I don't think this is allowed...

[Extremepredjudice]

My squadron's C/CC has made the proclamation that review boards shall not be taken on PT night, unless you wear BDUs or blues.

I'm fairly certain he can't say this.

Would I need him to fill out a CAPF50-2, and scan and send a copy to an IG?

[Spaceman3750]

My squadron's C/CC has made the proclamation that review boards shall not be taken on PT night, unless you wear BDUs or blues.

I'm fairly certain he can't say this.

Would I need him to fill out a CAPF50-2, and scan and send a copy to an IG?

Setting the schedule is entirely within his power.

[lordmonar]

My squadron's C/CC has made the proclamation that review boards shall not be taken on PT night, unless you wear BDUs or blues.

I'm fairly certain he can't say this.

Would I need him to fill out a CAPF50-2, and scan and send a copy to an IG?

Which part do you think he can't do?

Hold Review Boards?
Schedule Review Boards?
Dictate Uniforms for the review boards?

What's a CAPF 50 got to do with an IG complaint?

[PA Guy]

My squadron's C/CC has made the proclamation that review boards shall not be taken on PT night, unless you wear BDUs or blues.

I'm fairly certain he can't say this.

Would I need him to fill out a CAPF50-2, and scan and send a copy to an IG?

And why do you think he can't say that??

[Extremepredjudice]

My squadron's C/CC has made the proclamation that review boards shall not be taken on PT night, unless you wear BDUs or blues.

I'm fairly certain he can't say this.

Would I need him to fill out a CAPF50-2, and scan and send a copy to an IG?

Which part do you think he can't do?

Hold Review Boards?
Schedule Review Boards?
Dictate Uniforms for the review boards?

What's a CAPF 50 got to do with an IG complaint?

All 3, he is a cadet. He should mind his own business. 

CAPF50 would be my proof. 

[Spaceman3750]

My squadron's C/CC has made the proclamation that review boards shall not be taken on PT night, unless you wear BDUs or blues.

I'm fairly certain he can't say this.

Would I need him to fill out a CAPF50-2, and scan and send a copy to an IG?

Which part do you think he can't do?

Hold Review Boards?
Schedule Review Boards?
Dictate Uniforms for the review boards?

What's a CAPF 50 got to do with an IG complaint?

All 3, he is a cadet. He should mind his own business. 

CAPF50 would be my proof.

Proof of WHAT exactly?

[abdsp51]

The form 50 is a feedback form that is used to evaluate cadets and is required if you use a promotion boards for promotion purposes. 

The C/CC can determine the nightly schedule, schedule.participate in the review boards and determine what uniform is to be worn for
boards. 

What about these aspects are upsetting you?

[PA Guy]

If the Sqdn CC or Dep for Cadets has delegated this to him he can say it.  It is part of leadership training.

If you think this rises to the level of an IG complaint you must not get out much.  This is an issue that should be resolved in the unit.

[lordmonar]

My squadron's C/CC has made the proclamation that review boards shall not be taken on PT night, unless you wear BDUs or blues.

I'm fairly certain he can't say this.

Would I need him to fill out a CAPF50-2, and scan and send a copy to an IG?

Which part do you think he can't do?

Hold Review Boards?
Schedule Review Boards?
Dictate Uniforms for the review boards?

What's a CAPF 50 got to do with an IG complaint?

All 3, he is a cadet. He should mind his own business. 

CAPF50 would be my proof.

You obviously don't understand the cadet program or military chain of command.
My suggestion would be to get over it.  If you think something is wrong take it to the the CDC or the CC.

[Extremepredjudice]

The form 50 is a feedback form that is used to evaluate cadets and is required if you use a promotion boards for promotion purposes. 

The C/CC can determine the nightly schedule, schedule.participate in the review boards and determine what uniform is to be worn for
boards. 

What about these aspects are upsetting you?

It is ridiculous. He allows some cadets review boards, and others not.

If the Sqdn CC or Dep for Cadets has delegated this to him he can say it.  It is part of leadership training.

If you think this rises to the level of an IG complaint you must not get out much.  This is an issue that should be resolved in the unit.

So is it resolved when the squadron commander stares blankly at you? Explain this to me. Not to be rude, I just don't get it?

Proof of WHAT exactly?

Proof he wouldn't allow me to take my review board for the sole reason of not having uniform X on, even though uniform Y was perscribed. You have to prove things in order to make a case for yourself. You can't just say stuff and have to evidence.

[PA Guy]

You don't get it because you don't want too.  Get over it.  Deal.  Based on what you have said no CAPR has been broken.

[AngelWings]

Bring both uniform X and Y then. I've had a board when applied for Flight Sgt. on a PT night and I brought my blues and changed out after I was done PT'ing. Problem solved.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

It was the same way WIWAC, it's not wrong, you may not agree with it, but it is just unit protocall. Don't get overly upset about it, it's not a big issue in the grand scheme.

[EMT-83]

If you do send this to the IG, would you please post his reply here for all to see?

[N Harmon]

It is ridiculous. He allows some cadets review boards, and others not.

...

Proof he wouldn't allow me to take my review board for the sole reason of not having uniform X on, even though uniform Y was perscribed.

The cadets who are being allowed a review board, are they in uniform X?

[FlyTiger77]

Would I need him to fill out a CAPF50-2, and scan and send a copy to an IG?

Step #1 is not the IG.

Step #1: Talk to your element/flight leader. Have him/her engage the cadet commander for relief or clarification

Step #2: If step #1 doesn't get you the relief you seek, ask to speak to the Deputy Commander for Cadets and plead your case.

Step #3: If you still don't have satisfaction, ask to speak to the Squadron Commander and plead your case there. Bear in mind that the squadron commander will also take input from the cadet commander and the Deputy Commander for Cadets.

Realize that at any one of the above steps, "No" is an answer. As long as is the action is not unethical, immoral or illegal, the cadet commander (if supported by higher commanders) gets to set policy. At that point, you don't have to like it. You just have to abide by it.

The IG is step #6 or #7. It is certainly not step #1.

[Dad2-4]

.... He should mind his own business. 

If he's the C/CC and the CDC and/or CC have given him this authority, then he IS minding his business.
IMHO, it sounds like a personality conflict may be coming into play.
What's already been said:
1. Element leader
2. Flt Sgt
3. Flt Ldr
4. C/CC
5. CDC
6. Sq. CC
7. Group CDC
8. Group CC
Seriously doubt you'll need to get past #6 for a satisfactory answer, but you do have a right to keep asking.
Edit: Someone please correct me if I missed someone in that chain.

[abdsp51]

The op is C/MSgt so his chain has shrunk a deal.  But this is something that should first and foremost be solved in house and no higher than the group if need be. 

If CAP IG works like the AF IG then chances are the first question will be did you use your CoC?  If the answer is no it's sent right back to the unit. 

Was this something sprung at that night and you were trying to board or something that was put out before hand? 

[Noble Six]

.... He should mind his own business. 

If he's the C/CC and the CDC and/or CC have given him this authority, then he IS minding his business.
IMHO, it sounds like a personality conflict may be coming into play.
What's already been said:
1. Element leader
2. Flt Sgt
3. Flt Ldr
4. C/CC
Cadet leadership officer
Cadet Activities officer
5. CDC
6. Sq. CC
7. Group CDC
8. Group CC
Seriously doubt you'll need to get past #6 for a satisfactory answer, but you do have a right to keep asking.
Edit: Someone please correct me if I missed someone in that chain.

I dont feel like re numbering, seems like people miss a step and forget about the lower level cadet programs officers.

[Noble Six]

edit Leadership officer, and activities officer.

[Spaceman3750]

edit Leadership officer, and activities officer.

Those folks aren't in a cadet's chain - their relationship is dotted line at best.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

.... He should mind his own business. 

If he's the C/CC and the CDC and/or CC have given him this authority, then he IS minding his business.
IMHO, it sounds like a personality conflict may be coming into play.
What's already been said:
1. Element leader
2. Flt Sgt
3. Flt Ldr
4. C/CC
Cadet leadership officer
Cadet Activities officer
5. CDC
6. Sq. CC
7. Group CDC
8. Group CC
Seriously doubt you'll need to get past #6 for a satisfactory answer, but you do have a right to keep asking.
Edit: Someone please correct me if I missed someone in that chain.

I dont feel like re numbering, seems like people miss a step and forget about the lower level cadet programs officers.

Have to disagree.

CAPR 20-1 Figure 17 shows the CoC is from the CDC to the "Cadet Structure" (Figure 18).  Leadership and Activities officers are staff for the CDC in a composite squadron.

[mwewing]

When I was a cadet (more years ago now than I want to admit) we always changed for PT during the meeting. Outside of the PT activity, wearing the PT uniform would not have been acceptable. Having returned as a senior member, it appears that most units no longer change the uniform mid-meeting in that manner. However, my current unit limits what we do on PT night. We do not have uniform inspections or pin promotions on those nights, and usually our closing is very informal as well. The point here, and this has been made by others, is that the regulations give commanders tremendous freedom to lead their units. So long as they meet the expectations, they can do pretty much as they wish. If I remember correctly, the regulation calls for a CAPF-50 at least once per phase. I do not remember any more specific a requirement than that. This means that the unit can determine which weeks they will schedule them, what uniforms may be worn, and a host of other factors not otherwise regulated.

I would like to point out that as a cadet, the C/CC IS your commander. He/She answers to the unit CC via the CDC, but comes before both in your chain of command. Your statement that the C/CC is a cadet and should mind their own business is alarming and false. Another poster indicated that you are a C/MSgt, and any phase 2 cadet should be somewhat more enlightened than you appear at the moment.

You allege that some cadets are given review boards and others not. If there is a lack of consistency in the enforcement of this policy, it should be addressed through the chain of command, which others have spelled out for you. If these other cadets were reviewed prior to the policy being created, you need to move on.

The bottom line is that nothing you have stated thus far comes anywhere near the realm of an IG complaint. In fact, the blank stare from your CC is probably shock from having his/her time wasted. You do not seem to have any legitimate complaint here. If you have a constructive criticism of the policy, or a recommendation that would help the process, I am sure the C/CC would love to hear about it. If you have a personality conflict with the C/CC or are just upset that a new procedure slowed down your promotion, you need to get over it. This is a good life lesson. You will often have to abide by policies and rules that you find ridiculous. In school you do it for the grade. At work you do it for the paycheck. In CAP you do it to continue in the cadet program. Learn from this and be more prepared at your next review board.

[Eclipse]

Have to disagree.

CAPR 20-1 Figure 17 shows the CoC is from the CDC to the "Cadet Structure" (Figure 18).  Leadership and Activities officers are staff for the CDC in a composite squadron.

Yes, they are staff, no more in the chain then the AEO or ESO are in the chain.

The chain is always Commander to Commander, with anything else being a delegation of the Commander's authority.

[a2capt]

Changing at the meeting isn't the best use of time, IMHO, especially where adequate facilities are not available. When you have 50+ cadets showing up, the 4 stall restroom ins't gonna cut it.

Second, when we have a uniform PT .. ahem, uniform.. that is dictated UOD for that event, there's nothing wrong there.

As for the No Review Board on PT night *because* of the uniform worn to present ones self for review, lets see.

You have two opportunities to make PT in the typical 56 day minimum, if the unit is following a schedule similar to that of 52-16's suggesting. Only one PT pass is required to promote. PT once a month only, is NOT going to make you "fit" to pass in most cases. There for it's plainly obvious that physical fitness is something that is required to be kept up outside of CAP meeting times.

So, ask for the review board, show up in the designated uniform, and document everything.

If you say some cadets are, and some are not, getting review boarded, if they tell you that you're not ready, and are using that as an attempt to dodge the reason of politics, I'd say that is a failed review board and you are entitled to a CAPF 50 filled out with why.

I'm all for the regulations, but more so, I'm all for consistency. The regulations themselves provide for variances. In fact, a review board is not even required for promotion but just once per phase. However, it's fairly hard to document a refusal for promotion in a way that would stick. Sure, a letter in your file, but that's open to opinion too. Unless said letter has a CAPF 50 attached to it, because that, and only that, is what the review board for promotion is based on.

No who's cat died, who got picked last for softball at school, or what bus you rode to school that day. There's always 2 sides to the story, plus what really happened.  None of it is relevant. When this and other kinds of crap get into the mix, those in power are missing the entire intention of the program.

When you can document it all, and cite sections of the regulation that you feel are being wrongly applied, or gone up against, then you go to the IG. But throwing up a cat fight on paper to them isn't going to win you a case.

The IG program is simply a fact finding panel, too. They present the facts to the level of command that is relevant to the complaint.

[a2capt]

It occurred to me afterwards, I didn't mean to imply that you just show up at the meeting to board, request it, if they use the uniform as the requirement, indicate you will fulfill that requirement. If they do not want to schedule review boards during the PT meeting, but have done it regularly for others, call them on it.

But most of all. Document it.

Documentation kills. Even after the fact.
They tell you no, but someone else gets it the next time.

Get the bottom of the issue exposed, and documented.

However, back to the original title, they can choose to dictate the schedule. Period.
It should however be done with over all consistency. Not with abuse of power overlording.

That's what you want to document.

[mwewing]

Changing at the meeting isn't the best use of time, IMHO, especially where adequate facilities are not available. When you have 50+ cadets showing up, the 4 stall restroom ins't gonna cut it.

I happen to agree with you regarding a uniform change being impractical for most units/occasions. It was an example to point out that leadership has a significant amount of autonomy to conduct business as they deem appropriate. What worked for my unit back then does not seem to be commonplace today, and commanders didn't need a regulation dictating that.

While the PT uniform may be the assigned uniform for that day, the C/CC can still limit review boards. This could be accomplished by not scheduling them on PT nights, or by mandating a uniform change. The latter appears to be done in this case. Provided the cadet is given an opportunity (and adequate facilities) to change, and given that there was notice of such a procedure being in place, I see no issue with the requirement. I am assuming of course the CC, or at least the CDC, have signed off on this. In fact, I would argue that allowing review boards on PT nights (with a uniform change) is meant to provide more opportunities for a review board, not less. If those meetings were completely blocked off, the cadet would be forced to wait. This way, the cadet can choose to change or wait based on their own preferences.

The only possible legitimate complaint I could see here, and the OP has not offered any specific statement indicating this, is if the policy is being inconsistently applied. That would be cause for a conversation with the C/CC and possible appeal up the chain of command. I am not sure if these "other cadets" mentioned were reviewed before or after the implementation of the policy. If it is before, too bad. If they have been doing this after, I would appeal up the chain of command. In any event, I still don't see how it rises to the level of an IG complaint. Any leader worth their salt should be able to resolve this in house, and jumping the gun will only alienate those leaders.

[abdsp51]

This is something that could most definately be handled in house with the C/CC, DCC, and CC.
C/CCs shouldn't implement policies without coordinating with the DCC at the minimum. 

[Extremepredjudice]

So is it resolved when the squadron commander stares blankly at you? Explain this to me. Not to be rude, I just don't get it?

[Nathan]

So is it resolved when the squadron commander stares blankly at you? Explain this to me. Not to be rude, I just don't get it?

Basically, yes.

If no regs are being broken, then the squadron commander has the authority to run the program as he/she sees fit, or how the C/CC who has the delegated authority of the squadron commander sees fit.

[Extremepredjudice]

So is it resolved when the squadron commander stares blankly at you? Explain this to me. Not to be rude, I just don't get it?

Basically, yes.

If no regs are being broken, then the squadron commander has the authority to run the program as he/she sees fit, or how the C/CC who has the delegated authority of the squadron commander sees fit.

Emphasis mine

e. Retaining a Cadet in Grade.  Commanders should retain a cadet in grade if the cadet's
performance or  maturity does not demonstrate an ability to accept increased responsibility
commensurate with the promotion. Using the CAPF 50, Cadet Leadership Feedback, the commander
(or deputy commander) will offer constructive feedback to help the cadet develop his/her leadership
skills. The commander must also schedule a follow-up review to be held within 60 days.

So if the CAPF50 [the one I am going to demand at the next meeting] shows satisfactory or above, and I filled the requirements, they have no reason to NOT to give me the promotion. Yes?

Emphasis mine

a. Eligibility. To become eligible for advancement in the Cadet Program, cadets typically
must complete one task in each program element. (This principle sometimes varies; see paragraphs 5-
9 through 5-12 and  CAPVA 52-100.) The  unit commander is the approving authority for all
achievements and awards. To be eligible for a promotion, the cadet must:
(1) Be a current cadet member of CAP.
(2) Possess a CAP uniform and wear it properly.
(3) Be capable of reciting the Cadet Oath from memory (see paragraph 1-3).

Since my squadron has it in its mind the PT uniform is an  "official CAP uniform" and I will be wearing it properly, TECHNICALLY, using their incorrect information, I filled their requirements at that single meeting.

Without using their faulty information, I possess a CAP uniform, and I do wear it properly. See: my past uniform inspections (like 8 months ago...), color guard competition scores (we have the inspection sheet for each cadet).

[abdsp51]

Is your arguement about going to the board in pt gear or having to change into a different uniform? 

[68w20]

So is it resolved when the squadron commander stares blankly at you? Explain this to me. Not to be rude, I just don't get it?

Basically, yes.

If no regs are being broken, then the squadron commander has the authority to run the program as he/she sees fit, or how the C/CC who has the delegated authority of the squadron commander sees fit.

Emphasis mine

e. Retaining a Cadet in Grade.  Commanders should retain a cadet in grade if the cadet's
performance or  maturity does not demonstrate an ability to accept increased responsibility
commensurate with the promotion. Using the CAPF 50, Cadet Leadership Feedback, the commander
(or deputy commander) will offer constructive feedback to help the cadet develop his/her leadership
skills. The commander must also schedule a follow-up review to be held within 60 days.

So if the CAPF50 [the one I am going to demand at the next meeting] shows satisfactory or above, and I filled the requirements, they have no reason to NOT to give me the promotion. Yes?

Emphasis mine

a. Eligibility. To become eligible for advancement in the Cadet Program, cadets typically
must complete one task in each program element. (This principle sometimes varies; see paragraphs 5-
9 through 5-12 and  CAPVA 52-100.) The  unit commander is the approving authority for all
achievements and awards. To be eligible for a promotion, the cadet must:
(1) Be a current cadet member of CAP.
(2) Possess a CAP uniform and wear it properly.
(3) Be capable of reciting the Cadet Oath from memory (see paragraph 1-3).

Since my squadron has it in its mind the PT uniform is an  "official CAP uniform" and I will be wearing it properly, TECHNICALLY, using their incorrect information, I filled their requirements at that single meeting.

Without using their faulty information, I possess a CAP uniform, and I do wear it properly. See: my past uniform inspections (like 8 months ago...), color guard competition scores (we have the inspection sheet for each cadet).

Am I missing the part where waiting a couple weeks until you guys meet in a different is an option?  Why is it imperative that you have this promotion board NOW? 

[Extremepredjudice]

Is your arguement about going to the board in pt gear or having to change into a different uniform? 

Well...  Both.

So is it resolved when the squadron commander stares blankly at you? Explain this to me. Not to be rude, I just don't get it?

Basically, yes.

If no regs are being broken, then the squadron commander has the authority to run the program as he/she sees fit, or how the C/CC who has the delegated authority of the squadron commander sees fit.

Emphasis mine

e. Retaining a Cadet in Grade.  Commanders should retain a cadet in grade if the cadet's
performance or  maturity does not demonstrate an ability to accept increased responsibility
commensurate with the promotion. Using the CAPF 50, Cadet Leadership Feedback, the commander
(or deputy commander) will offer constructive feedback to help the cadet develop his/her leadership
skills. The commander must also schedule a follow-up review to be held within 60 days.

So if the CAPF50 [the one I am going to demand at the next meeting] shows satisfactory or above, and I filled the requirements, they have no reason to NOT to give me the promotion. Yes?

Emphasis mine

a. Eligibility. To become eligible for advancement in the Cadet Program, cadets typically
must complete one task in each program element. (This principle sometimes varies; see paragraphs 5-
9 through 5-12 and  CAPVA 52-100.) The  unit commander is the approving authority for all
achievements and awards. To be eligible for a promotion, the cadet must:
(1) Be a current cadet member of CAP.
(2) Possess a CAP uniform and wear it properly.
(3) Be capable of reciting the Cadet Oath from memory (see paragraph 1-3).

Since my squadron has it in its mind the PT uniform is an  "official CAP uniform" and I will be wearing it properly, TECHNICALLY, using their incorrect information, I filled their requirements at that single meeting.

Without using their faulty information, I possess a CAP uniform, and I do wear it properly. See: my past uniform inspections (like 8 months ago...), color guard competition scores (we have the inspection sheet for each cadet).

Am I missing the part where waiting a couple weeks until you guys meet in a different is an option?  Why is it imperative that you have this promotion board NOW? 

Well, 2 weeks from now is finals week, so I'll probably miss that meeting. And PM incoming.

[lordmonar]

Cadet.

Your attitude is not doing you any help.

Bottom line....you must be in a blues or BDUs to meet the board.......it is a simple, resonable, and allowable requirment.

DEMANDING that you be promoted IS reason to hold you back...and if I were your CDC I would be doing a CAPF50 that showed you needed time to get your attitude into check.

Sorry that's a little harsh...but really....you are supposed to be a C/MSgt....act like one!

[usafcap1]

My squadron's C/CC has made the proclamation that review boards shall not be taken on PT night, unless you wear BDUs or blues.

I'm fairly certain he can't say this.

Would I need him to fill out a CAPF50-2, and scan and send a copy to an IG?

our squadron commander said the same thing. so re the CAPF50-2 to the IG. . . no

[spaatzmom]

In all reality, I would not allow you to go to a review board based on your present attitude and lack of maturity.  I do not believe that your posts here show that you are able to perform, mentor, or lead in an effective way.  It could also be that your chain of command is part of this forum or that they have been informed of your posts.  Crap happens all the time in life.  No one is guarantied a totally blissful life.  It is what you do and how you respond to the pot holes in life that people react to, both good and bad.  Now you can dial back the indignation and work more effectively toward promotion, or continue as you are presently and not get anywhere.  It is up to you.

Example;

Many years ago, when my son was at a wg conf, he saw a group of cadets who were ingesting alcohol in their hotel room.  He quietly excused himself from the situation.  While internally debating what he should do on the way back to our room, he ran into the wg DCP and told him.  It was investigated and found to be true, but somehow it got back to the sq CC that my son was part of the problem.  As you can imagine, it did not sit well with his CC and took quite a while to straighten out the confusion.  During that time, he could not do much within CAP.  Did he pitch a fit as you are?  No, he waited it out and gained far more respect throughout the wing for his handling of the situation.  Was that a difficult few weeks?  Oh ya, but he was a better cadet after having learned how to handle messy situations.

[mwewing]

So if the CAPF50 [the one I am going to demand at the next meeting] shows satisfactory or above, and I filled the requirements, they have no reason to NOT to give me the promotion. Yes?

I would be very cautious about demanding anything from your commander. The last thing you want to do is give anyone a reason to retain you in grade.

The requirements you cited about promotion eligibility are generic requirements for the cadet. The statement about uniforms pertains to your ability to wear it properly in accordance with the program's expectations. It does not mean that because the PT uniform is a uniform you can wear it at any CAP function you want to.

Your latest post seems to hint that you will be retained in grade, but it is the first mention of that I have read on this thread. Refusing to hold a review board because your not in proper uniform (as dictated by the C/CC in a policy) is different from refusing to hold one at all, or refusing to promote you.

Was your last meeting the PT meeting and they held your promotion up a week? If so, ask politely to be on the next meeting's agenda and move forward.
Is the PT meeting this week, and they already told you that you can't have a review board wearing the PT uniform? If so, Bring whatever they want you to wear and change accordingly.

In my opinion, this whole situation is a breakdown of basic leadership. Promotions (even a cadet's frequent promotions) do not just spring up out of nowhere. The review boards should be scheduled in anticipation of a cadet's progress and planned for accordingly. If the C/CC is operating within the guidelines established by the unit CC, you need to follow his/her directive. Honestly, I am having a hard time understanding how this remains an issue. Unless they completely refuse to hold a review board, this should resolve itself at the next meeting.

Cadet.

Your attitude is not doing you any help.

Bottom line....you must be in a blues or BDUs to meet the board.......it is a simple, resonable, and allowable requirment.

DEMANDING that you be promoted IS reason to hold you back...and if I were your CDC I would be doing a CAPF50 that showed you needed time to get your attitude into check.

Sorry that's a little harsh...but really....you are supposed to be a C/MSgt....act like one!

I must agree with lordmonar...Several statements you have made are troublesome. Your lack of respect for your C/CC is unacceptable IMO. Even if you have a personality conflict with the person, you respect their position. Making a statement that your C/CC should "mind his own business" is totally inappropriate. Also, your willingness to disregard the chain of command and involve the IG in such a petty issue is not the behavior of a C/MSgt. In short, show up to the review board wearing whatever they told you to wear, and doing whatever they told you to do. I suspect your hostility comes from your own expectation that you will be retained in grade. Pay attention to the feedback of the board, and heed their advice. Look at this as an opportunity to grow as a cadet and be more prepared for the opportunities that are yet to come.

[ßτε]

I am sure you won't like what I write, but if your conduct on CAPTalk is any indication of your conduct at your squadron, you probably won't like what happens when you demand a CAPF 50-2.

Your attitude is one I would find unacceptable for a C/MSgt. You have shown contempt for your cadet commander for a simple scheduling decision. I can't tell how you feel about your squadron commander, but your comment about the blank stare seems to indicate you have a bad attitude toward him or her as well. I don't know what position you hold, but whatever it is, you should be working with your command staff and not against them.

If you really think that the change in schedule for the review board is actually an attempt to delay your promotion, you should not be making any demands. Doing so will make thing infinitely worse. If you came to me with such a demand, I would seriously consider demotion as an option.

You might try a different tact. Instead of being accusatory, try asking in a respectful manner if the command staff has a reason for not having review boards in PT uniform. I can think of several reasonable reasons. If you find that you are being denied promotion, respectfully request a meeting with the command staff and a CAPF 50-2 Feedback form in accordance with CAPR 52-16 para 5-2e. This should have better results than demanding anything.

If after all this you are still denied promotion, and the command staff does not give you a feedback counseling session based on a CAPF 50-2, you may have grounds for an IG complaint.
Make sure to review CAPR 123-2 first. But any complaint based on what you have presented so far will not get much results.

[abdsp51]

Ok, now that there is more info more guidance may be provided.

A PT uniform is absolutely an inappropriate uniform to test or goto a promotion board, on that aspect there is nothing to contest.  A pt night is also not a night to do boards either if that is what is on the schedule for the majority of the night.

If they are allowing you to board on pt nights and all you have to do is change into an approved uniform , then that is a reasonable compromise.  If you do not want to board on a pt night then wait until the next time you can.

And your promotion is not final or official until the CC or DCC sign off on it.

[Nathan]

Look, here's the advice we all hate to hear until we're experienced enough to realize how absolutely true it is.

There are some battles worth fighting, and you have to pick which ones you want to die for. Is this really one of them?

I had the same problem during my cadet years. I had the RIGHT way of doing things, and I could pull out regs and read them exactly as I wanted to in order to justify the way I thought the program should be run. When people didn't agree with me, I would try to bulldoze them with my mighty rulebook, regardless of whether or not I was actually correct. Some of the battles I won, and some of them I lost.

But mostly, I just pissed people off, and in return, I managed to ensure that the shoulder cords were worn at the end of the shoulder, rather than on the button, as per the regs. Whoooo!

If you really want to butt heads over this stupid issue, then feel free. But realize that it's a no-win situation for you. Even if you manage to force the leadership to review you in a PT uniform, you're now in a situation where they have to evaluate you as a leader after you just spent way too much time on the warpath for an awe-inspiringly trivial cause. If you lose, then that's even worse. And in both situations, you've made lasting enemies who think you're an obnoxious dork because you wanted to argue about uniforms.

Take it from someone who has been there. It's not worth it. Pick the battles you want to fight, because each one is going to cost you something, and you need to make sure the reward is actually worth it.

-Nathan Scalia
Obnoxious dork

[PA Guy]

The OP should stop trying to be a barracks room lawyer and trying to game the system. Going to the IG with a frivilous complaint and demanding promotions will come back and bite you in the butt big time. The fact that you have not gotten any support on this board from people with decades of experience should be a hint.  So go ahead and make a fool of yourself, thats your call, just dont come back here crying about how you were abused and underloved. This is a problem of your own making.

[Woodsy]

ExtremePredjudice,

Knowing who you are, what squadron you're from, and having been a former group staff member in that group, and now a wing staff member, I have just one thing to say...


When you go looking for a problem, you'll find one. 

I suggest you reevaluate the situation and make a new, more internally focused plan of action.   

[CadetFriesen]

When I was a C/CC at my squadron, I implemented the same policy that your C/CC has, and this is why.

If you are going to be leading cadets, then you need to set the example in every area, including the uniform. The PRB is supposed to evaluate each cadet and see if they have the ability to take the next step. Don't try to pass that the PT uniform is a uniform you can be graded on, a 4 year old can wear it correctly. When I graded cadets on uniform, I took a lot more meaning out of it then if their ranks were on correctly. If they wore it well, it told me they have attention to detail and that they actually cared about how the presented themselves. I am not a uniform nazi, but I have failed cadets on PRB's because their uniform was no where near the standard. It didn't mean they could never promote, it just meant they had to reschedule for another board. For the most part, they always passed the second time around.

I scheduled PRB's on PT nights because thats what worked best with our schedule, and it allowed us to do a lot more boards. And do you know what? No one complained. They all knew that they just needed to bring their SSB's and change into PT gear after the board.

I am going to be straight with you here. Suck it up. An IG complaint about having to bring two uniforms to the meeting? That speaks to a certain level of maturity (and maturity is a graded part of the F50). You are going to have MUCH bigger challenges in life, so you better get used to things not going your way.

[NCRblues]

ExtremePredjudice,

Knowing who you are, what squadron you're from, and having been a former group staff member in that group, and now a wing staff member, I have just one thing to say...


When you go looking for a problem, you'll find one. 

I suggest you reevaluate the situation and make a new, more internally focused plan of action.

HMM...nothing like lightly veiled threats to get someone to do what you want or what you think is what they should do. 

[spaatzmom]

ExtremePredjudice,

Knowing who you are, what squadron you're from, and having been a former group staff member in that group, and now a wing staff member, I have just one thing to say...


When you go looking for a problem, you'll find one. 

I suggest you reevaluate the situation and make a new, more internally focused plan of action.
[/quote

Interestingly, this cadet is "well known" within the group, and the group grapevine is deeply rooted.  Hence why I try to stress you never know who is lurking reading posts in the background.  Karma often comes around and bites you in the hiney.


HMM...nothing like lightly veiled threats to get someone to do what you want or what you think is what they should do. 

oops post was lost.   Anyway, this is why I stress you never know who is lurking reading posts invisibly.  This cadet is "well known" within their group and that group's grapevine is firmly established.

[PA Guy]

Redacted.

[PA Guy]

[quote author=NCRblues link=topic=15136.msg272458#msg272458 date=1334098036

HMM...nothing like lightly veiled threats to get someone to do what you want or what you think is what they should do. 
[/quote]

Funny I didn't see it that way.  I saw it as advice, saying much the same as other posters, from someone who knows the cadet and the local situation.

[Woodsy]

[quote author=NCRblues link=topic=15136.msg272458#msg272458 date=1334098036

HMM...nothing like lightly veiled threats to get someone to do what you want or what you think is what they should do. 

Funny I didn't see it that way.  I saw it as advice, saying much the same as other posters, from someone who knows the cadet and the local situation.
[/quote]

Exactly.  I know this cadet, he knows me, and we have a good relationship.  My apologies if it came across as a threat, however lightly veiled, that was not my intention.  I believe he knows what I meant.  My point was, knowing the inner workings of the group, and having worked with his squadron and knowing his commanders, an IG compliant will not help the situation.

[Extremepredjudice]

[quote author=NCRblues link=topic=15136.msg272458#msg272458 date=1334098036

HMM...nothing like lightly veiled threats to get someone to do what you want or what you think is what they should do. 

Funny I didn't see it that way.  I saw it as advice, saying much the same as other posters, from someone who knows the cadet and the local situation.

Exactly.  I know this cadet, he knows me, and we have a good relationship.  My apologies if it came across as a threat, however lightly veiled, that was not my intention.  I believe he knows what I meant.  My point was, knowing the inner workings of the group, and having worked with his squadron and knowing his commanders, an IG compliant will not help the situation.
[/quote]I didn't believe it was a threat. But sir, you only know .0001 of the story.

Do you people seriously think I'd go in and be like "GIMME A CAPF50 OR I'LL TELL THE IG"?

[Eclipse]

Do you people seriously think I'd go in and be like "GIMME A CAPF50 OR I'LL TELL THE IG"?

No, but I think the point is more of "You're not anonymous, and based on first-hand knowledge of the situation, you're not doing yourself any favors telling tales out of school this way..."

[Extremepredjudice]

Woodsy, I was under the impression the last meeting [at my squadron] you attended was halloween?

Do you people seriously think I'd go in and be like "GIMME A CAPF50 OR I'LL TELL THE IG"?

No, but I think the point is more of "You're not anonymous, and based on first-hand knowledge of the situation, you're not doing yourself any favors telling tales out of school this way..."

Statement was directed towards all other posters.

[bflynn]

Funny I didn't see it that way.  I saw it as advice, saying much the same as other posters, from someone who knows the cadet and the local situation.

So many here immediately jump to the worst conclusion because...I don't know why.  But motivation isn't that important to the negative outcome.

I got what you meant.  It is good advice - stick to what you can affect and don't go picking fights with those you have to impress.

[coudano]

The C/CC can, if delegated, or if not delegated, in conjunction with senior staff, determine whether to have review boards at all, or not; and if having them, what uniform must be required to meet the board.

There is nothing at all improper about that on any level.


The disturbing part of your post is this:

It is ridiculous. He allows some cadets review boards, and others not.

...Proof he wouldn't allow me to take my review board for the sole reason of not having uniform X on, even though uniform Y was perscribed.

If -NOBODY- gets a review board on PT night, because NOBODY is in Blues or BDU's (EVERYBODY participates in PT, right???) then there is no problem.

If some members in PT clothing are given review boards, but others are not, then that is probably improper.

If some (select) members are allowed to wear BDU's on PT night for the purpose of meeting the board, but others are not, then that is probably improper.

...unless the cadet commander gets to decide who even is eligible to sit for the board or not; and if you are determined eligible for the board THEN you are allowed to wear the appropriate uniform to board even on PT night.  Then the question becomes:  is the C/CC (or whoever) exercising unfair bias or prejudice in determining who is and is not eligible to meet the board...

If this is the case you are trying to make, then you need more evidence than "somebody else got to board and i didn't".  There may be other completely legitimate policies in place behind that, which explain it sufficiently.  (there might not).

That is different from (ab)using PT night to keep people from sitting the board that you don't like...  which is definitely improper.




You may be jumping to conclusions that something improper is going on here where maybe it isn't.

On the other hand, maybe there IS something rotten in denmark...
It's not like that would be unprecedented in CAP.
But even if this is the case, then as others have pointed out, your first step is the lowest person in your chain of command that you can trust to handle the issue without taking reprisal for you for even bringing it up.