope you continue your good work that benefits our next generation of leaders."

Just though it was worth sharing.

[flyguy06]

Reading this post has me all riled up!

The question is should senior members encourage or discourage cadets from entering the military, not about recruiters. While programs like CAP, AFJROTC,etc are geared towards making and educating better citizens an implied goal is the possible recruitment of dedicated young people into service of the nation. If senior members have some issue with cadets entering the military they probably should start looking for another place to donate their time other than the Official Auxiliary to the US Air Force. I'm sure there are plenty of Sheriff's Posses or SAR teams that would love their experience.

I'm just sayin......

I think you're right JK. CAP is a military program althought we dont require military service. The reality is most young people join CAP because of the military aspect of it. Not all though. I have met a few cadets that have no desire to go into the military and that is ok. But I do believ ethe majority join because of the military part. A lot of seniors these days well thats another story. 

[Nathan]

I have no problem with military recruiters or seniors talking about the military. Almost nobody joins CAP as a cadet without some desire to at least explore the military route.

That being said, I would not tolerate (and have shut down) senior members who spout off either radical anti-military or pro-military views. There is a fine line between explaining the realities of the job and making politics.

I would expand to say, however, that I would not have a problem with a Peace Corps recruiter coming in. Or a recruiter for Delta. Or a medical school recruiter. Or whatever. The idea is to present jobs to the cadets that not only are interesting possibilities for them, but also ones that would take advantage of most cadets' inherent enthusiasm and drive to succeed.

The military is one path of obvious interest to many, if not most cadets. So we would be lax in our job of helping the cadets become model citizens and set their life path out if we didn't offer people who can talk honestly about the military. On the same hand, we obviously need to be careful to ensure that the cadets are being given the ability to think critically about what they're being told. I'm certainly not expecting the recruiters to downplay their own branch, but if I were to start hearing things that were a little too targeted, then I would probably pull the plug.

[kd8gua]

Should seniors encourage or discourage? No, they shouldn't do either. I feel that letting enlisted or officers come in to talk is a great thing though. However, it shouldn't be a "Hoo-rah! Go Army! Go Marines!" propaganda fest. The last thing a CAP meeting needs is a recruiter coming in and talking about how cool one brach is over another. By its own uniformed nature, the CAP cadet program is a quasi- USAF recruitment tool. No, I'm not specifically saying that all cadets are going to join the USAF at 18, but a lot of them are slanted to the USAF.

Back in my cadet days, my cousin came to a squadron meeting to talk about the importance of education, physical fitness, and deciding what you want to do. My cousin is a MSgt in the US Army Special Forces. He could have easily come in, dusted off his Class A's with all of his decorations and everything else, and talked about a career in the Army and Army Ranger school, but he chose to keep things simple. He shared some stories about training and deciding on the military.

CAP, even with some of the problems that I faced (including leaving my squadron at a point in which there were 7 cadets, including all cadet staff), was one of the best things I could have done in high school. I had never heard of CAP until a friend told my family about it. While I was in, my fellow cadets were all looking at various options. Some wanted to join the military out of high school, some wanted to go to a service academy, others ROTC. No one was discouraged, but everyone was encouraged to follow what they wanted to do. I wanted to go into Aviation and do ROTC. My senior year of high school I decided against ROTC, and was instead opting for OTS after college. Then I had a change of heart and wanted to major in Music Education instead of Aviation. At that point I left all of the decisions of USAF careers in the past. Currently I'm not taking classes, because music didn't feel like a calling to me either. Right now I drive buses on a college campus. It's a full time job that feels rewarding. I feel like I'm doing something by doing it.

So pushing cadets to either do military service, or NOT do military service, isn't a good idea. Neither is pushing cadets to go to college or work right out of high school. Trust me, it took me 3 1/2 years to realize I was wasting time and money in college, not really sure what I wanted to do. I plan to get a degree in something down the road, just to show that I can accomplish it. But right now, I have a job that I enjoy. I'm in the process of getting my files together to come back to CAP, and I hope that somehow I can give back to the organization that helped me out.

As a side note, a lot of my friends from CAP are in completely different things than what they hoped. Two cadets enlisted into the USAF. Two identical twin cadets enlisted into the USCG. Others went into the Army, and one of my friends went into AFROTC only to realize it wasn't what she wanted. A good number of the rest of the cadets are just college students or employed members of society. One cadet in particular left CAP, but came back and entered the Flight Officer program and is flying missions now.

CAP is an auxiliary of the USAF, and will always be. But look at our logo. The blue circle with the white triangle and red prop. We are the only organization built out of the US Civil Defense program that still uses its CD style logo. Civil Defense is just that, civilians volunteering to defend our country. Granted we aren't having 12 year old cadets do border patrols, but we are still doing things, both as cadets and seniors, in a voluntary capacity, to make this country something great.

Emergency Services, Aerospace Education, and Cadet Programs are the three programs we are all responsible for on some level. Yes, some members may focus on one program more than the others, but all of these things work hand in hand to make this organization what it is. Take away one, and it turns into co-ed Boy Scouts (not that they aren't useful in developing leaders themselves). Take away another, and CAP is just a military costume party for people 12 and up to play Air Force.

At any rate, seniors, as well as cadet officers, should encourage individual cadets to follow their dreams. If cadets have tough decisions, then it is no one's responsibility to encourage the cadet to pick one. The cadet should be presented all sides of the decision, all possible outcomes, and the cadet should decide on their own which way they want to go. This shouldn't just stop at school or military decisions. Don't forget about the moral leadership lessons and just general life skills that are developed in a squadron meeting.

[Stonewall]

So in a nutshell, you only suggest that we encourage cadets to follow their dreams?  Interesting.

So your dream was to be a campus bus driver?  What happened here is you settled.  You settled for something other than your original goal(s) and now you're trying to convince yourself, and us, that you have a rewarding job driving a bus on a school campus.  Good, real good.

There is nothing wrong with being a campus bus driver; nor is there anything wrong with being a $12 hr security officer.  But who grows up, especially in middle/high school (i.e. cadet age) with aspirations to be an hourly security officer?  I have security officers that work for me made up of all different types.  A couple are using the position as a means to an end; they're in college or using it as a temporary gig and are reaching towards higher goals.  I love these guys!!! Remind me of me.  Then I have the retired guys who spent their lives as police officers or career military NCOs.  These guys are reliable, competent and not easily persuaded to look the other way.  I love these guys too.  Then I have 2 guys in their early 30s with zero aspirations or goals.  They've told me so.  Zero college and no military background.  This is not a temporary job; this is their only job. 


So please, when you do come back into CAP as a senior member, don't work with cadets.  As a 20+ year veteran of CAP, and former cadet, I have strongly suggested the military as a viable option.  Likewise, I have encouraged post-high school studies and public safety (fire dept, law enforcement) .  I have former cadets who are PJs, cops, public school teachers, military officers, paramedics, cops,and civil engineers.  Pretty much all of them had an idea of what they wanted to accomplish in their lives or what job they wanted after high school.  If one of them said they wanted to be a security officer or a bus driver, you better believe I would have steered them away from that "goal" and pushed the military option strong and hard.

[MSgt Van]

I have an obligation to making sure cadets have the facts before jumping into the military.  I make sure there's a reliable B.S. filter available when they start talking with a recruiter (although this isn't a problem with the recruiters in this area). Some cadets are a natural fit for military duty, and I'd be proud to serve with them. Others, not so much. It's their decision, I just want to make sure it's an informed one.

[kd8gua]

So in a nutshell, you only suggest that we encourage cadets to follow their dreams?  Interesting.

So your dream was to be a campus bus driver?  What happened here is you settled.  You settled for something other than your original goal(s) and now you're trying to convince yourself, and us, that you have a rewarding job driving a bus on a school campus.  Good, real good.

There is nothing wrong with being a campus bus driver; nor is there anything wrong with being a $12 hr security officer.  But who grows up, especially in middle/high school (i.e. cadet age) with aspirations to be an hourly security officer?  I have security officers that work for me made up of all different types.  A couple are using the position as a means to an end; they're in college or using it as a temporary gig and are reaching towards higher goals.  I love these guys!!! Remind me of me.  Then I have the retired guys who spent their lives as police officers or career military NCOs.  These guys are reliable, competent and not easily persuaded to look the other way.  I love these guys too.  Then I have 2 guys in their early 30s with zero aspirations or goals.  They've told me so.  Zero college and no military background.  This is not a temporary job; this is their only job. 


So please, when you do come back into CAP as a senior member, don't work with cadets.  As a 20+ year veteran of CAP, and former cadet, I have strongly suggested the military as a viable option.  Likewise, I have encouraged post-high school studies and public safety (fire dept, law enforcement) .  I have former cadets who are PJs, cops, public school teachers, military officers, paramedics, cops,and civil engineers.  Pretty much all of them had an idea of what they wanted to accomplish in their lives or what job they wanted after high school.  If one of them said they wanted to be a security officer or a bus driver, you better believe I would have steered them away from that "goal" and pushed the military option strong and hard.

Not everyone is cut out for the military. I know I'm not. But it took me going through CAP, and deciding on ROTC or not to realize that it isn't for me. So someone pushing me into military service would do nothing but make me angry with them. Just like you telling me I shouldn't work with cadets or that my dream job was to be a bus driver.  I am the first person in my immediate family to even attempt to go to college. Neither of my parents tried and just started working right out of high school. So for me to get as far as I did is saying something. I am a smart person, graduated in the top 30 of my class (I'm sure you'll have some smart remark about why I wasn't in the top 10) but I don't like school. I have no desire to read page after page of textbook, as I get nothing out of it. I learn through more hand-on type things. And frankly I have yet to find a program that encompasses my interests.

Please don't patronize me and tell me who I am and am not convincing or not convincing. My job is something that not everyone can do. And a simple thank you is all the appreciation that I need to make at least one day of work seem rewarding. I'd like to see you jump behind the seat of a 40 foot bus and drive around a crowded college campus without hitting something.

I apologize if this is off-topic, but I don't take to kindly to people bashing me and the choices I have made in my life. I'm sorry not everyone is perfect like you sir, and had their life planned out from the day they popped out of the womb. Some of us literally have no idea what we want to do with our lives. I'm doing things that I enjoy doing. I'm not going to stop doing things I enjoy because it doesn't fit in yours or anyone else's plan for life. You live your life how you want and please let me live mine how I want. If I wanted you to tell me that being a bus driver is a dead end job and that I'm a lost cause because I have no goals or aspirations, I would have kindly asked you. I have enough people telling me what I'm doing wrong, and I have enough self-confidence and self-esteem issues that I don't need more people telling me what I'm doing wrong.