Should Senior Members Enourage or Discourage Cadets from Entering Military?

[Major Carrales]

I would certainly support any cadet that made an informed decision to join the military, but I don't think military service, or any other career field for that matter, should be actively encouraged or discouraged in CAP.

I try to "find their grain" as to what they would like to do in life and open opportunities for them based on those finding using the unit as a medium.  Thus, if a Cadet wants to be a police officer, I solicit the help of local law enforcement to come in and make a presentation for their benefit.

The result is that the whole unit benefits from the exposure to the career and the one cadet originally targeted gets a good experience to see what his would-be field is all about.

[RiverAux]

I would certainly support any cadet that made an informed decision to join the military, but I don't think military service, or any other career field for that matter, should be actively encouraged or discouraged in CAP.

I'm wondering how we're supposed to conduct the CAP program in a manner such as that considering that one of our primary duties is to get them interested in aerospace while wearing a military uniform every week....

[AirAux]

I am having a hard believing what I am reading.  I believe everyone "owes" this country 2-6 years of service.  This may be military or civil, but everyone owes something.  Our program is "pro" military anyway you call it.  We are not the boy scouts or girl scouts.  The Air Force provides a great deal of our money and support.  There is an old saying that you should dance with the one that brung ya!  We spend half of our time arguing about throwing out members that don't meet military standards and can't wear the AF uniform.  We should "proudly" support the military.  Get over the political correctness.  Look at our heritage.  Encourage recruiters to attend your meetings.  Be proud of our military.. 

[Hawk200]

I believe everyone "owes" this country 2-6 years of service. 

I don't. And there are people I have served with that really shouldn't be wearing a uniform. Military service requires a certain dedication, and not everyone is as dedicated as they should be.

I believe that military service is more of a calling than something that someone owes.

[Major Carrales]

I am having a hard believing what I am reading.  I believe everyone "owes" this country 2-6 years of service.  This may be military or civil, but everyone owes something.  Our program is "pro" military anyway you call it.  We are not the boy scouts or girl scouts.  The Air Force provides a great deal of our money and support.  There is an old saying that you should dance with the one that brung ya!  We spend half of our time arguing about throwing out members that don't meet military standards and can't wear the AF uniform.  We should "proudly" support the military.  Get over the political correctness.  Look at our heritage.  Encourage recruiters to attend your meetings.  Be proud of our military..

Who's saying anything "anti-military" in any of the above.  The fact is that informed volunteers are the backbone and strength of our Military.   Having a Civil Air Patrol that promotes good citizenship, informed choice and service does a far greater service to the USAF than one that funnels what might be called "automatons" into the military.

That is what is being said above...that the keystone of any strong national defense is the creation of citizens willing to take up arms to defend their way of life.   That is also a lesson that we can learn from those that took up arms at Lexington and Concord in 1774. 

Today there is too much, so much, apathy and ignorance among our youth and young adult populace that simple citizenship issues and lessons are dismissed as "hokum."  What CAP teaches is real...serve your "Community, State and Nation" as best you can.

[SarDragon]

I believe everyone "owes" this country 2-6 years of service. 

I don't. And there are people I have served with that really shouldn't be wearing a uniform. Military service requires a certain dedication, and not everyone is as dedicated as they should be.

I believe that military service is more of a calling than something that someone owes.

+1000

I joined the Navy in 1969, as a draft-induced enlistment. At least 15% of the folks I served with had no business in the military, because of similar circumstances. I certainly wasn't a poster boy for the Navy, but I did my job, stayed out of trouble, and advanced in grade until I peaked at E-6.

The number of discipline problems went down dramatically after the last of the problematic  draft-induced enlistees finally left the Navy around 1975 or so.

It is encouraging that we are handling the current war situation with an all-volunteer force.

[billford1]

I was at a get together where there were some teenagers who were talking about joining the Military. They talked about what the recruiter had told them. I suggested that they take plenty of time to think about it, and that they should also talk to people who had served in the Military and get their perspective about Military life.

[AirAux]

I said military or civilian service.  If one isn't fit to be in the military there are still civilian service opportunities.  This country isn't here to serve us, we are here to serve our country.  Several of the above messages say in essence that we shouldn't "encourage" enlistment or military service.  Even a Democrat like Kennedy said "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."  Part of our problem today is the entitlement mentality of our younger generations.  Part of our job is to instill a sense of obligation and of true "Citizenship".  I am having a problem with any of our CAP leaders that are not pro America or pro military to the extent that they would not encourage recruiter participation in our program..

[RiverAux]

I am fully confident that if you find a squadron commander who refuses to allow a recruiter to give a presentation (in general, not just because the schedule was full on some particular night), that you will soon be looking at a former squadron commander. 

[flyguy06]

I said military or civilian service.  If one isn't fit to be in the military there are still civilian service opportunities.  This country isn't here to serve us, we are here to serve our country.  Several of the above messages say in essence that we shouldn't "encourage" enlistment or military service.  Even a Democrat like Kennedy said "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."  Part of our problem today is the entitlement mentality of our younger generations.  Part of our job is to instill a sense of obligation and of true "Citizenship".  I am having a problem with any of our CAP leaders that are not pro America or pro military to the extent that they would not encourage recruiter participation in our program.

You say that as if to say the "narmal" Democrat is against thi philosophy. I love it when people that make those kinds of statements. Then I tell them that I am a card carrrying life time Democrat who has served his nation for 20 years. Most of that as a ground combat soldier, not some poag in the rear. Their mouths get closed at that point.

My best friend has never served inthe military. he has taught high school for 15 years. i believe he is seving his nation greatly. He molds the future of our nation. You dont have to be in the military to serve, everyone is not cut out to be in the military.

I am not old enought to have participated in Vietnam but as a current military member I wouldnt want someone fighting next to me that didnt want to be there.

I do agree with you that a lot of young people have a entitlement attitude. But idont think military service is a way to combat that.

[AirAux]

Flyguy, I believe it is common knowledge that in general Republicans support the military and that Democrats are less supportive usually.  During the times that Republicans are in power, the military gets more support and money and during times that Deocrats are in power, the military receives less support.  This isn't a slam at Democrats, it is what it is.  It is a political point of view that arises from the past actions pf the Democratic party.  And again, I stress that there is civilian service one can do if they aren't fit fot military duty.  As for the draft, if one were to study the situation, the draft brought educated, privileged people into the Army that would never have volunteered.  This exposed congressmen's sons to harm and in a small way leveled the risk among all Americans instead of the poor and uneducated.  If someone was drafted that was not fit for military duty, they had the distinct possibility of being discharged.  Believe it or not, but some of those draftees brought a lot of talent and served their country honorably.  The draft was not of itself a bad thing.  The way Viet Nam was handled by the politicians was a terrible thing.  As to your reference about your friend teaching, that is a very good thing, but does not equate to military service in my book.  JMHO..

[Major Carrales]

Flyguy, I believe it is common knowledge that in general Republicans support the military and that Democrats are less supportive usually.  During the times that Republicans are in power, the military gets more support and money and during times that Deocrats are in power, the military receives less support.  This isn't a slam at Democrats, it is what it is.  It is a political point of view that arises from the past actions pf the Democratic party.  And again, I stress that there is civilian service one can do if they aren't fit fot military duty.  As for the draft, if one were to study the situation, the draft brought educated, privileged people into the Army that would never have volunteered.  This exposed congressmen's sons to harm and in a small way leveled the risk among all Americans instead of the poor and uneducated.  If someone was drafted that was not fit for military duty, they had the distinct possibility of being discharged.  Believe it or not, but some of those draftees brought a lot of talent and served their country honorably.  The draft was not of itself a bad thing.  The way Viet Nam was handled by the politicians was a terrible thing.  As to your reference about your friend teaching, that is a very good thing, but does not equate to military service in my book.  JMHO..

Let's keep the DEMS and REPS out of the conversation.  I am often tempted to, when I see "D's" and "R's" next to people's name, imagine that the "D" and "R" Stands for "doing right," as in the "right and proper things to do."

Any other interpretation on this forum skirts on violating the Terms of Service.

[flyguy06]

You are right Major. i think its unfotunant that you cant even have a hint of mention of Dems or Repubs witout fear of being locked. But its not my site.

Air Aux, thats a stereotype that repubs support the military mre than dems. Ans I will leave it at that.

Again you have a right to your opinion about what is more honorbale to serve and what is not. But let me tell you something. Not to knock on my fellow service members but I was an Infantryman and my experience in Iraq was totally differnt than the supply folks and the food service folks.

Dont judge a person just becaue he or she weas a uniform. The military is jut as full of a variety of people as the civilian world. Everyone that dons a uniform isnt worthy of honor,

What makes military service so much more honorable? heck, half the people I went to war withwere thee to get money for college. they didnt have this all out desire to swrve their country. They wanted to get paid.

teaching is a very honorable profession as is public safety and anything dealing with helping and serving others. People want to put military folks onthis shelf. If they only knew the truth. I wish you guys could listen to a conversation in the barracks on a Friday night sometime. It would surprise you.

[davedove]

I see nothing wrong with allowing recruiters to speak to the cadets.  Military service is a valid option for them and they should be allowed to hear of it.

Now, military service is not for everyone.  It should be neither encouraged or disgouraged by the senior members.  The cadets should be free to make their own informed choices.  This is where senior members with military service can prove invaluable by giving the cadets an HONEST view of their experiences.  There are too many stories of both glory and fear out there; what the cadets need are honest facts.

[jimmydeanno]

I don't think it's my job in CAP to encourage or discourage a cadet from doing what they want to do.  I do think that it is my job to help them get where they want to go though.

I think that the CAP Cadet Program, by its nature, attracts kids that are interested in the military and military lifestyle.  It also attracts parents that are interested in trying to get their children into a structured program that can help instill discipline and good morals.

Our program does a lot of things that are "pro-military" but not everything.  We do tours of military facilities, talk to military members, fly in military aircraft.  Heck, we even meet on a military base.  All things that attract people interested in the military.

Does that mean that I schedule a recruiting appointment with every cadet that comes through the door?  Absolutely not.  Does that mean that I have the Air Guard recruiter standing outside our doorway at every meeting handing out flyers?  No.

In fact, despite being on a military base, we have not had a single recruiter come to our meeting.  However, I would say that 90% of the cadets that left our unit in the last 3 years have joined the military in some form or another - whether that be active duty enlisted, military academy, ROTC or traditional Guardsman.

I have a cadet in my unit who joined when she was 13.  She had her mind set on going to the Air Force Academy.  She gets outstanding grades in school (3rd in her class of 600), speaks latin, feeds the homeless, has tons of community service awards and recently earned her Earhart. 

She's a Senior now and is not going to the Air Force Academy.  She's decided that AFROTC is the route she wants to take.  She arrived at this decision through some conversations with my wife and I, talking to the AFROTC detachment commander and by attending a week long seminar/intro at the Air Force Academy.  She realized that it wasn't what she wanted for her college experience.  I didn't guide her to the ROTC decision, just provided her with some information that she asked for.

I have another [former] cadet who was facing some tough decisions coming out of High School because of a tough family situation.  He was going to graduate, move into an apartment with 6 of his friends and work at Chick-fil-A.  Good kid, tough situation.

His mother asked me to "intervene" and talk to him about some other options he had.  I started talking to him about going to a local community college, etc.  He didn't want to.  Eventually, he asked if I knew anything about what the Air Force had to offer.  So, it lead into a discussion about joining the Air Force as an enlisted person.  Heck, I even went with him to the recruiter (he asked me to).  Now, he's a comm troop stationed in Korea.  He told me that joining the Air Force was the best decision he had ever made - thanking me for helping him find his way.

I also have a cadet who applied to a fairly prestigious school who is pursuing an Aerospace Engineering Degree.  He has no interest in joining the military at all.  He is just fascinated with Aerospace. 

So, while we have plenty of cadets who choose to join the military on their own, we probably have just as many deciding not to.  That isn't a bad thing. I will continue to write letters of recommendation for my cadets who want to go to college, or want to get a job somewhere - because it is what they want to do, not what I want them to do.

My role is to help them along their path, not choose it for them.

[RiverAux]

In fact, despite being on a military base, we have not had a single recruiter come to our meeting. 

Although my unit isn't on a base, it is in a fairly good sized city with recruiters from every service, and with the exception of the local AF Academy recruiter, I don't recall any of them ever asking to come to the squadron, though since I'm not terribly well linked in with our cadet program, I could have missed some visits over the years. 

I wonder why that is?  A CAP squadron is generally going to be a very receptive audience to their message.  Is it that the other services assume that CAP cadets won't be interested in anything but the Air Force?  Is it that they assume the CAP cadets are probably going to be more focused on going on to college and going in through ROTC or one of the Academies? 

I think they would be very wrong to make those assumptions.  I'd say a good proportion of CAP cadets that enter the military, do so as enlisted and many choose other services. 

[jimmydeanno]

I wonder why that is?  A CAP squadron is generally going to be a very receptive audience to their message.  Is it that the other services assume that CAP cadets won't be interested in anything but the Air Force?  Is it that they assume the CAP cadets are probably going to be more focused on going on to college and going in through ROTC or one of the Academies? 

I think they would be very wrong to make those assumptions.  I'd say a good proportion of CAP cadets that enter the military, do so as enlisted and many choose other services.

In our case, we just haven't done an invite.  We have recruiting materials and business cards available at our sign-in desk for those interested, but we don't push it.

I'm not an expert on military recruiting, but it seems that if I were one, I'd be going to the places that I wasn't already getting people from - increasing my area of influence.

A CAP cadet squadron already has kids that are interested (and most definitely) going to join the military in some way or another.  If you know that next year you're going to have 4-5 of those cadets walk through your doors whether you go and talk to them or not, would you put the effort in?

The other branches get their share of our cadets as well.  Last year we had one cadet go to West Point and two others join the Army enlisted.  We had 1 cadet go to the USAFA and 1 join the Air Force enlisted.  Currently, we have 3 younger cadets who want to join the Marines and two who are interested in the Navy.

I could be way off base, but were I recruiting, I wouldn't "waste my time" with the sure things.

[EMT-83]

Don't recruiters have numbers to meet? Quota probably isn't right term.

I'd think that a sure thing would be a good thing.

[Rotorhead]

I am having a problem with any of our CAP leaders that are not pro America or pro military to the extent that they would not encourage recruiter participation in our program..

I am having a problem with people who say that those who don't think everyone belongs in military service are somehow"not pro-America."

[AirAux]

And I have problems with people who believe they can be pro-America and not support our military.  I didn't say everyone belonged in the military.  I said recruiter participation should be encouraged.  If you read the whole series, you would see that I feel there should be some government service required of our young people for the privilege of living in this great country.  That could consist of military or civilian service.  Why would one join CAP if one was not pro-military?  We are the auxilary of the Air Force.  We are not the Salvation Army, Peace Corps, or Boy Scouts.  We wear uniforms, we take oaths, we use military courtesies, we have military structure, we have military rank.  This should be a no brainer.  It's no wonder the Air Force doesn't know what to do with us.  We don't even know who or what we are ourselves.