Class B minimum requirements

[StopLoss]

Alright ... I effectively have no mentor, his interests are else where and I'm getting no uniform guidance.  What is the minimum a Senior Member needs for his Class Bs?

AF blue pants
AF blue short sleeve shirt
dress shoes
black dress socks
?
?
?
?

Thanks in advance.

[Major Carrales]

Class B

Here comes that sinking feeling again.

[Eclipse]

Everybody duck!!!!

[Camas]

Alright ... I effectively have no mentor, his interests are else where and I'm getting no uniform guidance.  What is the minimum a Senior Member needs for his Class Bs?

AF blue pants
AF blue short sleeve shirt
dress shoes
black dress socks
?
?
?
?

Thanks in advance.

A short sleeve service uniform would include the items you've listed along with a flight cap, web belt with silver AF belt buckle and appropriate insignia which would include the flight cap crest device, grey nametag and grey shoulder loops depicting insignia of grade.  If you hold a specialty track rating, the appropriate device may be worn centered on either shirt pocket though the left side is normally used. Ribbons, both CAP and military, may be worn as an option just over the left shirt pocket. I'm not going to try to cover everything; please refer to CAPM 39-1. Much of it is out of date but the portion that covers the service uniform is still pretty accurate. Oh yes, we don't call them "Class B's" in CAP or in the Air Force.

[MIKE]

CAPM 39-1 1-5. a. Page 8.

[lordmonar]

Okay.

First...there are a lot of people here (I'm not one) who just hate the use of the old "class-a" "class-b" terms for the Service Dress Uniform.

Second....CAPM 39-1 is your friend.  Yes there a lots of holes and lots of gray areas, and other problems with it, but for 90% of uniform questions it is clear and you should down load a copy.

To answer your question.

The Short Sleeve Service Uniforms consists of the following:

Flight Cap with silver officer (not general officer) braid and Civil Air Patrol Officers insignia
Short Sleeve Shirt
--gray 3 line name tag
--Gray shoulder rank epalautte or CAP cut outs on the collar if you are SM with out grade.
Blue Pants
Blue belt with silver buckel
Black socks
Black Low Quarter shoes or combat boots (don't go with the boots if you can avoid it).
White "V" Neck T-shirt

That is the basic uniform.
ribbons, wings, duty badges and othe doodads are added as you progress.

[SarDragon]

I'll be nice, since his unit leadership is obviously less than stellar.

First thing - there is no such thing as a Class B uniform. Whoever is using that terminology is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Second - in the absence of a competent mentor, CAPM 39-1 is your friend. Pages 21, and 45 through 52 provide the information you seek. Look in the short sleeve shirt column for X's to indicate the necessary items.

[Short Field]

But most of us know what they are.  Following is from the Air Force Times:

Blue Mondays has Class Bs flying off shelves

By Bruce Rolfsen - Staff writer
Posted : Friday Sep 19, 2008 15:29:03 EDT
   
Dress Blues Uniform shops have been busy the last couple weeks. Sales of Class B uniform items such pants, shirts, belts and caps jumped 60 percent in the week following the Sept. 4 announcement that most airmen must wear the blue uniform on Mondays, said Army Lt. Col. Dean Thurmont, spokesman for the Army & Air Force Exchange Service.

Discuss the new "blue Monday" policy with other readers
The rush created a temporary shortage of belts and enlisted caps and AAFES is working with suppliers to get the items back in stock, he added.

Since 2001, when airmen were allowed to wear their ABU, BDU or flight suit every day to reflect that the nation was at war, many have gone months without wearing their blue uniforms.

[Eclipse]

If you are a Senior Member Without Grade (SMWOG), you wear silver metal CAP "cutouts" on the collar of your shirt, and you do not wear any epaulet sleeves - just leave your shoulders empty.

The blank epaulet sleeves sold at Vanguard are not intended for this purpose.

Further, if you are an SMWOG, the flight cap you wear is the enlisted type with the blue braid, not the silver.

The above is true until you are appointed to 2d Lt., at which time you remove the cutouts, get the appropriate epaulet sleeves, and change the flight cap.

[flyguy06]

There is no such thing as a class B uniform in CAP

[Eclipse]

There is no such thing as a class B uniform in CAP

Cite...((*snicker*))...((*snort*))...I can't get it out...   

[PHall]

But most of us know what they are.  Following is from the Air Force Times:

Blue Mondays has Class Bs flying off shelves

By Bruce Rolfsen - Staff writer
Posted : Friday Sep 19, 2008 15:29:03 EDT
   
Dress Blues Uniform shops have been busy the last couple weeks. Sales of Class B uniform items such pants, shirts, belts and caps jumped 60 percent in the week following the Sept. 4 announcement that most airmen must wear the blue uniform on Mondays, said Army Lt. Col. Dean Thurmont, spokesman for the Army & Air Force Exchange Service.

Discuss the new "blue Monday" policy with other readers
The rush created a temporary shortage of belts and enlisted caps and AAFES is working with suppliers to get the items back in stock, he added.

Since 2001, when airmen were allowed to wear their ABU, BDU or flight suit every day to reflect that the nation was at war, many have gone months without wearing their blue uniforms.

Considering that the same writers who write stuff for the Air Force Times also write stuff for the Army Times, the Navy Times and the Marine Corps Times, I'm not exactly surprised they get stuff like that wrong.

But a little proof reading would have been nice...

[StopLoss]

Hats off for the constructive feedback from the forum members.  "I'll be nice, since his unit leadership is obviously less than stellar", I'll show more decorum and re-frame from my personal assessment least it undermine the chain of command.  With the new change of command we've just had I'm in hopes there will be a renewed sense of direction for the new senior members.  The immediate need is for some basic guidance, when I'm given the opportunity to mentor I'll ensure anyone assigned to me is squared away up front and not on the back side.   Wading through the CAP website and manuals, in true military fashion, is less than intuitive. 

Recommendations heeded, I've got a copy of CAPM 39-1.

Thanks again.

[jimmydeanno]

If you are wanting to be an agent of change in your unit, there is a good bunch of people here that are more than happy to offer constructive advice and information.  Just because there isn't anyone to be an active mentor for you at your unit currently, doesn't mean that you need to start alone and without direction.

If you need any type of information, please don't hesitate to drop a PM and I'll help if I can.

Oh, and welcome to CAPTalk

[Major Carrales]

People, you cannot merely point people blindly to regulations...there is a lot to be said for proper guidance and mentoring for new members.

I have long pitied the cadets that come here for guidance and are constantly knocked down by people too annoyed by a newbie question to answer constructively or the uniform NATIONAL SOCIALIST WORKERS PARTY that occasionally rears its head.

We need to start helping each other out, especially new people, or else all the self righteous posturing many of you put up is is no more than mindless rhetorical drivel. 

And don't insult anyone's intelligence here with a "if you can't stand the fire, stay out of the kitchen" or "you don't have to read the posts if you don't agree" arguments.  Simply help a brother or sister CAP airman out.  Is that too much to ask? They come here for help and we throw up a wall of discourtesy. 

[lordmonar]

People, you cannot merely point people blindly to regulations...there is a lot to be said for proper guidance and mentoring for new members.

I have long pitied the cadets that come here for guidance and are constantly knocked down by people too annoyed by a newbie question to answer constructively or the uniform NATIONAL SOCIALIST WORKERS PARTY that occasionally rears its head.

We need to start helping each other out, especially new people, or else all the self righteous posturing many of you put up is is no more than mindless rhetorical drivel. 

And don't insult anyone's intelligence here with a "if you can't stand the fire, stay out of the kitchen" or "you don't have to read the posts if you don't agree" arguments.  Simply help a brother or sister CAP airman out.  Is that too much to ask? They come here for help and we throw up a wall of discourtesy.

We also can't coddle new members.  One of the reasons why we have cowboy senior members and cadets out there doing their own thing is because they have never read the regulations.

No one has ever forced them to look it up themselves.   SM Newguy learns from SM Oldguy that boonie hats are just fine, and you wear wing patches on your "class A's" and that you can drop your cadets anytime you want.

So when SM Newguy says....help I don't know the answer....I point them in the right direction and give them the "right now" information that they need.

Sure we need to cut the newbys some slack....but not much.

[Major Carrales]

We also can't coddle new members.  One of the reasons why we have cowboy senior members and cadets out there doing their own thing is because they have never read the regulations.

With all do respect I can't see that as coddling.  The only thing worse than a CAP Officer or Cadet that has never read the regulations is on that has read them and applied them under a misinterpretation.

You know as well as I do that there are those that can make apply any regulation under any interpretation they desire.  I have seen this happen both on purpose and on accident.  The results being detrimental to all involved.

Sending newbies to the regs without the benefit of the guiding hand of experience is asking for screw ups.  I know first hand, when I first started working in my Unit my then Group Commander would address my questions with "its all in the regs" and then get all bent out of shape when we didn't interpret the regs as it was intended.

No, Sir..."go to the REGS" is a cop out. You have more than an obligation to guide them, you have a duty.

No one has ever forced them to look it up themselves.   SM Newguy learns from SM Oldguy that boonie hats are just fine, and you wear wing patches on your "class A's" and that you can drop your cadets anytime you want.

The practice you describe above is a problem only for people who do not let their "regs" and "policies" walk hand-in-hand.  No one is saying "don't read the regs, just do what I do," I am saying you had better guide them. 

So when SM Newguy says....help I don't know the answer....I point them in the right direction and give them the "right now" information that they need.

So, what issue are you taking with what I am saying?

Sure we need to cut the newbys some slack....but not much.

Remember, recruiting officer, those people you are trying to use tough love on are new to the program and do not have the emotional investment in it to always react in the manner you hope.  Those are brother and sister CAP airmen who are alone with the regs 166 hours a week and who take 2 hours (likely the timeit takes to ask and answer  question) of your time for clarification at meeting.  How about being a brother officer and guide them?

[SarDragon]

I provided a link to the reg. I pointed out some page numbers to look at. I gave a bit of instruction on which column to look in for the uniform he had a Q about. If there's a lack of understanding, then we can do Q&A on the finer points. Is that so wrong? I "showed him how to fish".

[Major Carrales]

I provided a link to the reg. I pointed out some page numbers to look at. I gave a bit of instruction on which column to look in for the uniform he had a Q about. If there's a lack of understanding, then we can do Q&A on the finer points. Is that so wrong? I "showed him how to fish".

He came here asking for a mentor. He effectively has no mentor, because the interests of that person are else where and he was getting no uniform guidance.  I am sure he can read a regulation.  If reading the regulations was all it took, then there would be no need to come to a forum like this.

All you have done by posting the following...

I'll be nice, since his unit leadership is obviously less than stellar.

First thing - there is no such thing as a Class B uniform. Whoever is using that terminology is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Second - in the absence of a competent mentor, CAPM 39-1 is your friend. Pages 21, and 45 through 52 provide the information you seek. Look in the short sleeve shirt column for X's to indicate the necessary items.

Is sort of swagger (as much as can be done in a forum of this sort) demonstrating that "you know stuff" and he "doesn't."

What you should have said was...

In the absence of a mentor, let me first say that CAP and the USAF do not have uniform "classes."  We call what you are describing "minimum basic service dress."  Some people bring in the lingo of other services to CAP, however the proper terms should be used.

The proper items are listed in CAP Manual 39-1,  Pages 21, and 45 through 52 provide the information you seek. Look in the short sleeve shirt column for X's to indicate the necessary items.

Said manual can be found here...
http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/u_082203102943.pdf

A nice, informative guiding hand without all the "swagger."  Odds are a newbie might not know what "CAPM" means and saying "wrong, wrong, wrong" in that manner is more reminiscent of Col Wilhelm Klink than a Civil Air Patrol Lt Col.  Your comments on his unit leadership are also unbecoming.

You also provided no link to the manual.  Teaching a man to fish with no water, rod or reel is a bit of a sticky wicket now. isn't it?

[SarDragon]

Well, tact has never been one of my strong points.

That said, I DID provide a link. Look at my post again. I failed to underline the link in my usual manner, but there's one there, underlined this time -

Second - in the absence of a competent mentor, CAPM 39-1 is your friend. Pages 21, and 45 through 52 provide the information you seek. Look in the short sleeve shirt column for X's to indicate the necessary items.

It appears that we have different approaches to this issue, yours perhaps a little more friendly, mine more utilitarian. But, I have provided information, however sparse, and all you have done is deride us for our attitudes.

If I really had an "I know stuff and he doesn't" attitude, I would never have provided anything more than "look in CAPM 39-1" (no link) and left it at that. Now, let's try to continue to help this guy, instead of abetting a urination competition.