Web-based CAP Applications?

[tsvaughan355195]

As a newer member of our squadron, and a 30-year computer geek, I'm scratching my head. 

Has anyone suggested that the various software applications, like WMU, IMU, SIMS, etc., would be better utilized as web-based applications?  So, that a user would only need a browser, user id and password to utilize them? 

All of the databases and utilities would live on NHQ servers and we'd just access them like we do GMail, Facebook, online shopping and, well, CAP Talk. 

Before anyone gigs me, I know the WMU seems to operate this way already.  But, the IMU and SIMS do not.

Just asking. 

[jimmydeanno]

The functionality of SIMS is slowly being replaced by the Cadet Promotions Utility. 

[Eclipse]

There is only one nationally recognized database - eServices, which includes WMIRS.

WMU, SIMS, IMU, are all home-grown apps which are used as clients of the authoritative database, not official NHQ solutions.

Wings were supposed to be off the WMU 6+ years ago.  SIMS is a great app, but is just a client.  IMU is an attempt at distributed mission management
and requires fairly advanced technical support to make work, assuming you can.

[JeffDG]

IMU is an attempt at distributed mission management
and requires fairly advanced technical support to make work, assuming you can.

Assuming that NHQ doesn't figure out how it works and block that method of access to WMIRS.

[Robborsari]

Most things would work just fine as a web application.  IMU has added certain web functionallity.  Comm folks at remote locations can make comm log entries through a web interface without having to have IMU installed.  You can also see the status board from the web server.

One of the goals of IMU is to be able to function in a location with no internet.  That would be very difficult to do if it were web based.  By using a windows application we can have several operating modes depending on the situation with no internet access.

All modes can interact with WMIRS and eservices if a network is available.

1) Local  - No network needed, One system with a local database. 
2) Network Client / Host - Local network with multiple machines.  One acts as a host and the rest are clients.  Every copy of IMU installs with all the parts needed to become a host. 
3) Internet server client - The most commonly used mode with a wing IMU server.
4) WMU archive - Connects to the archive database to review uploaded completed missions.

Install and network requirements have been greatly simplified.  No more windows shares required.  All interaction with the servers are by http so no special firewall ports are needed any more.  Every time the program starts it checks the update server for a new version.  If there is one it downloads it to your desktop, launches it and restarts the new version. Updates are just a couple of clicks now.  The built in FTP client lets you get a database installed from the server with a button.  Much simpler than the old process. 

We are constantly working to make it simpler.  It still needs work but it is getting better.  Try it out for yourself.  Its at http://wmu.nat.cap.gov/  Let me know if you have any questions.

[nesagsar]

I find myself wondering why we dont use WebEOC.

[Robborsari]

I find myself wondering why we dont use WebEOC.

One reason is:

Web Server
•Processors: Two - Quad Core Intel Xeon 2.6GHz, 2x6MB Cache, 1333MHz Front Side Bus
•Memory: 4 GB
•Hard Drive: Two - 146GB, SAS, 15K
•Hard Drive Configuration: RAID1
•NIC: GB NIC
•CD-ROM: DVD ROM
•Power Supply: Redundant Power Supply
•Operating System Software:
Windows Server 2003 or 2008 (32 bit, 64 bit), Standard Edition
Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 SP1
Microsoft IIS 6.0 or higher
•Note: IA64 is not supported

Database Server
•Processors: Two - Quad Core Intel Xeon 3.33GHz, 2x6MB Cache, 1333MHz Front Side Bus
•Memory: 4 GB
•Hard Drive: Six - 146GB, SAS, 15K
•Hard Drive Configuration: RAID1 / RAID5
•NIC: GB NIC
•CD-ROM: DVD ROM
•Power Supply: Redundant Power Supply
•Operating System:
Windows Server 2003 or 2008 (32 bit, 64 bit), Standard Edition
Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 SP1
Note: IA64 is not supported
•Database Software: Microsoft SQL Server 2005 or 2008 (CPU or CAL)

Thats a lot of hardware.

From the web page for town square which is the lite version:

Priced at $19,999, Town Square enables emergency
management agencies that do not need the full power or
flexibility of WebEOC Professional to move from manual or
home grown incident management systems to a commercial off-the-shelf product.

WebEOC Town Square Software $19,999.00
WebEOC Town Square Software with combined server $29,999.00
WebEOC Town Square with separate web/database server $36,999.00

Thats a bit above my budget of $0000.00

If NHQ bought it I would use it.  Until then I will keep working on making IMU more usable.

[Larry Mangum]

So have you taken over IMU development from Pete Anderson?

[Robborsari]

So have you taken over IMU development from Pete Anderson?

No.  Pete is the primary force behind the IMU.  There are a few of us who help out. 

[JeffDG]

WebEOC Town Square Software $19,999.00
WebEOC Town Square Software with combined server $29,999.00
WebEOC Town Square with separate web/database server $36,999.00

That combined server seems light to me...SQL Server alone goes for ~$4k per CPU (not core, it's priced per socket), and I wouldn't even want to think of managing a distributed web application like that on a server+CAL model in SQL server.  So, there you're at $28k for WebEOC + SQL Server...just software, no hardware, no Windows Server OS.  Most of the time when I spec our SQL Servers, I get in the $7k-$10k pretty quick on hardware.

If you need another zero in your budget, I'll toss one in. 

[tsvaughan355195]

Thanks to all who replied.  Great information.  I will march forward.

[LTC Don]

WebEOC Town Square Software $19,999.00
WebEOC Town Square Software with combined server $29,999.00
WebEOC Town Square with separate web/database server $36,999.00

That combined server seems light to me...SQL Server alone goes for ~$4k per CPU (not core, it's priced per socket), and I wouldn't even want to think of managing a distributed web application like that on a server+CAL model in SQL server.  So, there you're at $28k for WebEOC + SQL Server...just software, no hardware, no Windows Server OS.  Most of the time when I spec our SQL Servers, I get in the $7k-$10k pretty quick on hardware.

If you need another zero in your budget, I'll toss one in. 

Wait.  Whut?  $4,000......to a commercial entity  maybe.

Before quoting full retail prices for software; FIRST, check techsoup and see what nonprofits are getting the same product for since, you know, CAP is also a nonprofit.

I'm glad to see that some units are taking advantage of the great deals at Techsoup, but I'm mystified why National Headquarters hasn't after all these years not tried to leverage what Techsoup can offer.

Microsoft Sql Server through Techsoup (Prepare to become lightheaded and possibly faint at the price difference.): http://home.techsoup.org/Stock/Pages/Category.aspx?category=MSSQLServer  :clap:



Cheers,

[JeffDG]

WebEOC Town Square Software $19,999.00
WebEOC Town Square Software with combined server $29,999.00
WebEOC Town Square with separate web/database server $36,999.00

That combined server seems light to me...SQL Server alone goes for ~$4k per CPU (not core, it's priced per socket), and I wouldn't even want to think of managing a distributed web application like that on a server+CAL model in SQL server.  So, there you're at $28k for WebEOC + SQL Server...just software, no hardware, no Windows Server OS.  Most of the time when I spec our SQL Servers, I get in the $7k-$10k pretty quick on hardware.

If you need another zero in your budget, I'll toss one in. 

Wait.  Whut?  $4,000......to a commercial entity  maybe.

Before quoting full retail prices for software; FIRST, check techsoup and see what nonprofits are getting the same product for since, you know, CAP is also a nonprofit.

I'm glad to see that some units are taking advantage of the great deals at Techsoup, but I'm mystified why National Headquarters hasn't after all these years not tried to leverage what Techsoup can offer.

Microsoft Sql Server through Techsoup (Prepare to become lightheaded and possibly faint at the price difference.): http://home.techsoup.org/Stock/Pages/Category.aspx?category=MSSQLServer  :clap:



Cheers,

Those are server+cal products, not processor licenses.  That means that every user who could ever access the application needs a CAL in addition to the server itself, and intermediating though some kind of front-end doesn't change the CAL requirements.

And $4k per CPU is nowhere near retail...that's what we pay as a MS customer with significant volume...can't recall what our pricing level is, that's for procurement to negotiate.

[EmergencyManager6]

Dont think WebEOC will be any help for CAP.... not designed for what we do.

Its actually based on Sharepoint services.