Cadet Online Testing - Anyone having Problems?

[a2capt]

Funny, I've neve seen a job description asking to be proficient with a browser.

An office package, yes. Browser? LOL.

Truth be told, if the web applications are written according to the publish standard, not Microsoft's version of it, they don't have to worry about every browser, and that puts the issues that do arise into the browser developers camp.

IE is on the retreat.

[Eclipse]

You were pretty much cooked right there, especially with IE.  If we can impart a single lesson on our cadets during their entire cadet career, it should be "don't use IE, ever..."

What a boat-load of crap.

When was the last time you saw a Help Wanted ad that specified that the applicant be proficient in Google Chrome and Open Office?

It is 2010, if NHQ is writing anything that is browser-specific, they need to shut if off now and move away from their computers.
This is a basic selection form with a simple score afterward.  Cadets should be able (and expected) to take this on their PC, MAC, iPad, iTouch, or even their cel phones...

In the real world, applications are written to be browser-specific. Companies don't have the resources to test applications because some users want to be kewl. Make it work, then move on to the next hundred items on the to-do list.

Browser independence has nothing to do with being "kewl", and everything with to do publishing to standards and insuring your application is accessible to the widest user base possible.

Anyone who knows how to spell "PC" knows that IE has a history of security and performance issues, which is where the comment was aimed at.  Show me a PC loaded with crapware, redirecting links, and infected with a virus, and 90% of the time it is an less technical user
running IE as their main brower.

As to the want ads these days - if you are a web developer or in marketing and want to be taken seriously, you don't write code that only works on IE. Period.

[coudano]

You were pretty much cooked right there, especially with IE.  If we can impart a single lesson on our cadets during their entire cadet career, it should be "don't use IE, ever..."

What a boat-load of crap.

When was the last time you saw a Help Wanted ad that specified that the applicant be proficient in Google Chrome and Open Office?

Never.  But I can show you about 60 bathousand offices that *FORCE* specific browser uses and plugin/add-on configs using policy.  And whose internal apps "only run on IE" because they hired an MS developer to make them.

And I can show you another 60 bathousand cases of security compromises that are specifically IE/activex/js related that are not vuln in other browsers.

For the record I have taken a cadet test (for snicks) with Chrome and had no issues.

Yeah, but because you are a senior member, your score was never (supposed to be) recorded anyway, which is supposedly the thing that is broken in chrome.
So unless you logged in as a cadet, and took the test, and the score did record...
yeah.

That said, i'm pretty sure I used chrome during the field tests, and it worked for me then...

[Paul Creed III]

Last time I took one of the cadet online tests in Chrome, the print was literally microscopic. I heard from one of my cadets that it was the same for them as well.

While Internet Explorer may have a somewhat bad reputation, Microsoft has taken numerous strides in recent years to greatly lock-down the browser. While IE 8 may not be the fastest or the greatest out there, it has become a respectable browser. Older versions: well, that's just an open door, inviting malware to take residence. And no browser, no matter what it is, can make up for a end user who doesn't know any better. Doesn't matter what kind of gun the sentry carries; if they don't understand how it works or how to use it, the bad guy can still get past the gate.

[Eclipse]

Last time I took one of the cadet online tests in Chrome, the print was literally microscopic. I heard from one of my cadets that it was the same for them as well.

CTRL+ (repeat as necessary)

While Internet Explorer may have a somewhat bad reputation, Microsoft has taken numerous strides in recent years to greatly lock-down the browser. While IE 8 may not be the fastest or the greatest out there, it has become a respectable browser.

And no browser, no matter what it is, can make up for a end user who doesn't know any better.

Doesn't matter what kind of gun the sentry carries; if they don't understand how it works or how to use it, the bad guy can still get past the gate.

I agree and disagree.  If you are intent on loading browser toolbars, sending your friends ecards, and inserting
wacky animations in your sig line, you deserve what you get, however vulnerabilities which aren't there in the first place make up for people who don't read pop-up boxes, and reduce the drive-bys.

In your analogy of a firearm, you don't give the newb who might point it at himself the model with the
flaky safety and unlimited ammo.

[HGjunkie]

I've gotta step in on the browser wars going on:

Fact: IE is the most widely-used browser to date.

With that out of the way, I have used Vista and IE for 3 1/2 years. Never had any problems except for maybe some lag issues. I started out using IE7, and am now on the IE9 beta version. Again, never had a problem. Security isn't an issue if you have good antivirus *cough*the FREE download of AVG corporate edition from e-Services*/cough* and firewall (again the AVG download). Also, it may help if people had enough common sense to know that most of the stuff on the web is crap/infected. But then again, common sense isn't so common these days.

You were pretty much cooked right there, especially with IE.  If we can impart a single lesson on our cadets during their entire cadet career, it should be "don't use IE, ever..."

Yeah. no.

[Ron1319]

For the record I am an extremely technical power user and sometimes web developer with years in the computer engineering industry.  My assumption is always that any code is first tested in IE because for my website more than 60% of the users access the page with IE.  I have Chrome, IE and Firefox on my PC and I use Safari and Firefox on my MBA. 

I find it extremely interesting that none of the conversation since my post has anything to do with specifically the issues I cited in my post or how to overcome them, and only about proper web development which is neither the intent of the thread nor helpful to the discussion.

Ron

[SarDragon]

Welcome to CAP Talk. 

[Daniel]

Fact: IE is the most widely-used browser to date.

not correct, according to multiple sources:
http://social.wakoopa.com/categories/internet/browsers (My personal favourite)
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

Firefox pwns IE since late '09.

My school uses Firefox and I use Chromium on my Linux machine at home.
Which brings me to: Does anyone know if the problem affects Chromium (The Linux and OSX counterpart of chrome)?
The only thing I see says nay, but I'd be angry if I took a test just to have it not record the score.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I don't know why I keep coming back to this thread, it has nothing to do with cadet testing at all anymore.

[HGjunkie]

Fact: IE is the most widely-used browser to date.

not correct, according to multiple sources:
http://social.wakoopa.com/categories/internet/browsers (My personal favourite)
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

Firefox pwns IE since late '09.

ORLY?

[a2capt]

The statistics prove nothing except that they all do show a fairly decent decrease over the years of IE usage, looking earlier I saw some that showed Fx3 with a 10-15% lead over IE, with IE under the 50% mark.  Others show what you see here.

There are 92 different places to get statistics, and when looking for one "you" (people) tend to stop when they find one they like.

in the end, the point is, if the web applications are developed to standards instead of "with IE" then they get a wider audience.

As for being on topic, it sort of is. Perhaps an actual problem is identified and then a solution is reached. Right now, I think I'm going to have the cadet I'm having problems with take their next (first) test on a computer at the unit and see if I can get him to do "exactly" what he's doing at home, that he keeps showing as locked out and having opened it too many times without finishing. He swears it's been under a half hour.


Has anyone received their unit copies of the new tests/manuals? It's getting to about that time for those who joined at 1-July to be promoting en-mass... I bought copies at the NB VG store, but I've yet to receive anything from NHQ.

[coudano]

we had to request our milestones by emailing ms sharon jackson
we had them within a week.

[shlebz]

with my cadets i have noticed that they are having difficulties passing the tests and completely understanding the material.

[Майор Хаткевич]

with my cadets i have noticed that they are having difficulties passing the tests and completely understanding the material.

Ask them why. Most of the time it's because "I kinda did it last minute, and bombed it". Kids these days seem to think google and ctrl+f is the way to do things.

[coudano]

If you are quite proficient with reading and computer skills,
you can control F and pass the test without reading the chapter

MOST cadets are not quite at that level...

I've watched a lot of my cadets think they can go take the test without studying, and rely on the open book thing saving them, and then barely pass, or not pass.

The ones who actually study first, and then try it, typically get high 90's or 100's.


I still see poor retention.  Go back and ask a C/SrA something from chapter 1, and see if they can remember it...
That's no different from the old system however


And I still see some users having trouble navigating the 28 step process of registrations and CBT's to get in to take the test in the first place.

[Ron1319]

I still have at least one case a month where cadets take a test online, say that they passed it, hit submit, and it does not log in the database.  They have all been asked to print the "passing" screen every single time, and immediately go into their progression data in eServices to check and see if the test recorded. 

[MSG Mac]

with my cadets i have noticed that they are having difficulties passing the tests and completely understanding the material.

Ask them why. Most of the time it's because "I kinda did it last minute, and bombed it". Kids these days seem to think google and ctrl+f is the way to do things.

While the tests are "open book", the book should be opened before the test is taken and studied for several hours before the test. I tell my cadets to read the book, learn the material, and then take the test. There are too many cadets who think all they have to do is open the book and search for the answers.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I still see poor retention.  Go back and ask a C/SrA something from chapter 1, and see if they can remember it...

I grew up with L2K and 70% passing closed book paper tests. I've also been gone from activity for 3 years due to college.

BUT, last night I sat in on a review board for a 12 year old C/SrA who had passed all the requirements for the Wright Brothers Award, and was truly impressed by his responses to questions. He wasn't asked things like "Who was Curry?", but more along the lines of what he expected his role as an NCO to be, how he would deal with certain situations, why he should be considered for a staff position, and what he likes and does not like about the unit (and how to improve it). To my surprise, his answers were very impressive, and it was clear that he grasped the material he learned. I wish a 1/10th of 12 year olds could think like this cadet. Maybe he's the exception, but I was under the impression that the new material was drastically different from L2K, but his answers were so spot on with what I learned that it made me want to crack open these new leadership books to see why he grasped the concepts so well.

[coudano]

Maybe he's the exception

I expect, probably so.

Take a wider sample, and let me know if i'm out in left field.