Amber Emergency Lights

[IceNine]

Doesn't matter what state you are in.  The statement I made is always true, try something new and read what I said.

I specifically said if not using them according to the laws, codes, etc of your locality it is a ticketable offence.  If Arkansas or wherever says Everyone can use them, you are using them according to your law.

Ok let Google be your guide, not a 12 year veteran Arkansas Police Officer. The reality is I said "treated".

everyone from storm chasers to mailmen run amber lights in Arkansas.

I am so glad I am not in Eclipse land, because he knows EVERYTHING! There would be nothing left for anyone else!

Interesting that the details are killer until you get caught in the.  And for the record he doesn't have to know it, google does.

Just because you and your buddies turn your head doesn't make it more or less legal.

[cap235629]

Gentlemen,

Use your google-fu to produce 1 citation in case law where such an offense has ever been enforced in Arkansas.  Then and only then will I back off my position.

Also I am specifically referring to amber lights, not blue, red, white or green.

[Eclipse]

Do you speak for every jurisdiction in Arkansas?

I am also referring to amber lights, which the law prohibits, specifically.  I only raised the blue as an example
of an area where Arkansas is actually more strict that many states.

[IceNine]

Not the way this works, sir.

We discredited your statement, now it's time to discredit ours or make a new one. 

Debate 101 for reference

[JoeTomasone]

To address the OPs question, I use a dual-rotator mag-mount lightbar that cost me about $200.00.   It's bright, gives 360 degree visibility, and is removable in 3 minutes should the need arise.   Check Northern Tool for some decent models at decent prices.

To add to the debate:

Florida Law does not permit amber rotating lights on POVs.   However, after nearly being hit during blackout conditions after a hurricane, and having almost been clipped during a UDF mission while out of the vehicle, I have taken the position that a ticket is far less of a concern to me than potentially being injured.   Therefore, I use it when outside of the vehicle (taking bearings, etc), on an airfield (as directed by competent airport authority), and in any other case in which I determine that it adds safety to a given situation.

If that makes me a bad person, so be it.

[cap235629]

To address the OPs question, I use a dual-rotator mag-mount lightbar that cost me about $200.00.   It's bright, gives 360 degree visibility, and is removable in 3 minutes should the need arise.   Check Northern Tool for some decent models at decent prices.

To add to the debate:

Florida Law does not permit amber rotating lights on POVs.   However, after nearly being hit during blackout conditions after a hurricane, and having almost been clipped during a UDF mission while out of the vehicle, I have taken the position that a ticket is far less of a concern to me than potentially being injured.   Therefore, I use it when outside of the vehicle (taking bearings, etc), on an airfield (as directed by competent airport authority), and in any other case in which I determine that it adds safety to a given situation.

If that makes me a bad person, so be it.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Eclipse]

Bill,

Applaud all you want - you contended a number of times that Arkansas was somehow "different" than other states.
It was shown they are no different than anyone else, and are probably more strict than other states.

So then you respond that it is irrelevant because no one in your state enforces that law.

I asked if you spoke for all jurisdictions in the state and you ignore the question.

[IceNine]

To address the OPs question, I use a dual-rotator mag-mount lightbar that cost me about $200.00.   It's bright, gives 360 degree visibility, and is removable in 3 minutes should the need arise.   Check Northern Tool for some decent models at decent prices.

To add to the debate:

Florida Law does not permit amber rotating lights on POVs.   However, after nearly being hit during blackout conditions after a hurricane, and having almost been clipped during a UDF mission while out of the vehicle, I have taken the position that a ticket is far less of a concern to me than potentially being injured.   Therefore, I use it when outside of the vehicle (taking bearings, etc), on an airfield (as directed by competent airport authority), and in any other case in which I determine that it adds safety to a given situation.

If that makes me a bad person, so be it.

That is a liability that you have been fully informed of and chosen to undertake. 

At the very least you should open any discussions with "its not allowed".  A member taking a risk with no beliefs that what they are do acceptable is leaps and bounds different than members accepting unknown risk.

[JoeTomasone]

That is a liability that you have been fully informed of and chosen to undertake. 

Yep.   And I should add that it has been both seen by and used in the presence of LEOs from various departments, none of which appeared to show the slightest interest.    My supposition is that we're "all on the same team", so to speak, doing "good things", and thus are viewed differently somehow.

[IceNine]

I don't disagree...

You know as well as I do though that a clean setup that looks like it is supposed to be there, run by people that are acting professional won't raise any eyebrow (Most of the time).  Adding any "cool factor" and pretending that you're entitled to lights is a trap.

I am not telling anyone not to put lights on their car, I'm saying EVERYONE should calculate the risk to gain ratio of adding lights to their cars.

If you can get approval legally, please do so.  But a cadet being handed a $75 ticket or more can't say "Capt Tomasone said I was alright".  And telling anyone in the organization that you can have lights in Florida is incorrect.  Telling them the risk, and letting them make a decision without saying "they probably won't say anything" is ok.

[SarDragon]

OK, help me out here. Where did we establish that the OP is a cadet? I searched the thread, and the word cadet isn't in any of his posts. Do any of you know him personally?

[cap235629]

I asked if you spoke for all jurisdictions in the state and you ignore the question.

Of course I can't speak for all jurisdictions. I applauded because, wait for it, it made sense. I know that your world is all about black and white. Your rigidness and inability to use common sense makes me glad that you never served a day in your life in the military or have ever served as a law enforcement officer. An outlook such as yours gets people killed.

My point is simple. Using an amber light in Arkansas will not, in my experience which is much more than yours, be looked at any differently than using your flashers.  I have seen them on everything from a farmers tractor to a golf cart.  I would be hard pressed to find a judge you would NOT tick off for wasting his/her time by writing such a citation.  Just because you have the authority does not mean you have to use it. Common sense is still the rule in a free state like Arkansas.  This is precisely why I moved here rather than to states like Illinois or California.  I had enough of the authoritarian mindset when I lived in Massachusetts.

Quote all the laws you can but in the real world, it just doesn't matter.

[a2capt]

OK, help me out here. Where did we establish that the OP is a cadet?

Participation in the "You know you're a CAP cadet if... " thread.
Plus: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=11349.msg216892#msg216892 and other posts where it's been claimed/admitted as well as the general direction of topic participation direction.

[SarDragon]

I sit chastised, humbled, and corrected.

Now back to our regularly scheduled UC.

[IceNine]

I asked if you spoke for all jurisdictions in the state and you ignore the question.

Of course I can't speak for all jurisdictions. I applauded because, wait for it, it made sense. I know that your world is all about black and white. Your rigidness and inability to use common sense makes me glad that you never served a day in your life in the military or have ever served as a law enforcement officer. An outlook such as yours gets people killed.

My point is simple. Using an amber light in Arkansas will not, in my experience which is much more than yours, be looked at any differently than using your flashers.  I have seen them on everything from a farmers tractor to a golf cart.  I would be hard pressed to find a judge you would NOT tick off for wasting his/her time by writing such a citation.  Just because you have the authority does not mean you have to use it. Common sense is still the rule in a free state like Arkansas.  This is precisely why I moved here rather than to states like Illinois or California.  I had enough of the authoritarian mindset when I lived in Massachusetts.

Quote all the laws you can but in the real world, it just doesn't matter.

Precisely the problem.  You are arguing that you can have them because you like them or simply don't like rules.  Not something you should be passing along as a rule.  Ignoring that rules exist get's people killed, just as much as those that adhere to them so strictly you can't see past them.

Common sense here say's you don't tell a cadet he can have illegal lights on his car.  It says you offer the facts and let him decide.  Actively promoting the use, doesn't make you proactive, it just means you can ignore things when you don't agree with them.

[cap235629]

I asked if you spoke for all jurisdictions in the state and you ignore the question.

Of course I can't speak for all jurisdictions. I applauded because, wait for it, it made sense. I know that your world is all about black and white. Your rigidness and inability to use common sense makes me glad that you never served a day in your life in the military or have ever served as a law enforcement officer. An outlook such as yours gets people killed.

My point is simple. Using an amber light in Arkansas will not, in my experience which is much more than yours, be looked at any differently than using your flashers.  I have seen them on everything from a farmers tractor to a golf cart.  I would be hard pressed to find a judge you would NOT tick off for wasting his/her time by writing such a citation.  Just because you have the authority does not mean you have to use it. Common sense is still the rule in a free state like Arkansas.  This is precisely why I moved here rather than to states like Illinois or California.  I had enough of the authoritarian mindset when I lived in Massachusetts.

Quote all the laws you can but in the real world, it just doesn't matter.

Precisely the problem.  You are arguing that you can have them because you like them or simply don't like rules.  Not something you should be passing along as a rule.  Ignoring that rules exist get's people killed, just as much as those that adhere to them so strictly you can't see past them.

Common sense here say's you don't tell a cadet he can have illegal lights on his car.  It says you offer the facts and let him decide.  Actively promoting the use, doesn't make you proactive, it just means you can ignore things when you don't agree with them.

Show me where I told anyone to use anything, cadet or senior.  I was pointing out that once again the omnipotent Eclipse was making blanket statements that may or may not be true everywhere.

I never promoted the use nor advised against it.

[Eclipse]

Quote all the laws you can but in the real world, it just doesn't matter.

Clearly.

[Eclipse]

Show me where I told anyone to use anything, cadet or senior.  I was pointing out that once again the omnipotent Eclipse was making blanket statements that may or may not be true everywhere.

Actually, my "blanket statement" turned out to be 100% true in Arkansas where you apparently simply ignore laws you are supposed to enforce.

We are also not talking about "tractors" or "golf carts", neither of which is likely to spend a lot of time on major highways, or be rolling
up to "assist someone in distress.

Change you argument all you want, try to make it a personal attack, or spin it ad infinitum. It doesn't change the facts or the law.

[cap235629]

We are also not talking about "tractors" or "golf carts", neither of which is likely to spend a lot of time on major highways, or be rolling
up to "assist someone in distress.

Once again showing your ignorance of anywhere outside of your little world.  Fact is in Arkansas, tractors routinely travel on highways and in fact have the right of way.  They also tow just as many "vehicles in distress" as wreckers do.

[Eclipse]

We are also not talking about "tractors" or "golf carts", neither of which is likely to spend a lot of time on major highways, or be rolling
up to "assist someone in distress.

Once again showing your ignorance of anywhere outside of your little world.  Fact is in Arkansas, tractors routinely travel on highways and in fact have the right of way.  They also tow just as many "vehicles in distress" as wreckers do.

Give me a break "my little world"?

You're seriously going to try and spin this to mean that the fact that a tractor having a blinky light is the same as a POV?  Wait, I know, outside my "little world" everyone drives tractors as their POV.  How far are you going to stretch to try and prove you were
right despite the facts?

How big is your jurisdiction?  A county, a township, city?