Hello all,
I separated from the Air Force into the Reserves last year and was able to return to my original CAP squadron after being unable to be an active member for some years. I'm working with the Cadets and a question came up, and the 39-1 has changed since I was last familiar with it so I would like to check with everyone in order to make sure I didn't miss something.
Military Creases-
I noticed some of my cadets had military creases and when I asked they brought up that it was done elsewhere, encampment-wise. Paragraph 4.1.10.2 states, in regards to the female blues shirt, that military crease are forbidden. It also explicitly states this in several other paragraphs such as 4.1.1.4, 4.1.2.4, and various other shirt related paragraphs. However, 4.1.9.2, regarding the males blues shirt, states nothing in this regard. Is there a paragraph I missed or another publication or is this optional for males? Is it something left up to the unit or wing?
Thanks ahead of time!
Quote from: Paul_AK on February 25, 2015, 03:50:46 AM
Hello all,
I separated from the Air Force into the Reserves last year and was able to return to my original CAP squadron after being unable to be an active member for some years. I'm working with the Cadets and a question came up, and the 39-1 has changed since I was last familiar with it so I would like to check with everyone in order to make sure I didn't miss something.
Military Creases-
I noticed some of my cadets had military creases and when I asked they brought up that it was done elsewhere, encampment-wise. Paragraph 4.1.10.2 states, in regards to the female blues shirt, that military crease are forbidden. It also explicitly states this in several other paragraphs such as 4.1.1.4, 4.1.2.4, and various other shirt related paragraphs. However, 4.1.9.2, regarding the males blues shirt, states nothing in this regard. Is there a paragraph I missed or another publication or is this optional for males? Is it something left up to the unit or wing?
Thanks ahead of time!
No, no, and no.
Let's also be clear....when you say military creases....you mean the two crease lines that cut through the shirt over the pockets?
Don't know where your unit is....but it may be fault of your local dry cleaner. I fell for that once way back when...when I took my blues to a non-military dry cleaners at my home town.
They asked "military creases" and I though they meant creased sleeves......so needless to say I had to buy a new blues shirt because I could never get those creases out.
But as Sardragon said....no CAP does not allow military creases.
Yep, just did a quick shirt and everything referring to military creases states they are prohibited.
Paul_AK, does AFI 36-2903 allow military creases in any Air Force uniform?
CAP follows the same rules.
Quote from: PHall on February 25, 2015, 04:44:59 AM
Paul_AK, does AFI 36-2903 allow military creases in any Air Force uniform?
CAP follows the same rules.
That's what I was going by, but since the text was missing in that specific paragraph I figured I'd double check.
The USCG and by extension the Auxiliary does authorize military creases. I find they look odd on the light blue shirts with the pleated pockets. The newer Winter Dress Blue shirt has them permanently pressed in which is kinda neat. They do not look out of place on the Winter Blue however which is a different style than the light blue AF shirts.
Neither CAPM 39-1 nor AFI 36-2903 allow military creases. It's just not something the Air Force and, by extension, CAP do.
Military creases should come out after a couple of runs through the wash on the wash and wear blues shirt. Speaking from experience of WIWAC (NJROTC). For the record I would get military creases in both my khakis and white shirts; even with the two front pockets it looks sharp, albeit our pockets didn't have the pleats, they were just flapped.
Before CAPM 39-1 was changed the instruction specifically prohibiting military creases was present both on the male and female shirts. Again though, it falls on the "not written, can't do it" non-deviation rule given right up front.
Imagine my surprise then when my cleaners, who usually asks me about starch and creases simply put the creases in the shirt without my asking. Saving grace though is that it was the shirt I wore with my dress blue coat so I just kept the coat on.
Folks, I did a search of this a couple days ago and every chapter that references a shirt whether it is the blues, corporate and the working uniforms states that military creases are not authorized, not allowed or prohibited. And that is straight out of CAPM39-1.
Can I ask why CAP (and the USAF) have such an aversion to Military creases?
I've always thought that if ironed in properly, the creases added to the sharpness of any uniform.
Quote from: shuman14 on February 28, 2015, 01:01:40 PM
Can I ask why CAP (and the USAF) have such an aversion to Military creases?
CAP follows the same guidelines as the Air Force when it comes to uniforms, especially with regards to the AF-style uniforms. The Air Force prohibits them, so CAP does as well. Why? This question can be better answered by the CSAF.
Quote from: shuman14 on February 28, 2015, 01:01:40 PM
I've always thought that if ironed in properly, the creases added to the sharpness of any uniform.
That, of course, is a personal opinion. Some uniforms may look good with military creases over the shirt. Navy and Marine Corps shirts use this type of creases, but their material is different from the Air Force shirt. Personally, I don't think it looks right on an Air Force shirt. At a minimum, it looks odd as no one have these in the Air Force.
The Air Force, since its independence in 1947 has always advocated a very simple outlook on uniforms and insignia. They don't want to look bling-happy like the Army, where a patch, emblem, ribbon or seal decorates every part of the uniform. When the light blue shirt was introduced, the military crease was not carried over.
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on February 28, 2015, 03:43:31 PM
The Air Force, since its independence in 1947 has always advocated a very simple outlook on uniforms and insignia. They don't want to look bling-happy like the Army, where a patch, emblem, ribbon or seal decorates every part of the uniform. When the light blue shirt was introduced, the military crease was not carried over.
We weren't wearing military creases on the 1505's either... The Air Force stopped wearing military creases circa 1960 or so.
CAP stopped around 1965 or so. The only CAP uniform with military creases I ever wore was the Shade 1 khaki.
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on February 28, 2015, 03:43:31 PM
The Air Force, since its independence in 1947 has always advocated a very simple outlook on uniforms and insignia. They don't want to look bling-happy like the Army, where a patch, emblem, ribbon or seal decorates every part of the uniform. When the light blue shirt was introduced, the military crease was not carried over.
well except during the BDU era... AF BDU's had patches EVERYWHERE
Quote from: cap235629 on February 28, 2015, 09:29:14 PM
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on February 28, 2015, 03:43:31 PM
The Air Force, since its independence in 1947 has always advocated a very simple outlook on uniforms and insignia. They don't want to look bling-happy like the Army, where a patch, emblem, ribbon or seal decorates every part of the uniform. When the light blue shirt was introduced, the military crease was not carried over.
well except during the BDU era... AF BDU's had patches EVERYWHERE
??
We carried over those patches from the OD greens.
Quote from: cap235629 on February 28, 2015, 09:29:14 PM
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on February 28, 2015, 03:43:31 PM
The Air Force, since its independence in 1947 has always advocated a very simple outlook on uniforms and insignia. They don't want to look bling-happy like the Army, where a patch, emblem, ribbon or seal decorates every part of the uniform. When the light blue shirt was introduced, the military crease was not carried over.
well except during the BDU era... AF BDU's had patches EVERYWHERE
He's talking about the blue service uniform, not BDU's.
Quote from: SarDragon on February 28, 2015, 06:33:53 PM
CAP stopped around 1965 or so. The only CAP uniform with military creases I ever wore was the Shade 1 khaki.
I remember wearing the dark blue long sleeve shirt as a cadet between 1959 and 1963. I even wore it as AP with the white service cover. We had military creases then.
Quote from: Grumpy on March 01, 2015, 06:40:41 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on February 28, 2015, 06:33:53 PM
CAP stopped around 1965 or so. The only CAP uniform with military creases I ever wore was the Shade 1 khaki.
I remember wearing the dark blue long sleeve shirt as a cadet between 1959 and 1963. I even wore it as AP with the white service cover. We had military creases then.
Vague memory swirls are saying that military creases on the long sleeved dark blue shirt were optional. If so, it was the only uniform that had them after the demise of Shade 1 khakis.
(I have no old 39-1 to liok this up, but would appreciate hearing if I am remembering this correctly or not).
Your memory is correct, and mine incomplete. Military creases were optional on the dark blue shirt. I used to wear that one, and thought it was one of the best uniforms we ever had.
That was the Shade 1549 long sleeve blue shirt. Pretty popular in cold climates, not so much in warm areas.
Wore it for a couple of years for CAP when I was at Offutt AFB, NE in the 80's.
The ability to wear thermals under it was a big reason I wore it. [insert frozen smiley here]
Quote from: abdsp51 on February 26, 2015, 10:32:46 PM
Folks, I did a search of this a couple days ago and every chapter that references a shirt whether it is the blues, corporate and the working uniforms states that military creases are not authorized, not allowed or prohibited. And that is straight out of CAPM39-1.
That was where my confusion was. I am well aquainted with the 36-2903 and pretty much every necessary paragraph in CAPM 39-1, save one, had a sentence prohibiting military creases. However, one did not and this is why I thought it prudent to double check so there would be no question as to the answer I forwarded to the cadets.
Quote from: PHall on March 01, 2015, 03:31:05 PM
That was the Shade 1549 long sleeve blue shirt. Pretty popular in cold climates, not so much in warm areas.
Wore it for a couple of years for CAP when I was at Offutt AFB, NE in the 80's.
The ability to wear thermals under it was a big reason I wore it. [insert frozen smiley here]
I think it was the Shade 1549 shirt only at the end of it's life. Before that, wasn't it the Shade 1084 shirt and the Shade 84 shirt before that?
It was a bit pricy compared to the light blue shirt. They seemed to be popular with cadet officers from the Eastern US. They weren't practical as a formation uniform because not everybody had them. But any opportunity to wear them was sought and used.
They were a bit hot for CA. But just the thing for Vandenberg AFB, with the famous "Vandenfog" that rolled in around 1400 every day. They were authorized at encampments as a post-1800 uniform item for years.
I've said it before - I think tears were shed, both USAF tears and CAP tears, when that shirt was phased out.
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on March 06, 2015, 07:55:34 AM
Quote from: PHall on March 01, 2015, 03:31:05 PM
That was the Shade 1549 long sleeve blue shirt. Pretty popular in cold climates, not so much in warm areas.
Wore it for a couple of years for CAP when I was at Offutt AFB, NE in the 80's.
The ability to wear thermals under it was a big reason I wore it. [insert frozen smiley here]
I think it was the Shade 1549 shirt only at the end of it's life. Before that, wasn't it the Shade 1084 shirt and the Shade 84 shirt before that?
It was a bit pricy compared to the light blue shirt. They seemed to be popular with cadet officers from the Eastern US. They weren't practical as a formation uniform because not everybody had them. But any opportunity to wear them was sought and used.
They were a bit hot for CA. But just the thing for Vandenberg AFB, with the famous "Vandenfog" that rolled in around 1400 every day. They were authorized at encampments as a post-1800 uniform item for years.
I've said it before - I think tears were shed, both USAF tears and CAP tears, when that shirt was phased out.
Indeed, that was a truly disappointing day when I had to stop wearing it. It was the same for the USN equivalent.
In case anyone is confused by the USAF uniform numbers:
http://usafeenlistedheritage.org/history/uniforms/ (http://usafeenlistedheritage.org/history/uniforms/)