CAP Fatigue Uniform Proposal

[lordmonar]

All the CAP-USAF guys I have talked to don't really care about the weight issue.....as much as the "not reading the fracking manual" issue. 

[abdsp51]

And looking more corporate and potentially looking like the Keystone Cops is the way to go? 
And IMO I doubt it is the greatest issue dividing CAP and the AF. 

[lordmonar]

And looking more corporate and potentially looking like the Keystone Cops is the way to go? 
And IMO I doubt it is the greatest issue dividing CAP and the AF.

+1

I think the greatest issue divinding CAP and the AF is the self licking ice cream cone of governance, the fact that the wing/region/national staff spend so much time writing regulations and voting of trivia....in stead of setting policy.

But hopefuly that may change.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Because it is the greatest single source of division between CAP and the Air Force...too many members (some quite senior in grade or position) who do not meet the standards wear the USAF style uniform anyway.

I doubt it's the "greatest single source of division," and any division is most likely on the CAP side, not the AF side.  Ever since the days of the berry boards CAP upper echelons have walked on eggshells afraid that the slightest infraction will tick off the AF and we'd be back to the berry boards, or worse.

Most of the Air Force doesn't even know who we are.

We don't need it to do our jobs, and giving it up voluntarily would go a long way to bridging the gap between us and the USAF in general...AF members would stop viewing us as a bunch of 'wannabes' besmirching their uniform; instances of CAP seniors trolling for salutes should virtually disappear.

Now you sound like RM with the "wannabes" bit.

Would you tell that to the members of the Coast Guard Auxiliary, who proudly (and very largely without friction) wear their parent service's uniform?

Or to the State Defence Forces who have Air Wings, who have NO connection to the Air Force, except through their support of the ANG, yet wear the AF uniform with even less "distinctive" markings than those imposed on CAP?

Look, I started as a cadet a long time ago, loved the idea of wearing AF uniform, and really do understand the position of those that want to keep it...but I think it has become a luxury CAP cannot afford for its senior members.

Well, the day I have to give up the connection to our parent service and look like a mall cop-cum-Realtor (no offence to either of those) to be an effective CAP member is the day when I look for pastures new.  Why?  Because that will tell me that the organisation which I have given so much of my life to no longer trusts me with an historical link going way back to before I was even born.

[krnlpanick]

^^^^  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[ColonelJack]

Hear hear, CyBorg!

:clap:

Jack

[abdsp51]

Honestly, the AF didn't take any uniform away from any member.  They simply set a standard for wear of the uniform and there is an alternate available for those who choose not to comply or those who can't for a medical reasons or something along those lines. 

Outside of the suspected trolling for salutes or some other asinine thing,  we are our own worst enemy in the realm of critics and public relations. 

Most of my leadership know what Civil Air Patrol is and most of them know I rejoined and spend my time there.  If we wanted to be corporate organization and corporate only what else would we have to offer outside of the Scouts, FFA, or FBLA? 

Many kids join for the military paramilitary aspect because it is the only program that offers it locally due to now JROTC nearby. 

As far as wannabes they will sort themselves out by what they do and do/n't know. 

[AngelWings]

We're free recruiting for the USAF when we wear CAP uniforms, not because we're trying to recruit people into the USAF but because we wear a USAF style uniform that many people think USAF, so I can rest easy knowing the USAF doesn't care if we wear it or not (as long as we don't look disgusting or try to troll). Plus, the one unanswered question is "Who in the USAF who has authority said we're not able to get ABU's?". Until someone gives us a definitive answer on the matter, everything saying we're not or we are getting ABU's is grapevine. We've managed to beat a dead horse back to life only to torture it slowly back to death.

Wannabes are no problem for us as long as they do not act up and falsly claim acheivements (like being in the military). What problem is it if LT Dufflebags wants to feel like he is in the Air Force (saying he gets his work done to/above standard)? We're entitled to some self credit and feeling like we're BA, because quite frankly we are. We should make an effort to distinguish a wannabe from a faker, with a wannabe being just that, a want to be, whereas a faker is actively trying to claim to be something they're not.

All of this "We should all go to this non-USAF uniform or that non-USAF uniform" is really... unique. What good is it to go to any uniform if we're going to go away from a military uniform when it comes towards utilities? I'd rather buy some desert tan 5.11 pants to go with my tan goretex bellevilles and put on a CAP polo and be done with it. That way, we'll eliminate any means of CAP members not being able to procure a utility uniform and I get to be extremely comfortable.

ANY uniform option we get is going to make SOMEONE upset. I've just come to accept the fact that whatever we get, I'll wear proudly and do my duties above the standard.

To add, we're winning a Guinness World Record page for two things: Worlds most fashion stressed organization and the record for the longest beating of a dead horse. Wait, another one: The worlds most brutal torture session to an animal, with that being the horse we've poked and kicked around for so long.

YMMV.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

To add, we're winning a Guinness World Record page for two things: Worlds most fashion stressed organization and the record for the longest beating of a dead horse. Wait, another one: The worlds most brutal torture session to an animal, with that being the horse we've poked and kicked around for so long.

That brutalised equine has been tortured since at least the imposition of the berry boards.  I came in right after that and the organisation was still kind of punch-drunk and there was some veiled (and open) resentment toward the Air Force that the whole lot of us got our collective butts kicked just because of the actions of a few bad actors.

I think that was the spark that started most of the uniform shenanigans.  The botched way the CSU was taken from us was another example of "thank you sir may I have another?"

I would like to see the Air Force tell SDF Air Wings that they have to do at least as much to look "distinctive" (whatever that word's supposed to mean) as we do.  The most I've seen is assortments of different nameplates, collar brass and buttons.

[AngelWings]

To add, we're winning a Guinness World Record page for two things: Worlds most fashion stressed organization and the record for the longest beating of a dead horse. Wait, another one: The worlds most brutal torture session to an animal, with that being the horse we've poked and kicked around for so long.

That brutalised equine has been tortured since at least the imposition of the berry boards.  I came in right after that and the organisation was still kind of punch-drunk and there was some veiled (and open) resentment toward the Air Force that the whole lot of us got our collective butts kicked just because of the actions of a few bad actors.

I think that was the spark that started most of the uniform shenanigans.  The botched way the CSU was taken from us was another example of "thank you sir may I have another?"

I would like to see the Air Force tell SDF Air Wings that they have to do at least as much to look "distinctive" (whatever that word's supposed to mean) as we do.  The most I've seen is assortments of different nameplates, collar brass and buttons.

To me it seems like PTSD from most of the members who cry for "distinctive" uniforms.

[Eclipse]

To me it seems like PTSD from most of the members who cry for "distinctive" uniforms.

"cry"?

Please, elaborate.  A significant number of our members, likely the majority (especially when you consider those members who own blues but not mirrors),
have no choice but the distinctive variants.  These members do the lion's share of the actual work in CAP, yet do not have a full catalog of uniforms which is both equal and fulfills the mission.

Until there is a service-dress equivalent for the majority of the membership, they will continue to be treated as, and look like, tennis judges.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I can live with the gray pants and the aviator shirt, I even like how they look if worn right, but someone, PLEASE get me a cover that is NOT a baseball cap.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I can live with the gray pants and the aviator shirt, I even like how they look if worn right, but someone, PLEASE get me a cover that is NOT a baseball cap.

You'll catch it for that...every time I've mentioned any kind of headdress someone starts in with how they don't like hats, period, and how goofy it would look for CAP members with a ponytail...though I have never, in all my years in CAP, actually seen a CAP member with a ponytail.  I used to have one occasionally when I'd tie my hair back to mow the lawn...but that was when I was 17 years old.

You will not get the "no-hat brigade" to agree on any kind of hat...I know, I've tried.

The most common reason given?  "I don't want to pay for another uniform item!"

Beret?  "Too French," "special ops only," "impossible to make look good," "offers no protection," "hated the [darn] thing when I had to wear it in the Army."

Flight/overseas/garrison cap?  "It'll make the Air Force mad,"  "flies off the head too easily," "looks stupid on those with long hair."

Visor (airline) type?  "It'll make people confuse us with cops."

When I've suggested it be optional?  "Defeats the whole purpose of being 'uniform'."

OHFUHCRYINOUTLOUD!!!!!!!

I have considered getting an old East German Air Force side cap, take the insignia off and wear it until someone senior in rank to me tells me not to.  After all, the bloody thing is grey, and very close in shade to our shoulder marks/nameplate, and they can be found on the cheap all over the Net.



I would have much more use for the aviator shirt uniform (I wear it occasionally, grudgingly) if it had a blue airline-type shirt, the same cut as we have now, made by Van Heusen:



However, that usually brings out the "it'll make the AF mad!" crowd.

And don't get me started on the blazer...I don't own one and won't own one.  Thankfully I can wear the AF dress blues when need be.

[Critical AOA]

I can live with the gray pants and the aviator shirt, I even like how they look if worn right, but someone, PLEASE get me a cover that is NOT a baseball cap.

While I do prefer the aviator shirt with gray pants over the blues, I mostly wear the blue golf shirt with gray pants.  In fact in the short 2.5 years since I rejoined CAP, I have only worn the aviator shirt twice.  All other times it has been the blue golf shirt or occasionally a flight suit.  I actually prefer a ball cap with the golf shirt, especially when flying.  With the white aviator shirt, I do not see the need for a hat at all though a fedora would work. 

[Garibaldi]

I can live with the gray pants and the aviator shirt, I even like how they look if worn right, but someone, PLEASE get me a cover that is NOT a baseball cap.

While I do prefer the aviator shirt with gray pants over the blues, I mostly wear the blue golf shirt with gray pants.  In fact in the short 2.5 years since I rejoined CAP, I have only worn the aviator shirt twice.  All other times it has been the blue golf shirt or occasionally a flight suit.  I actually prefer a ball cap with the golf shirt, especially when flying.  With the white aviator shirt, I do not see the need for a hat at all though a fedora would work. 

Our unit already has an Indy, thank you very much...but I carry the bullwhip 

[ZigZag911]

Just to clarify:

1) I am not 'against' the military uniform
2) the reality is that many, if not most, seniors do not meet grooming standards
3) the 'fashion confused' perspective would be eliminated if all seniors wore the same uniform, which could include some sort of hat (flight cap in appropriate color?)
4) CAP-USAF I've talked to seem very focused on weight as well as following uniform regs, but that may be a coincidence of who I've talked to
5) I admit I over-stated saying the uniform issue is the biggest division between CAP and Air Force...governance is undoubtedly a greater concern, one I too hope gets resolved.

[Critical AOA]

I can live with the gray pants and the aviator shirt, I even like how they look if worn right, but someone, PLEASE get me a cover that is NOT a baseball cap.

While I do prefer the aviator shirt with gray pants over the blues, I mostly wear the blue golf shirt with gray pants.  In fact in the short 2.5 years since I rejoined CAP, I have only worn the aviator shirt twice.  All other times it has been the blue golf shirt or occasionally a flight suit.  I actually prefer a ball cap with the golf shirt, especially when flying.  With the white aviator shirt, I do not see the need for a hat at all though a fedora would work. 

Our unit already has an Indy, thank you very much...but I carry the bullwhip 

Used no doubt to enforce 39-1.