Deputy vs. Vice Commander, What's the difference?

[Eclipse]

Wings, Regions, and NHQ have Vice CC's (CV), and Groups / Units, and more activities have Deputy CC's (CD),
so...what's the difference?

[mikeylikey]

I don't see a difference other than titles used.  Maybe it is some Air Force thing where Groups and Squadrons have Deputy Commanders and higher organizations have Vice Commanders.  (I reference the AF base by my home as there is a Wing Commander, and a Vice Commander, and then the Services Squadron has a Commander and Deputy Commander). 

So it must be some way to make CAP more "Air Forcey" by using their titles.  If you go look at Jimmy's historical postings here you will see up into the 1950's I think there were Wing Comanders and Deputy Commanders.  The switch must have happened between 1953 and now.

[PHall]

Mikey got it right.  Groups have Deputy Commanders while Wings and above have Vice Commanders.
Squadrons don't usually have a Deputy Commander in the Air Force. But CAP does.

[Eagle400]

Squadrons don't usually have a Deputy Commander in the Air Force. But CAP does.

So why does CAP see the need for deputy commanders at the squadron level? 

I would think they would only be needed for group. 

CAP Wings (and above) have vice commanders just like the AF, so that is not an issue. 

[SJFedor]

Squadrons don't usually have a Deputy Commander in the Air Force. But CAP does.

So why does CAP see the need for deputy commanders at the squadron level? 

I would think they would only be needed for group. 

CAP Wings (and above) have vice commanders just like the AF, so that is not an issue. 

Cuz the first order of business when you start a new job is to begin training your replacement. 

[Hawk200]

Squadrons don't usually have a Deputy Commander in the Air Force. But CAP does.

So why does CAP see the need for deputy commanders at the squadron level? 

I would think they would only be needed for group. 

CAP Wings (and above) have vice commanders just like the AF, so that is not an issue. 

Our units have some uniquely different aspects compared to the Air Force. A deputy allows the commander to run the unit while the DC handles a specific mission within it. This would easily apply to cadet and composite units. As for senior units, I've never been in one, someone who has will have to tell you if a DC is useful or not.

My commander is probably pretty happy that he has DCs for both cadet and senior sides. Cuts his workload to about 35 hours a week, instead of probably 50. The cadet side gets handled by a DCC, the DCS handles the senior side, and the commander is probably putting out some kind of fire related to someone's stupidity. He's been a lot happier since we've managed to get organized.

[mynetdude]

Squadrons don't usually have a Deputy Commander in the Air Force. But CAP does.

So why does CAP see the need for deputy commanders at the squadron level? 

I would think they would only be needed for group. 

CAP Wings (and above) have vice commanders just like the AF, so that is not an issue. 

Cuz the first order of business when you start a new job is to begin training your replacement. 

Assuming they will replace the commander.  We have a Deputy commander, he does not want to take the commander position when our commander goes "out" for the change of command.  I know this sounds silly, but then again having a deputy commander is basically the commander's "assistant" to help spread the load or when he is absent.

[Eagle400]

Our units have some uniquely different aspects compared to the Air Force. A deputy allows the commander to run the unit while the DC handles a specific mission within it. This would easily apply to cadet and composite units. As for senior units, I've never been in one, someone who has will have to tell you if a DC is useful or not.

True, sir.  I'm just thinking of ways CAP squadrons can be more like AF squadrons (without affecting mission, operations, or functionality).

One idea is for CAP to rename the deputy commander positions to things like "OIC - Cadets" and "OIC - Seniors."

Reason I say this is because the squadron deputy commanders in CAP are more like OIC's than deputy commanders; AF deputy commanders have more authority and cover all of the personnel in the squadron,  not just one half of  the squadron (in CAP's case, cadets or seniors).    

That's why I believe the title of deputy commander would be more appropriate for just senior squadrons.

My commander is probably pretty happy that he has DCs for both cadet and senior sides. Cuts his workload to about 35 hours a week, instead of probably 50. The cadet side gets handled by a DCC, the DCS handles the senior side, and the commander is probably putting out some kind of fire related to someone's stupidity. He's been a lot happier since we've managed to get organized.

Yes, there is no question that deputy commanders are important to have.  I just think that the titles should be renamed (in the case of composite and cadet squadrons). 

[Eagle400]

Assuming they will replace the commander.  We have a Deputy commander, he does not want to take the commander position when our commander goes "out" for the change of command.

That is why I think that everyone who applies to be squadron commander should be evalutated; not just the deputy commander. 

I know this sounds silly, but then again having a deputy commander is basically the commander's "assistant" to help spread the load or when he is absent.

Then perhaps CAP should change the title to "assistant" or "OIC."

CAP doesn't have to rename the deputy commander positions, but doing so would put them more in line with the Air Force.  I can't think of any AF squadron that has 2 deputy commanders.

[SJFedor]

Assuming they will replace the commander.  We have a Deputy commander, he does not want to take the commander position when our commander goes "out" for the change of command.

That is why I think that everyone who applies to be squadron commander should be evalutated; not just the deputy commander. 

I know this sounds silly, but then again having a deputy commander is basically the commander's "assistant" to help spread the load or when he is absent.

Then perhaps CAP should change the title to "assistant" or "OIC."

CAP doesn't have to rename the deputy commander positions, but doing so would put them more in line with the Air Force.  I can't think of any AF squadron that has 2 deputy commanders.

If it bothers you too bad, think of your unit as 2 flights, the senior flight, and the cadet flight. The senior flight is led by the Deputy Commander of Seniors, and the Cadet flight is led by the DCC.

But honestly, I think we can file this under "Who gives a frack?"

It is what it is.

[Eagle400]

If it bothers you too bad, think of your unit as 2 flights, the senior flight, and the cadet flight. The senior flight is led by the Deputy Commander of Seniors, and the Cadet flight is led by the DCC.

But honestly, I think we can file this under "Who gives a frack?"

It is what it is.

Oh no, it doesn't really bother me, sir.  It's just one of those "optional, but nice to have" things. 

[Eclipse]

So, to circle back to the question, this is simply different terminology for "Guy #2" with no specific difference in duties or responsibilities between the terms?

[DNall]

Squadrons don't usually have a Deputy Commander in the Air Force. But CAP does.

So why does CAP see the need for deputy commanders at the squadron level? 

I would think they would only be needed for group. 

CAP Wings (and above) have vice commanders just like the AF, so that is not an issue. 

Our units have some uniquely different aspects compared to the Air Force. A deputy allows the commander to run the unit while the DC handles a specific mission within it. This would easily apply to cadet and composite units. As for senior units, I've never been in one, someone who has will have to tell you if a DC is useful or not.

My commander is probably pretty happy that he has DCs for both cadet and senior sides. Cuts his workload to about 35 hours a week, instead of probably 50. The cadet side gets handled by a DCC, the DCS handles the senior side, and the commander is probably putting out some kind of fire related to someone's stupidity. He's been a lot happier since we've managed to get organized.

That's actually right. In a mil unit you would have one mission, and that would be the operations officer overseeing all operations & trng down that line. CAP has a cadet programs mission, and then staff support & ES on the adult side. You can't call the DCC the operations officer, cause that leaves ES out of the picture, and vice versa. If you're looking for more of a number 2 guy to oversee staff & unit function, that's more of an executive officer (CCE), which is a real good one to take some load off a commander.

[Eagle400]

So, to circle back to the question, this is simply different terminology for "Guy #2" with no specific difference in duties or responsibilities between the terms?

Well, different terminology for guys #1 and #2.  But yes, the duties and responsibilities would remain the same. 

[SJFedor]

So, to circle back to the question, this is simply different terminology for "Guy #2" with no specific difference in duties or responsibilities between the terms?

Essentially. If you look at CAPR 20-1, Organization of Civil Air Patrol, and look at the Commander's job description at the various levels (Unit/Group/Wing/Region) you'll see at the bottom it says something like:

NOTE: The duties above also apply to the deputy group commander. Group commanders should develop a detailed position description for their deputy, outlining his/her specific duties and responsibilities in support of the overall group mission.

Change the deputy group commander to deputy squadron, wing vice/chief of staff, region vice(s)/chief of staff, and that's essentially what it says.

[ZigZag911]

Back WIWAC CAPM 20-1 called for four "command" level officers in composite squadrons: CC, CD, executive officer (to run the senior staff), and commandant of cadets.

In effect, CD & XO were merged into DCS, while commandant became DCC.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I remember when the Deputy Commander for Cadets was called the "Commandant of Cadets."  I think people got confused between that and "Cadet Commander."  These easily-confused people are now serving as Airmen on CONUS bases, and the VSAF program is catering to them.

[mynetdude]

I remember when the Deputy Commander for Cadets was called the "Commandant of Cadets."  I think people got confused between that and "Cadet Commander."  These easily-confused people are now serving as Airmen on CONUS bases, and the VSAF program is catering to them.

Why should they be confused with CoC if the USAF Academy has/still uses Commandant of Cadets (unless the Academy has changed things since...).

[mikeylikey]

^ Doesn't each Academy have a Commandant of Cadets??

[flyguy06]

Wings, Regions, and NHQ have Vice CC's (CV), and Groups / Units, and more activities have Deputy CC's (CD),
so...what's the difference?

There is no difference. Its just a name. Although usually Vice Commanders are Group and aboove and Deputy CC's are Squadrons and below. But its not that big a deal. Its just a name