WING CC COMMENDATION FOR A CADET VS ACHIEVEMENT AWARD

[OH6 PILOT]

I suspect not an unusual situation follows.  I put in our cadet first sgt. for a Wing CC Commendation, my unit cc tells me the group cc thinks it is only Achievement Award material. If the reg is complied with a Review Board has to make that call first. This is the first time I have tried to do this in my time in CAP, which is more than a few days.  So my friends, any of you out there that can perhaps get some successful samples of a Wing Commendation for a cadet to me if I give you my email address I would be most grateful.  Names deleted of course.  Armed with samples perhaps I could at least get my own cc to fight for it and perhaps influence his boss.  Sorry but I am not disclosing my unit or where I am. Many thanks.

[arajca]

Anonymity is fine, but is the objection due the awardee being a cadet or is the citation not sufficient, in the mind of the gp/cc, for a Commander's Commendation?

[PHall]

First question to answer. Why does your Group Commander only think it's worth only an Achievement Medal?
Maybe you need to work on your documentation.

[baronet68]

I have seen cadets receive every decoration from the CAP Achievement Award up to the Silver Medal of Valor.  It's a matter of the accomplishments of the cadet meeting the award's criteria.

As others have mentioned, it would be good to understand if the group commander believes that the cadet's accomplishments do not meet the Commander's Commendation award criteria or is it that the commander believes that cadets simply do not earn anything higher than an Achievement Award?

Commander's Commendation Award.  Outstanding duty performance where achievements and services are clearly and unmistakably exceptional when compared to similar achievements and service of members of like rank and responsibility.  In instances where several members are affiliated with an exceptionally successful program, project or mission, the Commander's Commendation Award will be awarded only to those who clearly stand out from the others and who contributed most to the success of the program.  The Exceptional Service Award and the Meritorious Service Award differ from the Commanders' Commendation Award in that they recognize achievements and services significantly above and beyond normal duty performance.  This award may be presented by a wing, region or National Commander.

I bold/italicized two parts above. 

The first part indicates that the performance of your Cadet First Sergeant should be compared to that of other Cadet First Sergeants (ideally of similarly sized squadrons) to see if your cadet's achievement and service is exceptional when compared to their peers.  In other words, comparing apples to apples.

The second part indicates that the Cadet First Sergeant's achievements and service DO NOT need to rise to the level of "above and beyond" normal duty performance.

Just to demonstrate that it is not at all unheard of for cadets to receive decorations in CAP, I've pulled the following from eServices:

Award	Cadets with Award	Cadets C/CMSgt and Below
Silver Medal of Valor	0	0
Bronze Medal of Valor	1	0
Distinguished Service Award	0	0
Exceptional Service Award	2	0
Meritorious Service Award	33	1
Commander's Commendation Award (National)	2	0
Commander's Commendation Award (Region)	94	15
Commander's Commendation Award (Wing)	965	152
Achievement Award	3767	1431
Certificate of Recognition for Lifesaving	47	19

Note, the above grades are as of today and does not indicate the cadet's grade at the time the award was earned.
(6 Oct 23, 28,100 total cadets)

[SARDOC]

This is one of my pet peeves with the CAP awards system.  Every award has an approval authority designated by regulation.  Anywhere in the chain prior to arrival at the designated approval authority, anybody can interfere for whatever reason and the approving authority never gets to make the decision if that award was appropriate or not...keeping it fair and consistent.

If the Wing Commander is the approving authority for the award, the Wing Commander or designee should always review the award.  Yes, it goes through the hands of SQ/CC or GP/CC but they should forward either it recommending approval or disapproval and why. 

[NIN]

I can see it from both sides of the coin.

Awards are a commander's program. Therefore the commander has his or her say over it.

If a unit commander doesn't think its worthy of a specific level, thats their call regardless of what the awards committee says.

Same goes for the group CC.

I'd rather a group or sq CC have the fortitude to say "This isn't an XYZ award, really" than they kick it up to the next echelon and say "Let them be the bad guy."

On the other side of this coin, I've seen a member put in for a wing-level award for a wing-level program (should have been entered at wing), but because the person making the nomination, from that wing-level program, was at another squadron the award went to the unit for approval. Then the unit said "ooh, we think this person's work was so awesome that we're going to recommend upgrading this award TWO LEVELS!" And the unit commander approved it. 

Uhhh, hold your horses, guys. This write up and the member's contribution, level of effort and scope of impact wasn't THAT good.

As Maj Moore pointed out, Commander's Commendations compare the member's contributions to others of like rank and responsibility. If this cadet was the most outstanding cadet first sergeant in the wing, participated in every unit activity, was active on CAC, walked little old ladies across the road, that would be one thing.

Broadly speaking:
Unit-level impact is generally recognized with an AA.
Higher level unit/group-impact or Wing-level impact is generally recognized with a Comm Comm.
Superior Wing-level impact, or region-level impact can be a MSA or an ESA, or in some limited cases a DSA.
Serious Region-level and National-level impact can be an ESA or a DSA, depending on how impactful.

[Eclipse]

^ Agree for the most part with Col "Nothing To Do".

Award recommendations should be sent to the echelon that has the approval authority.

ACH's go to a Group CC, Comm Comms go to the Wing CC, directly, etc.
Certainly the dec committee should consider them at the echelon, but that's their prerogative and no one else's.

A Unit CC, for example, should have no no say as to whether an encampment CC wants to
award a member of the activity staff with a Comm Comm or higher.

[MSG Mac]

Bottom Line:

Determine what effect the individual's efforts had on the Squadron, Group, or Wing.

Local (Squadron) Achievement Award

Wide Scale (Group or Wing) Commendation or Achievement

[Eclipse]

Determine what effect the individual's efforts had on the Squadron, Group, or Wing.

And for goodness sake, if the thing is bounced down a level RE-WRITE THE 2A.

Nothing incentivizes a member like getting a 2A with "Comm Comm" scratched out
and "other" penciled in.

[baronet68]

And for goodness sake, if the thing is bounced down a level RE-WRITE THE 2A 120.

Nothing incentivizes a member like getting a 2A 120 with "Comm Comm" scratched out
and "other" penciled in.

FTFY

[MSG Mac]

And for goodness sake, if the thing is bounced down a level RE-WRITE THE 2A 120.

Nothing incentivizes a member like getting a 2A 120 with "Comm Comm" scratched out
and "other" penciled in.

FTFY

Or seeing in E-Services that an award has been approved and sitting at Wing HQ for 6 months to a year.

[Eclipse]

Or seeing in E-Services that an award has been approved and sitting at Wing HQ for 6 months to a year.

Seriously...

"Lt Kernal Johnson noticed the other day that you submitted a decoration through the
120 system."

"That was months ago."

"We never received the hardcopy."

"Everything you need is in the submission."

"Wing policy is..."

AGGGGHHHHHH!

[SierraOneThree]

I VERY much want to hear the story of the pre-Mitchell cadet who got an ESA.

[OH6 PILOT]

To all of you above,

Many thanks for your informative responses.

This award has now been "pending" for over 4 months at Group.  I concur with the comment above if Wing is the approving authority, let them make a decision on it. The cadet involved is far and away the best I have seen in my 5ish years with CAP, and puts most of the prior cadet ccs and 1/Sgts to shame. 

If anything ever comes of the submission other than sitting there, I will update this topic.

Thanks to all of you for caring.   

[Stonewall]

I concur with the comment above if Wing is the approving authority, let them make a decision on it.

If there is a lower echelon leader, such as a group commander, they should have an awards and decorations committee.

As a sitting wing commander, we  get nominations for awards that  shouldn't have passed the group level on a regular basis. Part of the purpose of the group is to act as a conduit between the squadrons and wing, and it works both ways.

Last year we got a recommendation for a commanders commendation award (CCA) for someone who planned a squadron awards banquet. We've also gotten a recommendation for a certificate of recognition for lifesaving (CRL) for someone who directed traffic during a car accident. Neither of those should have passed muster at the group level.

If you nominated a cadet for a CCA and it has been four months, that's 3 1/2 months too long and you should reach out to the group commander and if that doesn't work, the wing director of personnel. If that doesn't work, continue your way up.

[Paul Creed III]

I concur with the comment above if Wing is the approving authority, let them make a decision on it.

If there is a lower echelon leader, such as a group commander, they should have an awards and decorations committee.

As a sitting wing commander, we  get nominations for awards that  shouldn't have passed the group level on a regular basis. Part of the purpose of the group is to act as a conduit between the squadrons and wing, and it works both ways.

Last year we got a recommendation for a commanders commendation award (CCA) for someone who planned a squadron awards banquet. We've also gotten a recommendation for a certificate of recognition for lifesaving (CRL) for someone who directed traffic during a car accident. Neither of those should have passed muster at the group level.

If you nominated a cadet for a CCA and it has been four months, that's 3 1/2 months too long and you should reach out to the group commander and if that doesn't work, the wing director of personnel. If that doesn't work, continue your way up.

And to build upon this, as soon as an award receives final approval, the commander of the member should be alerted that one of their people earned something so that plans for presentation as soon as feasible can be made. It's the member's award and they should get to decide how they would like to receive it.

[Stonewall]

I concur with the comment above if Wing is the approving authority, let them make a decision on it.

If there is a lower echelon leader, such as a group commander, they should have an awards and decorations committee.

As a sitting wing commander, we  get nominations for awards that  shouldn't have passed the group level on a regular basis. Part of the purpose of the group is to act as a conduit between the squadrons and wing, and it works both ways.

Last year we got a recommendation for a commanders commendation award (CCA) for someone who planned a squadron awards banquet. We've also gotten a recommendation for a certificate of recognition for lifesaving (CRL) for someone who directed traffic during a car accident. Neither of those should have passed muster at the group level.

If you nominated a cadet for a CCA and it has been four months, that's 3 1/2 months too long and you should reach out to the group commander and if that doesn't work, the wing director of personnel. If that doesn't work, continue your way up.

And to build upon this, as soon as an award receives final approval, the commander of the member should be alerted that one of their people earned something so that plans for presentation as soon as feasible can be made. It's the member's award and they should get to decide how they would like to receive it.

I have struggled with this from higher headquarters. If I approve an MSA, if/when it gets approved, there is no mechanism for notification. I will often get an email with a copy of the certificate to print and present.

Being a wing commander, at least for my wing (1,150 members) the information flow is constant and unforgiving. If I approve an award submitted from a lower level, that I didn't initiate, then unless someone asks for an update, it literally could be forgotten.

It shouldn't be that way, but unfortunately, it is.

In the Air Force, I get an automated notification when and award has been finalized and it's time to print and present.

[SierraOneThree]

I have struggled with this from higher headquarters. If I approve an MSA, if/when it gets approved, there is no mechanism for notification. I will often get an email with a copy of the certificate to print and present.

Being a wing commander, at least for my wing (1,150 members) the information flow is constant and unforgiving. If I approve an award submitted from a lower level, that I didn't initiate, then unless someone asks for an update, it literally could be forgotten.

It shouldn't be that way, but unfortunately, it is.

In the Air Force, I get an automated notification when and award has been finalized and it's time to print and present.

I participated in a Level V capstone series of presentations within the past year where one of the groups advocated for a better, more user-friendly eServices module for vehicle management that would better allow members to track, request, and maintain COVs and provide greater information flow and notification for all relevant/involved parties. The highest member of the group they got in to listen to our course immediately asked why this was necessary as we already had the tools in place to do exactly that - rather, THAT INDIVIDUAL had the ability to access all that information when in their highest command echelon.

I bring it up because there seems to be a severe lack of foresight or willingness to improve quality of life for senior staff members or improve information flow in general. Managing the IT resources was merely an afterthought in the feedback this person gave that group, their immediate response was "we don't need that, I already have it." It was honestly a fairly simple thing to do, according to the multiple IT professionals at that course, but the person who would have to send it up for review simply refused to do it seemingly on principle.

Yes, I am being intentionally vague.

[TheSkyHornet]

I don't agree that stuff like this merely requires an IT solution, although I acknowledge that it wasn't necessarily promoted that way.

What I think we have an issue with is a pure lack of attention to defined process:  the award nomination goes up the chain and requires approvals along the way. The people who oversee the nomination process at each echelon often don't pay attention to it; and their bosses (i.e., commanders) may not really be aware that there's something in the queue. As it continues further up the chain, nobody is going back down to say "Hey, just letting you know that I approved this, and (either) it's onto the next level (or) go ahead and schedule a presentation."

This isn't just an awards issue. This goes to promotions, specialty tracks, levels, etc. I can't even count the number of times that I'm saying to a commander, "So-and-so is good to be signed off," and I never hear back. But they put them into the system some month later. The only person who knows is the Approver and the person being approved (and somethings even that person doesn't know).

The click-the-button logic is what needs fixed. It's a lack of communication and awareness.

[OH6 PILOT]

I communicated with a high level member of the Group staff and the Wing Personnel officer. The responses from both were lame.I neglected to mention above that a prior award sat at Wing for close to a year with no action taken on it. Finally it was approved. That cc has fortunately been replaced some time in the last year.  The Group cc goes off to other functions sometime in the not too distant future, at which time I will re submit it. If rumor control proves correct, the new one will have this up to Wing in under 2 weeks. They have already seen it and confirm it should go to Wing. If that person does not get it, hard to predict the ultimate result.  Meanwhile, there should be some type of alarm system when something sits at a HQ with no action for x amount of time. Overall a disgusting and frustrating fiasco that ignores the reg implication that these items should be handled with a sense of urgency.