PA Wing Commander Terminated

[flyguy06]

The point is maybe we shouldnt be going around tainting this guys name. Maybe he doesnt want people to know the reason he was relived. Myabe its personal. Would you want somebody to know you failed at your job? I think not. Especially people all over the nation that you dont even know

<WE> didn't taint his name or tell anyone why he was relieved, that was done by the appropriate level of command.
The appropriate level of command dod not post it on CAPTalk for the world to see.

And there is no "tainting" happening here.  There are a few thousand members in PAWG do you really think that press releases are supposed to be private?
Thats my point. Its a PAWG issue, why do the rest of us non PAWG members need to know about it?


These announcements are designed specifically to stop the scuttle that happens in this organization.  It would have been a much worse situation for this gent if members were allowed to continue expressing their hearsay, and opinion about the situation.

I just think its inappropriate topost negative news on a public website about an individual. Its almost libel and its just plain wrong.

[CAPTShaw]

I just think its inappropriate topost negative news on a public website about an individual. Its almost libel and its just plain wrong.

That would be about 98% of all postings to any public web site! Mainly our Media Sites!

[flyguy06]

yes, and that is fine for people that get paid. i am just aying it is a deterent to want to grow in a volunteer organization if youthink people are going to look atyou with a microscope. Its just not worth it in a organization where I do not get paid. CAP should be fun.and not burdensome

[Cecil DP]

Colonel Lee was not maligned. The message from Col Mull simply explained the circumstances and that Col Lee was given time to correct deficiencies and wasn't able to do so. There have been several posting regarding PAWG's failing safety and ORM requirements over the last year. This may have been the reason, but not shown in the Mull message. In the regular military, a Commander can relieve a subordinate commander for simply losing faith in his ability to command. I think that is the bottom line here. You can't fire a Wing-so you fire the Wing Commander.

[CAPSGT]

The removal of a corporate officer deserves SOME sort of explaination.  If it were a squadron or group commander that would be one thing, but when you are somebody with the authority to enter the organization into contracts, administer finances, set national policy, etc. it is a different ballgame.  By putting this explaination out, it opens the doors for all to see what the corporation is doing to protect itself and its assets that the members and the general public are helping to pay for.

As for being almost libel, that would only be the case if what was written was false.  Generally, when something false is written about why somebody being given the axe, it is written in the more positive sense than the truth.

[notaNCO forever]

The removal of a corporate officer deserves SOME sort of explaination.  If it were a squadron or group commander that would be one thing, but when you are somebody with the authority to enter the organization into contracts, administer finances, set national policy, etc. it is a different ballgame.  By putting this explaination out, it opens the doors for all to see what the corporation is doing to protect itself and its assets that the members and the general public are helping to pay for.

As for being almost libel, that would only be the case if what was written was false.  Generally, when something false is written about why somebody being given the axe, it is written in the more positive sense than the truth.

    I think for it to be libel you also need to say something that you know is false intentionally. Personally I think that when someone like a wing commander is relieved their should be a explanation but it should be brief and not heavy on the details. As much as I like gossip like everyone else he it is wrong to make statements about people without them being able to defend themselves and their actions.

[CAPSGT]

My point about the libel was that the statement (knowingly or not) had to be false in the first place to even approach libel.  I agree with you on keeping it brief, which I think this explaination was as brief as it could have been kept.  It gave very general information with a little detail as to why it was done outside the normal 1 year probationary period allowed by regulations, which further keeps the doors open to the workings of the corporation.

[flyguy06]

The removal of a corporate officer deserves SOME sort of explaination.  If it were a squadron or group commander that would be one thing, but when you are somebody with the authority to enter the organization into contracts, administer finances, set national policy, etc. it is a different ballgame.  By putting this explaination out, it opens the doors for all to see what the corporation is doing to protect itself and its assets that the members and the general public are helping to pay for.

As for being almost libel, that would only be the case if what was written was false.  Generally, when something false is written about why somebody being given the axe, it is written in the more positive sense than the truth.

I agree that it deserves some sort of explanation........to the PAWG members, not on a public website

[CAPSGT]

A wing commander of any wing is a corporate officer for the entire corporation.  While they are the primary one in a given state, that does not diminish their ability to impact the rest of the corporation.

[FW]

As of 8 July 2009, Col Mark Lee has been reinstated as the Pennsylvania Wing Commander by the authority of the MARB and the Constitution and Bylaws of Civil Air Patrol.

[JC004]

That's good I guess.  *shrug*  I'm kind of indifferent to the whole thing since I don't understand what really happened, especially considering he was reinstated.  That means it was out of whack.   

[PHall]

As of 8 July 2009, Col Mark Lee has been reinstated as the Pennsylvania Wing Commander by the authority of the MARB and the Constitution and Bylaws of Civil Air Patrol.

Cite please. Not saying you're making this up, but I would like to see something in print.

[IceNine]

Will likely have to wait until after the 1st of August

They have been pretty good about posting the MARB findings in e-services once a month.

I'm sure there will be something coming down but that will outline the MARB actions anyway

[CAPTShaw]

Commander     Colonel David Mull
Vice Commander - North    Major Bret J. Stemrich
Vice Commander - South    Major Sandra E. Brandon

This is what happened with PA WING

[JCJ]

As of 8 July 2009, Col Mark Lee has been reinstated as the Pennsylvania Wing Commander by the authority of the MARB and the Constitution and Bylaws of Civil Air Patrol.

NHQ PERSONNEL ACTION 2009-50 dated 8 July 2009 reports the above action.  It has been distributred to the NEC and the individuals concerned.

[FW]

For those that need "proof".

The reasons for the termination and reinstatement will be posted to the "MARB" page on eservices soon.  All MARB decisions are published for the general membership.

[CAPTShaw]

WOW, now this could be fun?

[RiverAux]

Commander     Colonel David Mull
Vice Commander - North    Major Bret J. Stemrich
Vice Commander - South    Major Sandra E. Brandon

This is what happened with PA WING

Funny, if PA was divided into two I would have thought it would have been East and West rather than North and South based on the shape of the state.

[CAPTShaw]

I though that too, but who am I

[BuckeyeDEJ]

If Pennsylvania Wing is still divided into three groups — west, central and east — having two deputy commanders, especially if they go north and south, doesn't make any sense at all. The state is better defined by the three groups (and maybe the greater Philly area separate from any of the three).