Dual Cool. Which one?

[NIN]

Wings over wings (Observer over Lead Sleds)!

This, BTW, is my preference.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

The KB can't give the green light to anything, they can only quote existing regulations.

Look around the room next time you are with other members wearing CAP uniformm, no one else
will be using velcro.  You won't find a single reference to velcro in regards to field uniforms in 39-1 or
any ICL.

I have seen about six in one day on SAREX, it was a good one too.

Velcro has no place on the BDU's or field uniform.  No one changes any of the insignias on the uniform
often enough to warrant it, nor are any of the insignias made of leather or plastic.  There is no need to
"sanitize" your insignia as the likelihood of capture by Seas Cadets or the CGAux is very low, and they
prescribe to the Lake Geneva (WI) accords which prohibits the abuse of Prisoners of Starbucks.

Properly cared for, the cloth badges will not run or turn the thread blue.

I have had the threads turn blue before. The first washing, I had a blue pip just a little lighter than the field around it.

Now the sensitization thing is awesome. I think you have too much free time to think this stuff up lol.

[flyboy53]

Wings over wings (Observer over Lead Sleds)!

I would go with Observer wings over Airborne. I like the dichotomy of CAP and Military.

Me too!

I wear observer over USAF Security Forces qualification badge (yes, I wear the old one that I was issued)

[BuckeyeDEJ]

I'd suggest the jump wings. Especially if you want street cred with cadets. It also shows a level of diligence and dedication. Ain't a bad thing.

[Stonewall]

Not an earth shattering decision to make, but for some reason I'm crossed.

Like what Buckeye said, "street cred" with cadets is a factor here, to me.  As a cadet, when someone walked in with some sort of "scare badge" like jump wings or air assault, or even Navy pilot wings, we were instantly inspired.  Obviously, as an adult, and having earned such wings, I know that they're simply a piece of medal that cost $4.50 and put holes in my shirt.  Also, I don't think any of the cadets at my squadron have taken notice of my uniform.  Times have changed, or perhaps our cadets are just different.

Ironically, it took me much longer and more attention to detail, follow up, and persistence, to earn the Master GTM badge than it did to earn jump wings.  And observer was no different.  It took 2 weeks of ground training with a lot of PT, followed by a week of jumping from planes.  Really, pretty easy.

I think I'm leaning more towards OBS over GTM.  If I get a third set of BDUs one day I'll go with OBS over ABN.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Stonewall makes an interesting point, in that to him, the GTM badge was more work than the jump wings.

In the military, seems to me, you're paid to do what you do, and it's your job, and it's regimented, arranged and scheduled. So getting jump wings may not seem like much, compared to the hoops you might jump through and the waiting you might do to get a GTM badge.

However, I would say that earning the jump wings took a level of dedication that getting a GTM badge doesn't. You don't volunteer to get jump wings in the same way you would a GTM badge or any other rating in CAP. You can walk away from CAP for a couple of months and come back and finish qualifying, all on your own time; you can't do that in the armed forces. Everything in CAP is an option, where, say, in the Army, once you volunteer and sign on the dotted line, you don't get to volunteer anymore — your butt belongs to Uncle Sam. Yours is not to reason why.

You can choose what you want, but I think your Real Military service speaks more, especially to the people you may care to influence within CAP's ranks, than the GTM. Speaking, of course, as someone who wears the wings and GTM, but whose only connection to jump wings is through his dad (an Airborne ranger, back when they were shootin' in Korea).

[Майор Хаткевич]

I'm mixed on it, so I'd say do what feels right. If I see the badge, it tells me you're prior service and have cool stories to share. If I don't see it, it will probably come up in conversation at some point. Most cadets these days do not know the military badges that well, so they may ask if they are aware enough and not familiar, but just being prior service will cue them into asking you questions.

[Slim]

I say forget the regs and go for the tower of power.




/sarcasm

[RogueLeader]

However, I would say that earning the jump wings took a level of dedication that getting a GTM badge doesn't. You don't volunteer to get jump wings in the same way you would a GTM badge or any other rating in CAP. You can walk away from CAP for a couple of months and come back and finish qualifying, all on your own time; you can't do that in the armed forces. Everything in CAP is an option, where, say, in the Army, once you volunteer and sign on the dotted line, you don't get to volunteer anymore — your butt belongs to Uncle Sam. Yours is not to reason why.

Being in the Army, I had the option to volunteer to go to jump school.  I could NOT be ordered to go.  In my unit, I was HIGHLY encouraged to volunteer to go.  I absolutely refused.  I got put on some not so fun details for my refusal, but they can NOT take any adverse actions against me.  I could have volunteered then close out my jump log, but thats not right.

So yes, you can volunteer in the Army.

[Stonewall]

I absolutely refused.

Boggles my mind.

[RogueLeader]

I absolutely refused.

Boggles my mind.

Turns out that it didn't matter in the long run, as I was PEB'd out. 

You can't force someone to volunteer for a billet that's not part of their MOS.  If you want to jump out of aircraft, fine.  That doesn't bother me one bit.  The fact that I don't shouldn't bother you.

[Stonewall]

I absolutely refused.

Boggles my mind.

Turns out that it didn't matter in the long run, as I was PEB'd out. 

You can't force someone to volunteer for a billet that's not part of their MOS.  If you want to jump out of aircraft, fine.  That doesn't bother me one bit.  The fact that I don't shouldn't bother you.

I'm aware that you can't force someone to do what they don't want to do.  I'm just surprised that you absolutely refused.  Your decision.  Not judging, just surprised.

[Rick-DEL]

I would go with Observer wings over Airborne. I like the dichotomy of CAP and Military.

I agree.

[Luis R. Ramos]

I do not know how some people can argue that "Velcro is not authorized" to hold insignias in place in the BDU uniform. Very easily I can also make the claim that since it is not mentioned in the appropriate regulations, it is not unauthorized. If Velcro is not unauthorized, therefore, I can use it.

I used Velcro for the Wing patches in the coats with no problems. You cut it around the patch, and no one knows you are wearing. If on the other hand, you wear it as I have seen on military uniforms, it is not pretty and everyone knows you use it. In the case of the Wings and GT badges, a square or rectangular patch of Velcro the same size, and careful application of the insignia on it, is not a give away. I never had any problem as to a seat belt "ripping" my patch off.

Now, I do not use it since these patches are not worn on the coats used with the Blues.

As to "sanitize," well, we do not need to "sanitize" these uniforms for the reason the military do, but there are times I wear those coats when in civies. If CAP regs, and practice is not to use uniform items when not going to an activity, then I had to "sanitize" my coat. Right?  :angel:

Flyer

[68w20]

I do not know how some people can argue that "Velcro is not authorized" to hold insignias in place in the BDU uniform. Very easily I can also make the claim that since it is not mentioned in the appropriate regulations, it is not unauthorized. If Velcro is not unauthorized, therefore, I can use it.

Seriously? CAPM 39-1 Ch 1, Para 1-1 says...

COMPLIANCE WITH
THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized.
Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear.

[NIN]

^^ That should just about cover the flyby..

[Brad]

I do not know how some people can argue that "Velcro is not authorized" to hold insignias in place in the BDU uniform. Very easily I can also make the claim that since it is not mentioned in the appropriate regulations, it is not unauthorized. If Velcro is not unauthorized, therefore, I can use it.

Seriously? CAPM 39-1 Ch 1, Para 1-1 says...

COMPLIANCE WITH
THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized.
Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear.

I agree with you, 68w10, but just to play Devil's Advocate I offer that, in the same vein as the velcro suggested on BDUs, neither velcro used to hold patches on flightsuits or clutchbacks for pin-on devices are mentioned in CAPR 39-1, and yet we all use them.

Unless you're Ned Lee, that guy just holds his stuff on with the power of his mind.

[NIN]

Unless you're Ned Lee, that guy just holds his stuff on with the power of his mind.

39-1 says insignia will be sewn, not held on with any Jedi Mind Trick action. So if Ned really does that, he, too, would be in violation of 39-1.

[Brad]

39-1 says insignia will be sewn...

May have missed it, but where? I did a PDF search for "sew" and "sewn" and the only thing I find is the bit about the USAF inspection tag on approved garments.

[NIN]

39-1 says insignia will be sewn...

May have missed it, but where? I did a PDF search for "sew" and "sewn" and the only thing I find is the bit about the USAF inspection tag on approved garments.

Aww, you're gonna make me look this up?  <Jedi Mind trick wave>

"This isn't the manual you're looking for.."

You make a good point: nowhere in that manual does it specify the actual method for attaching. It says where it will be, what it will be composed of, and that you should not have raw edges showing, but it does not go into detail as to the HOW of attachment.

Then again, there are probably dozens of things like that in the manual where they're not going to go into great gory graphic detail as to the exact/precise whys and wherefores.  (hemming comes to mind).

ETA: I am reminded, however, that the location of the chow hall on the Windward Side of Gitmo is not listed in the Rifle Security Company's manual, yet everybody seems to get three squares a day.