Family WWII CAP Service... a 12 year revival...

Started by PhoenixRisen, November 13, 2020, 06:20:14 PM

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PhoenixRisen

Adding a few new items to share on an old topic...

Twelve years ago, I posted this thread after finding actual video of family members (great aunt and great uncle) that were in CAP during WWII.  My now-late grandmother told me about their involvement in CAP around that same time, after I had been in CAP myself for 5 years as a cadet.

Earlier this year, I begun to search for more information on their involvement in hopes that I would be able to get them both posthumously awarded the Congressional Gold Medal.  This was eventually approved for both of them, and once COVID settles down, we will resume planning the ceremony.

Two of the items my family has found are below.  One is a Staff Officer Appointment certificate for my great uncle, and the other is a photo that includes my great aunt (second from right).  These are rough phone photos... I'm waiting on scanned copies.  Finally, the third photo is a combined shadow box that my extended family had for both of these relatives.  It includes items from both of their CAP service, as well as other service they performed (Army, American Red Cross?, etc.).

IMG-1111" border="0 IMG-1183" border="0 IMG-1184" border="0

One thing I'd love to get more info on is the rank structure from back then as it relates to their service and duties.  From the photos I've seen, my great uncle was a Master Sergeant before receiving this appointment to Second Lieutenant.  My great aunt also appears to be wearing Warrant Officer insignia, which also appears to be in the shadow box.  I don't believe either were ever pilots, and not much is known about what they actually did... I figure this may not be much to go on.

I hope everyone finds this interesting!

wacapgh

According to my copy of "Civil Air Patrol Handbook 1944 Edition"

The CAP Service Ribbon "the color of the stripe  to denote total years of service of continuous service since enlistment in CAP and total number of hours actually devoted to CAP work including both ground and flying duties and the volunteer work of Wing units as well as duties on operations assignments."

a Green stripes - Minimum 250 actual working hours and minimum of one year enlistment in CAP.

b Red stripes - Minimum 500 hours and 18 months enlistment in CAP.

c Blue stripes - Minimum 1000 hours and two years enlistment in CAP.

You wore one ribbon at a time, replacing it with the next higher award. Red replaces Green, and finally Blue replaces Red. The propeller disc has one blade pointing up, so the Blue(?) ribbon on the right should be flipped around.

The Grade system is just as complicated then as is now. The short version is NCO grades are tied to "Ratings" each requiring completion of specific training courses for each rating.
Example -  Rating 1, Private:
Course
31-1 Civil Air Patrol – 3 hours
32-1 Courtesy and Discipline -3 hours
32-2A Infantry Drill - 5 hours
32-3 Safeguarding Military Information – 1 hour
32-4 Articles of War – 1 hour
Any other CAP courses 12

For a Master Sergeant, 225 hours to earn Rating 5 and one of the following -  Private Pilot or higher; A&E Mechanic; Parachute Rigger; Radiotelegraph or Radiotelephone Class 2; Radio Amateur; or CAA Ground Instructor.

A Warrant Officer has to meet all of the above plus either a Restricted Radiotelephone license or higher, or Pilot with at least 200 hours total and 15 or more hours of CAP flight training.

Officer grades were tied directly to what position you were holding. Second Lieutenant as described on the certificate was for being assigned as a Squadron staff officer. A Flight Leader or an Assistant Group Staff Officer could also be appointed as a 2nd Lt. You revert back to your "permanent" grade when the assignment ends.

Jester

Quote from: wacapgh on November 13, 2020, 11:44:23 PMAccording to my copy of "Civil Air Patrol Handbook 1944 Edition"


Is this a digital version by chance?

Brit_in_CAP

Quote from: Jester on November 19, 2020, 04:52:45 PM
Quote from: wacapgh on November 13, 2020, 11:44:23 PMAccording to my copy of "Civil Air Patrol Handbook 1944 Edition"


Is this a digital version by chance?

I'll second that question!  Fascinating read, I suspect.

PhoenixRisen

Quote from: wacapgh on November 13, 2020, 11:44:23 PMAccording to my copy of "Civil Air Patrol Handbook 1944 Edition"

Thank you for the information!!  Seconding others here... if this is something that you have in a digital copy... I'd love to see it!

I'm quite intrigued by the description of the Warrant Officer rank.... if that truly is what is on my great aunt's collar, that is crazy awesome!

NIN

#5
*EDITED*

I'm reasonably certain that the OP's intent for this topic wasn't a catfight between a condescending know-it-all or a pedantic ingenue.

I've split the posts that were off topic and I've unlocked the thread.

Keep it on topic, or find a way to take it to email or something.

Carry on.
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
Wing Dude, National Bubba
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Brit_in_CAP

Personally, I found this very interesting.  I never ceased to be amazed by the things that turn up from this type of search.

I was able to find my Father's cadet squadron numbers from his days in the Air Training Corps, around the time that the OPs parents were in CAP.  Both organizations were founded around the same time, albeit with different missions.  We also found a picture of the squadron.

The numbers were pinned on the collars of their WW1-style uniform blouses!

I donated those, and the picture we found, to the modern-day successor squadron, for their history table. 

Good luck with the rest of your search - well worth the effort!

754837

#7
I found a PDF of the manual... am trying to upload.

PhoenixRisen

Any luck with the upload?  I'm not seeing anything.

wacapgh

Quote from: Brit_in_CAP on November 19, 2020, 08:47:01 PM
Quote from: Jester on November 19, 2020, 04:52:45 PM
Quote from: wacapgh on November 13, 2020, 11:44:23 PMAccording to my copy of "Civil Air Patrol Handbook 1944 Edition"


Is this a digital version by chance?

I'll second that question!  Fascinating read, I suspect.

Actual hard copy. All of about 1/4" thick.  The "Big Blue Binder" I bought as a Cadet in the late 70's was about 4 inches thick.

754837

Quote from: PhoenixRisen on November 23, 2020, 08:36:36 PMAny luck with the upload?  I'm not seeing anything.

Negative - I tried several times with no luck.  I might not have rights to upload a document that large.

754837


jeders

Quote from: 754837 on November 24, 2020, 02:34:24 PM
Quote from: PhoenixRisen on November 23, 2020, 08:36:36 PMAny luck with the upload?  I'm not seeing anything.

Negative - I tried several times with no luck.  I might not have rights to upload a document that large.

The best way to share something like that here is to put it in something like a Google drive or Dropbox and then share the shareable link.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

SD0044

I've been looking for a roster of the non-flying CAP personnel assigned to Base 1 (Atlantic City) during the active Coastal Patrol phase.   My Dad (Lt Vernon Jeffries) was a Observer/bombardier, and Pilot and was awarded the CSM.  However I've been told that my mom (as a member) worked the plotting boards and the radio as well.   She was not carried on the "combatant's roster" as they were not exposed to possible enemy action at the base and I've never seen any other rosters of personnel so assigned.

If anyone has ANY info on where one could ask I'd certainly like to be informed.
Thanks in advance even if just for looking.

Dave Jeffries, Lt. Col. CAP    ;D
david.jeffries@sdwg.cap.gov



NC Hokie

NC Hokie, Lt Col, CAP

Graduated Squadron Commander
All Around Good Guy

skymaster

Quote from: jeders on November 24, 2020, 03:29:37 PM
Quote from: 754837 on November 24, 2020, 02:34:24 PM
Quote from: PhoenixRisen on November 23, 2020, 08:36:36 PMAny luck with the upload?  I'm not seeing anything.

Negative - I tried several times with no luck.  I might not have rights to upload a document that large.

The best way to share something like that here is to put it in something like a Google drive or Dropbox and then share the shareable link.


Something like this? From the Georgia State Guard Air and Space Force historical archives:Civil Air Patrol Handbook - 1944 Edition

skymaster

Quote from: SD0044 on March 31, 2023, 09:25:06 PMI've been looking for a roster of the non-flying CAP personnel assigned to Base 1 (Atlantic City) during the active Coastal Patrol phase.  My Dad (Lt Vernon Jeffries) was a Observer/bombardier, and Pilot and was awarded the CSM.  However I've been told that my mom (as a member) worked the plotting boards and the radio as well.  She was not carried on the "combatant's roster" as they were not exposed to possible enemy action at the base and I've never seen any other rosters of personnel so assigned.

If anyone has ANY info on where one could ask I'd certainly like to be informed.
Thanks in advance even if just for looking.

Dave Jeffries, Lt. Col. CAP    ;D
david.jeffries@sdwg.cap.gov




Here is the CAP Coastal Patrol Roster and Certificate of Belligerency list on file provided by the U.S. Air Force and the National Guard Bureau to the Georgia State Guard Air Force. Keep in mind that even personnel back at the base (including members of both genders and office personnel such as plotting board operators and mechanics, and not just pilots) are also specifically included as legal belligerents on the list. However, in order to qualify for a Certificate of Belligerency under the regulations of the time, the individual would have to have completed 100 hours of service at the base that they were assigned to. Also, personnel who had completed that 100 hours would have also have been given a special additional swearing-in after Coastal Patrol training that subjected the individuals to the Articles of War and falling under the jurisdiction of the military court system, making them all "legal combatants" about the time of completing that first 100 hours of service. It is possible that the reason that she doesn't appear on the list, is that either she didn't complete the Air Forces-required 100 hour service requirement, or else the Air Force had no record of her additional "Coastal Patrol" enlistment, or some combination of the two. Or, she may have done both, and in the hurry to shut down the bases towards the end of the Coastal Patrol mission period, her paperwork may have been lost. By  the regulations of the time, a plotting board operator would most certainly have been a "legal belligerent", as a CAP base with AAF-provided demolition bombs and depth charges, guns, and armed aircraft, with a headquarters with classified communications capable equipment and a board to plot and plan combat sorties in wartime. (Which describes ALL CAP Coastal Patrol Bases). All of this was part of the reasoning behind Congress attempting in both 1945 and 1946 to give CAP personnel Veteran status, and also part of the reasoning behind the Army Judge Advocate Department reclassifying such personnel from "civilian" to "Forces accompanying the Army of the United States in the field". 

In order to try to help you out with your inquiry, I have personally tried to research every historical record that I could for WWII CAP member Blanch Violet Jeffries, and, other than the family information of the type found earlier in the post, I have not managed to find any other roster with the type information being sought. I even tried to pull a few strings with my liaison at the Pentagon, and they couldn't find anything CAP-related of interest further in their files. My contact there was of the opinion that many CAP Coastal Patrol personnel records that were maintained by the War Department after WWII were most likely amongst the many various records destroyed in the 1973 National Personnel Records Center fire.

SD0044

Thanks so much.   ;D

I suppose that one or the other of the situations advised must have occurred.

Dave Jeffries  136365