Prohibition Against First-Aid/CPR Training?

[baronet68]

I know there's a prohibition against CAP members providing marksmanship training but is there a similar prohibition regarding First-Aid/CPR training?  I've heard of someone who is both a Red Cross instructor and CAP member and they are being told that they cannot teach First-Aid/CPR classes "as a CAP member".

Anyone have insight into this policy?  I'm not aware of a regulation prohibiting such instruction... Obviously CAP isn't the certifying agency, it would be the Red Cross, American Heart Association, or whatever organization that trained the trainer.  Right?

[Eclipse]

The prohibition is correct and longstanding.

The member must teach the class wearing his ARC golf shirt, not as a CAP member, per se,
including, at a minimum, charging for the materials and completion cards (if he doesn't want to
charge for his time), and making it clear that the training is nor provided by CAP.

FWIW, his instructor agreement does not allow him to provide classes without ARC sanction, either,
and he would be unwise to play games with that, because he is now 100% on his own if something goes wrong
(plus he can't sign the cards).

The theory here is that CAP as an organization, is not providing the training, therefore it can not be
held accountable if a member does something improperly and hurts someone or worse.

CAPR 60-3(I), Page 18:
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/R060_003_075A4369FBA8E.pdf

"f. First Aid and Emergency Medical Care. CAP is not an emergency medical care or
paramedic organization and should not advertise itself as such. CAP will not be the primary
provider of medical support on missions or training events though qualified personnel can be
used to support such activities. The only type of medical aid that should be administered by
CAP personnel or by any other person at CAP's request is reasonable treatment deemed
necessary to save a life or prevent human suffering. This treatment must be executed by a person
qualified to attempt such medical care within their skill level. When first aid or higher medical
training is required for qualification in a particular specialty, the expectation is that the
qualification course includes both knowledge and practical skills training; first aid courses taken
on-line only are not acceptable; though members are not considered employees when supporting
operations, courses are expected to meet the National Guidelines for First Aid in Occupational
Settings available at http://ntl.bts.gov/lib/24000/24700/24757/ngfatos.pdf or ASTM F 2171-
02(2009), Standard Guide for Defining the Performance of First Aid Providers in Occupational
Settings. CAP medical personnel are not provided supplemental malpractice insurance coverage,
and any care provided is at the members own risk. Though medical supplies and equipment are
not normally provided to responders, any reasonable supplies used on training or actual missions
may be submitted for reimbursement as long as sufficient justification is provided."

And more to the point:
Page 23:

"Note: Certain tasks and the associated training are expected to be provided by external agencies.
For example NIMS and First Aid training will normally be provided by another agency. "

[Larry Mangum]

I think you are misquoting the regulation, nowhere in the paragraph you quoted or on page 23 does it prohibit a CAP member from teaching an approved course that they are certified to teach. Page 23, does not prohibit it, it says normally be provided by another agency. Nowhere in the language does it use "will not" or "shall not", expected is not the same as must be.

[wacapgh]

This would be a good question to ask at the conference next month.

[etodd]

Any of your squadron members interested in learning CPR? Simply point them to the nearest Red Cross, or other similar, and do it apart from CAP. Yes ... there are things people can do and learn ... outside of CAP.

[Eclipse]

I think you are misquoting the regulation, nowhere in the paragraph you quoted or on page 23 does it prohibit a CAP member from teaching an approved course that they are certified to teach. Page 23, does not prohibit it, it says normally be provided by another agency. Nowhere in the language does it use "will not" or "shall not", expected is not the same as must be.

It's been the same response for decades.

Anyone can teach anyone anything in CAP.  Teach, not certify. Thus the SET system.

CAP has no doctrine, auditing staff or procedures in regards to medical response and training.

It relies on outside agencies to do that, along with the requisite disavowing of liability.

The ARC (along with every other training agency I've seen) copyrights and controls their materials.
They do not allow instructors to provide pro bono training, nor certify it. At a minimum the instructor
has to purchase the materials and card.

There is no way within the regulations and parameters of instructor certification for a CAP member, per se,
to provide training with the requisite certification.

"Mom's a nurse".  Nope.

"I have friends at the Fire Department." Nope

Rinse, Repeat.

[TheSkyHornet]

I think it's exceedingly common that we actually have individuals who claim to be qualified and find out later than they aren't current or never were qualified to begin with.

"I teach CPR at work."
No, you don't. You provide a review and bring in a contracted certifier. You're not even an instructor.

"I am a qualified healthcare professional."
No, you're not. You took a semester of nursing-related coursework at community college.

We usually discover it when it comes time to turn in the paperwork for their HSO role; thus, don't qualify. And boy do they ever get mad!

[SARDOC]

The prohibition is correct and longstanding.

The member must teach the class wearing his ARC golf shirt, not as a CAP member, per se,
including, at a minimum, charging for the materials and completion cards (if he doesn't want to
charge for his time), and making it clear that the training is nor provided by CAP.

FWIW, his instructor agreement does not allow him to provide classes without ARC sanction, either,
and he would be unwise to play games with that, because he is now 100% on his own if something goes wrong
(plus he can't sign the cards).

The theory here is that CAP as an organization, is not providing the training, therefore it can not be
held accountable if a member does something improperly and hurts someone or worse.

CAPR 60-3(I), Page 18:
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/R060_003_075A4369FBA8E.pdf

"f. First Aid and Emergency Medical Care. CAP is not an emergency medical care or
paramedic organization and should not advertise itself as such. CAP will not be the primary
provider of medical support on missions or training events though qualified personnel can be
used to support such activities. The only type of medical aid that should be administered by
CAP personnel or by any other person at CAP's request is reasonable treatment deemed
necessary to save a life or prevent human suffering. This treatment must be executed by a person
qualified to attempt such medical care within their skill level. When first aid or higher medical
training is required for qualification in a particular specialty, the expectation is that the
qualification course includes both knowledge and practical skills training; first aid courses taken
on-line only are not acceptable; though members are not considered employees when supporting
operations, courses are expected to meet the National Guidelines for First Aid in Occupational
Settings available at http://ntl.bts.gov/lib/24000/24700/24757/ngfatos.pdf or ASTM F 2171-
02(2009), Standard Guide for Defining the Performance of First Aid Providers in Occupational
Settings. CAP medical personnel are not provided supplemental malpractice insurance coverage,
and any care provided is at the members own risk. Though medical supplies and equipment are
not normally provided to responders, any reasonable supplies used on training or actual missions
may be submitted for reimbursement as long as sufficient justification is provided."

And more to the point:
Page 23:

"Note: Certain tasks and the associated training are expected to be provided by external agencies.
For example NIMS and First Aid training will normally be provided by another agency. "

In reading this, I don't take this that CAP Members Can't teach it, I take this that the program/Provider of the training has to come from elsewhere.  Meaning that a CAP member can teach it, but they have to use an OSHA acceptable curriculum provided elsewhere, that CAP shouldn't can their own program.

They use the NIMS example...as provided by another agency.  This would be FEMA, but we have CAP members that teach this all the time but the classes are taught to FEMA requirements. 

The Ironic item is that OSHA doesn't require a canned CPR/First Aid Program or even professional instructors, they only require a reasonable qualified "layperson" to teach it.  I think the best practice is to used the canned program but OSHA doesn't require it. 

[AirDX]

The Ironic item is that OSHA doesn't require a canned CPR/First Aid Program or even professional instructors, they only require a reasonable qualified "layperson" to teach it.  I think the best practice is to used the canned program but OSHA doesn't require it. 

That's industry-dependent. The construction industry requires training that results in a card "from the U.S. Bureau of Mines, the American Red Cross, or equivalent", in my case the equivalent being AHA. Ref: 29 CFR 1926.50(c). I get paid to teach AHA classes to construction folks.

I also teach FA/CPR and Stop the Bleed to CAP folks. Wearing a CAP uniform. The cards and certificates say AHA or ACS on them, that's the important part. I've never heard this argument except here... but that's like most of the "how many angels can dance on a Little L-Per" arguments that occur. Maybe that's why forum activity is pretty much nil.

[SARDOC]

The Ironic item is that OSHA doesn't require a canned CPR/First Aid Program or even professional instructors, they only require a reasonable qualified "layperson" to teach it.  I think the best practice is to used the canned program but OSHA doesn't require it. 

That's industry-dependent. The construction industry requires training that results in a card "from the U.S. Bureau of Mines, the American Red Cross, or equivalent", in my case the equivalent being AHA. Ref: 29 CFR 1926.50(c). I get paid to teach AHA classes to construction folks.

I also teach FA/CPR and Stop the Bleed to CAP folks. Wearing a CAP uniform. The cards and certificates say AHA or ACS on them, that's the important part. I've never heard this argument except here... but that's like most of the "how many angels can dance on a Little L-Per" arguments that occur. Maybe that's why forum activity is pretty much nil.

I'll say most industries will have a common accepted practice or their own internal standards which is fine as long as it meets or exceeds the OSHA Standard.  The Bureau of Mines, while federal isn't OSHA.  OSHA standards vary from the oddly specific to the down right obtuse.  This standard is the latter.    My point was that CAP adopted the OSHA Standard which doesn't require it. I'm sure it's an organizational oversight and that we should adopt a more stringent standard, or this was done deliberately as the absolute minimum required since we are not in the business of providing medical care and this is the cheapest we can get away with. When I worked as an occupational Safety consultant, I'd always recommend it, although Employers insisted it wasn't required, and technically, they were correct, it doesn't make it "right" though.

I've also worked healthcare for a number of years both pre-hospital and in-facility care and have also taught all these courses.  That being said, I worked for a Fire/EMS Agency, that didn't require us to maintain BLS Certification per the state code.  If you wanted to renew your National Registry EMT Certification it was essential, but if you only wanted to recertify your state certification you didn't need it.  The department wouldn't pay for it because it wasn't a required part of your job and you'd have to get it on your own if you wanted it.  The only reason I maintained my BLS, ACLS and PALS was because I also worked as an instructor in these.  I know many paramedics that did not maintain these certs because the employer wouldn't pay for the course or pay them to go.